OT: Manny Hurt Already???

[Bondsgloves]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

See post #22. But watch the "elderly" reference. There's a hint of sensitivity in the air. I agree with your post on all counts though. I believe I'll drift along though as there is a preponderance of members being set in their ways, which is fine and dandy.

No personal attacks intended. This is the great thing about baseball. We are all passionate about teams and players we follow. People talk crap about ither players such as Bonds, ARod, and Manny because they are all great players. We really should only judge them for what they do on the field. Off the field they are no better than any of us. Frankly, off the field I wouldn't want to work, hangout, or have dinner with any of them. Its unfortunate we have to bring up performance enhancing drugs. I played high school ball with a couple current major leaguers (I won't name names) and know for fact they have taken PED's. These players you would swear have not taken anything, based on there performance, numbers, and just the way they physically look. So you can't say a guy is or isn't or has and hasn't no matter what you believe.

[gameused]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Bobby,

Comparing Bonds to Manny is not even close. Barry is older and was at the tail end of his career. Manny quit on his team, pushed an elderly Man down, is a one dimensional player. Manny couldn't carry Barry' jock at any time in his career. How many Gold Gloves, MVP's, Stolen Bases, Walks, and the list goes on. If you believe Manny has not taken any performance enhancings drugs, its just a matter of time until the truth comes out. Manny is one dimensional and has always been one dimensional.

Your right, comparing Manny to Bonds is not even close, Bonds took steroids, Manny did not and don't go accusing Manny of taking steroids unless you have some hard evidence to back up your claim.

Manny was a born hitter, hard work, made him one of the best in the game.

Just remember Barry won most or all of those awards while on the juice, gold gloves, MVP's SB's. etc, doesn't mean crap, he was juicin, big time!

Don't blame age on the fact that Barry was not picked up, Barry's a has been, and if he makes it into the hall all his records with have a big fat asterisk *

[Bondsgloves]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Your right, comparing Manny to Bonds is not even close, Bonds took steroids, Manny did not and don't go accusing Manny of taking steroids unless you have some hard evidence to back up your claim.

Manny was a born hitter, hard work, made him one of the best in the game.

Just remember Barry won most or all of those awards while on the juice, gold gloves, MVP's SB's. etc, doesn't mean crap, he was juicin, big time!

Don't blame age on the fact that Barry was not picked up, Barry's a has been, and if he makes it into the hall all his records with have a big fat asterisk *

Obviously you weren't following the game from 1986-1999.Thats when Barry one all of his gold gloves, 40/40, 3 mvps,. How many MVP's does Manny have, Gold Gloves, Stolen Bases. I heard the same crap from Arod Fans, they talkin a heck of a lot now. Manny can't play the field and is fat A-- wouldn't steel a base unless a cheeseburger was waiting on second. If he was such a hard worker he should of taught himself how to catch a baseball. I just hope you respond with a post when his name comes up. Do you think Manny is better than Arod? Ask anyone who has played the game who they think is a better player. No matter what anyone says you'll say how great Manny is. No doubt he's a great hitter, but not even the Giants were intrested. Will Clark said the Giants don't need him he's one dimensional and clogs the bases. He also said Barry was the best player he had ever seen play the game.

[xpress34]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

I think calling a guy a "cancer" because a few of his teammates had differences with his personality and how he expressed himself....is a bit low class.

EVERONE here has most likely been touched by this dreadful disease, either via a family member or close friend. To equate an incorrigible baseball player to a "cancer" is a bit extreme and in extremely bad taste, and should be left to be uttered by a brainless relief pitcher who does a silly little dance on his spare time from throwing.......NOT POSTERS here trying to have "intelligent conversations".

You have the audacity to chastise me after you insult Manny yourself, while maintaining I can't call anyone here "low class" for lowering themselves to the moniker of "cancer" against a baseball player for a "different personality"?

Suicide -

1st, let my make this perfectly clear - I am NOT a fan of the Red Sox - I personally depise ManRam for lots of reasons... the main one is here:

Based on your statement above, I would still have to call Manny a CANCER - as a human being... while other team mates (making a LOT less money) have gone out of their way to help the under privileged and to visit CANCER patients at the hospital, etc - Manny 'The Self Involved' couldn't even be bothered to walk 60 F%^$#N' feet to say hello to Make a Wish Kids who were brought to visit the team.

The guy is a HELL of a HITTER but a WASTE of SPACE as a Human Being.

Whether you like it or not, it's my .02 worth.

Good luck with him in L.A. this year... honestly, I really do think this 'issue' is a harbinger of the things to come...

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

There is a reason why every team passed on him!

This is an inaccurate statement.

"Other" teams passed on him because they knew it would be futile to make an offer......because it would have simply been one-up'ed or topped immediately by the Dodgers. They made it clear that it was their number one priority to resign Manny in the offseason.

Hence......no one wasted their time.

[gameused]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Obviously you weren't following the game from 1986-1999.Thats when Barry one all of his gold gloves, 40/40, 3 mvps,. How do you know Barry was not juicing during those early years?

How many MVP's does Manny have, Gold Gloves, Stolen Bases. How Many World Series rings does Barry have "0", Nada, Zilch! Manny has two so far!

I heard the same crap from Arod Fans, they talkin a heck of a lot now. Like I said earlier, unless you have some hard evidence, he's never taken steroids!

Manny can't play the field and is fat A-- wouldn't steel a base unless a cheeseburger was waiting on second. Learn how to spell, it's "steal" a base, not steel!

If he was such a hard worker he should of taught himself how to catch a baseball. I just hope you respond with a post when his name comes up. You should reword that, "if" his name comes up!

Do you think Manny is better than Arod? Ask anyone who has played the game who they think is a better player. Arod is a better overall player, but Arod chokes in the playoffs, Manny's the man in the playoffs!

No matter what anyone says you'll say how great Manny is. No doubt he's a great hitter, That's the first thing you got right! but not even the Giants were intrested. The Giants wanted him and you know it, be a man and admit it, they just cannot afford him!

Will Clark said the Giants don't need him he's one dimensional and clogs the bases. Looks like Will got it wrong, Manny clears the bases! He also said Barry was the best player he had ever seen play the game. Did Will say that before or after he found out Bonds was on the juice?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Suicide, I don't take offense, really! Cancer is a strong word, I agree. My mother died of cancer, as did my aunt, as did my best friend at 50. I tread lightly around the memory of what pain that brought. I believe the word has a meaning here derivative of the nature of Ramirez' transgressions involving his teammates, ie a festering presence that, left untreated and intact, could potentially overwhelm the host. So, it needed to be excised. This, to me, pretty much jibes with what transpired in Boston.

I do not presume to speak for all Boston fans, but I can confidently state that, in my experience as a lifelong fan (I'm 49) and based on many conversations with, postings in the Boston papers by, and columns written by, fans and the media, this individual was one of the most tradition-wrecking players to ever wear the uni. Dwight Evans wore #24 for the Sox from 1972-1990 and to this day, thousands of true Sox fans rue the day that the number 24 was ever issued to the likes of Ramirez. Evans never hit like Ramirez, but he did earn 8 gold gloves and he did walk the walk. Ramirez can HIT LIKE NO ONE ELSE, but he cannot run, he cannot field, he does not play hurt (even imaginarily hurt), he cannot/will not listen to his coaches and management, cannot and will not recognize charitable organizations or the average fan, physically assaulted an elderly Sox employee, I could go on and on......and he gleefully laughs his way along with brainless abandon. I fail to recognize why a player with just ONE tangible skill can reap the financial rewards and adulation of so many when he is bereft of so many other important skills and attributes.

I in no way aim to disparage anyone's chosen hero in the best game in sports. If you like Ramirez, I salute you and wish you happy sailing. It doesn't affect my life who roots for him or how he does or doesn't for LA. Please just trust the certainty that Boston, for the overwhelming most part, does not miss him and it is not sour grapes or a feeling of being jilted, so to speak. If he could not hit a ball he would be nailing pallets together in a warehouse somewhere, and I hope I am not offending anyone by saying that, as that is part of my job. I can't hit a baseball.

Suicide Squeeze, peace and keep loving the game.

And same to you brother. After all, we all share a common interest here. And I honestly like to hear everyone's opinions too. It what makes this all interesting.

To all concerned.....look, I don't condone anything a ballplayer does that's bad, and without knowing all the details, I will be the first to say I would wholeheartedly agree that a ballplayer that shows no humility when in the presence of ill children (or adults for that matter) and won't even approach them and share a moment with them to add some light to their lives......well, that's pathetic.

But aren't we fans of players for what they do on the field, and for our team? Does the off-field character issue come up when their time for vote comes for election into the Hall? I would say it does, and it should. But going down the slippery path of trying to guage the greatness of a player because of a few "off-field" blunders.....maybe because the guy isn't well educated, maybe he's just super private and wasn't exposed to everything he should have been exposed to as a young child to help develope his social skills.....I mean this argument of reasoning out why a guy does ill-conceived things could go on forever. Keep it on the field, please!

Manny is no model citizen to you guys who beat him up, but the dude can rake like no other, and as mentioned, he is money when it counts the most for his team...in the play-offs and world series.

After all, that's what he's being paid for. And quite frankly, Manny is one of the VERY FEW who has always delivered for his paychecks. So he has made a lot of people angry for holding onto his belief he is worth one of the top paychecks in the game.

For the dodgers.....

.397 average
53 RBI in 53 games
17 homers in three months.....and the biggest against their first place rival in a game for first place......against their rivals ACE PITCHER......

.511 in the post season
3 more post season homers (ALL-TIME Major league record and growing in that category...)

Are you guys kidding me? He's GOLD.....if you can just get by the baggy uni and dreadlocks. He isn't paid to do the other stuff....the extra-ciricular stuff......he's paid to WIN. And he is one of THE best in the game at doing just that.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Manny is already showing this was a bad investment... The Dodgers will realize soon enough just how bad!

And then there is Adam Dunn whom they passed over, hitting 2 HRS so far for USA...

Skyking......Did Adam Dunn do anything to propel the Diamondbacks into the play-offs last year?

Have you taken a gander at Adam Dunn's strikeout ratio....or the fact that (I believe) he led the league in that category last year, striking out 200 times (give or take a couple....I haven't checked the stats....not that important). My point is......Manny is FAR and away a more dangerous hitter than Adam Dunn, so I believe the Dodgers made the only move they could to insure a chance at the big dance this year.

So here's to a good season for all of our teams! Obviously none of us knows how it will play out.....but isn't that the fun in all of it....the chase?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Obviously you weren't following the game from 1986-1999.Thats when Barry one all of his gold gloves, 40/40, 3 mvps,. How many MVP's does Manny have, Gold Gloves, Stolen Bases. I heard the same crap from Arod Fans, they talkin a heck of a lot now. Manny can't play the field and is fat A-- wouldn't steel a base unless a cheeseburger was waiting on second. If he was such a hard worker he should of taught himself how to catch a baseball. I just hope you respond with a post when his name comes up. Do you think Manny is better than Arod? Ask anyone who has played the game who they think is a better player. No matter what anyone says you'll say how great Manny is. No doubt he's a great hitter, but not even the Giants were intrested. Will Clark said the Giants don't need him he's one dimensional and clogs the bases. He also said Barry was the best player he had ever seen play the game.

Yeah......ok to all the accolades to Bonds.

But Bondsgloves, Barry thumbed his nose NOT just to his fans...NOT just to his teammates....NOT just to anything resembling establishment like charities for children with cancer (ask Rob Dibble about THAT one!)...... but ultimately to the game of baseball when he disgraced it with his conscious choice to go down the cheating route with steroids. He did it because he just couldn't stand it that McGwire and Sosa were getting all the attention. He disgraced the game at whatever cost.....he just didn't care, as long as he was the number one guy!

I'm sorry, I just can't stand cheaters...especially when they are so shameless about it. Same goes for Clemens.....a total disgrace. And to anyone who cares, I don't believe for ONE minute that A-rod's only years of use were 2001-2003 with the Rangers. It probably started in 1998, and continued until at LEAST 2005, IMHO. Check out the "jump" in his power numbers. It will be interesting to see if his "pace" falls off now.

[eisenreich8]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Suicide, we're finding common ground! I wish it were possible to have a beer with you and spend hours on this stuff.

I am trying to focus the proper amount of attention on the on-field aspects of a player's career. The PED's, administered off the field, are an exception. But I will tell you one notable and exceptional quality of Manny's I have always admired. He shows absolutely no fear at the plate, he looks like he's about as stressed out as if he were playing in a picnic whiffleball game, and you will not see him do the deep breathing/quick expulsion of air like you will with Youkilis, and many others. Mike Lowell is another, J.D. Drew is another. They are so composed. (Sorry if I am filling up my post with Sox names, but they are my best references).

I am also trying to get over his Boston years. His bat was huge and the rest is, well, history. Enjoy the upcoming season and I hope he comes through for you and the Dodgers. Best to ye........

[Bondsgloves]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Just a little something to think about. Has Canseco been wrong yet?

Canseco: More big names on steroids list

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• 06:41 AM ET 04.06
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Jose Canseco laughs and offers his theory. A-Rod was exposed only when his name was leaked from a list of 104 major leaguers who in a 2003 test showed up positive for steroids. Because the test was anonymous, those names were not supposed to be made public. But in Canseco's mind, baseball's power brokers know who is on it: players he is sure will be seen as toxic if the truth comes out. He says this, despite the fact that A-Rod isn't being treated as toxic, nor are other players who were caught up in the steroid scandal but publicly apologized, including Miguel Tejada, starting shortstop for the Houston Astros, and Andy Pettitte, a starting pitcher with the New York Yankees. Why didn't Manny Ramirez get a long-term deal? Canseco asks. Why were owners gun-shy about signing arguably the game's best hitter? Never mind that Ramirez was asking for a mega-deal at age 36. Or that he was negotiating in a sickly economy, while weighed down by the heavy baggage of a surly reputation. Canseco will have none of it. To Canseco, the drawn-out negotiation, the lack of a long-term deal, the lack of interest all raise red flags, and so he tells the Bovard crowd that Ramirez's "name is most likely, 90%," on the list. Canseco admits later that he has no way of knowing. But it makes sense to him, so he threw it out there -- kaboom! -- swinging for the fences, still.
Los Angeles Times

[Bondsgloves]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Your right, comparing Manny to Bonds is not even close, Bonds took steroids, Manny did not and don't go accusing Manny of taking steroids unless you have some hard evidence to back up your claim.

Manny was a born hitter, hard work, made him one of the best in the game.

Just remember Barry won most or all of those awards while on the juice, gold gloves, MVP's SB's. etc, doesn't mean crap, he was juicin, big time!

Don't blame age on the fact that Barry was not picked up, Barry's a has been, and if he makes it into the hall all his records with have a big fat asterisk *

What now? Your awfully quiet?

[Bondsgloves]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

I try to stay out of these worthless discussions, that are a complete waste of my time and energy.

Anyway, I had to laugh when I saw Bondsgloves post: "There is a reason why every team passed on him!"

At least one team, the Dodgers were interested in Manny, unlike your man Barry Bonds that was passed on by every single MLB team for the past two seasons, and by the way, Manny is going to the hall of fame as one of the greatest right handed hitters in the game ever and the man is absolutely money in the playoffs and World Series and remember he did not take performance enhancing drugs like your man Barry Bonds did!

Bobby

Hey Bobby,

You were right on! He sure is going to the Hall and remember he did not take PED's.

[gameused]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Hey Dan,

Guess what I'm having for dinner tonight?

Bobby

[Bondsgloves]

Re: OT: Manny Hurt Already???

Hey Dan,

Guess what I'm having for dinner tonight?

Bobby

It is all good. you are true fan... Nothing personal...On the bright side you may pick up more Manny stuff at a much better price, I had the same experience with Bonds items.

Dan