Yankees 2009

[markize]

Re: Yankees 2009

Mark:

I don't rag on what the Yankees pay their players. In fact, if the Orioles were in a position to do what the Yankees do and did not do it I would be furious. That being said, I think the rules stink and MLB needs to do something about it. It is just like in any other sport. Jerry Jones makes infinitely more money as the Cowboys owner than the owners of the Seahawks but he cannot just go out and outspend the whole league in an effort to win the Super Bowl. That is how it should be and it should not be in the owners hands to police this it should be mandated by MLB.

My point is, if you are in a position to win now, you should go for it. The window normally quickly closes for every team. If I have prospects in the minors that I can trade today to bring in a player or two that might put me over the top to win today, I make that move in a second. I am not saying dump the whole farm to do this but one example is a difference maker like Santana that might have put the Yanks over the top.

You and I would probably disagree on How they are spending that money today but I don't fault them for taking advantage of a flawed system but the system needs changed.

Brett,

Actually, I would prefer they get more value from farm guys other than trade bait. I gave the example in another post about Shelley Duncan at first base instead of dropping buckets of $$ on Teixeira. To me, he has a big upside, and is a small hit on the payroll. I guess I just think the Yankees make the $$ and are spending the best way see it. Is the system flawed, maybe, but look at it from a game used perspective: should the amount of money you make exclude you from buying more (or higher priced gamers), or spending it on what you feel is best to your collection? It's the same with the Yankees, they take in more than other teams, and spend it on the best possible "gamers" they can. The irony is that, unlike many peoples ideas, money obviously doesn't buy championships. If it did, the Yankees would have a lot more than 26 WS rings. In the end, the game gets played on the field.

Mark

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

brett,

i was with you the whole way till you got to the final sentence hi-lighted in bold and then you crapped all over your own points. why bother talking about prospects, and farm systems, and ragging on what the Yankees pay their players? the point of a farm system is to develop players for TOMORROW, right? the Yankees are trying to win TODAY, by paying for players they feel can help them NOW. I agree Wieters looks to be a great player of the FUTURE, but he hasnt played a single game yet, so how is he helping NOW?

mark

Mark:

I don't rag on what the Yankees pay their players. In fact, if the Orioles were in a position to do what the Yankees do and did not do it I would be furious. That being said, I think the rules stink and MLB needs to do something about it. It is just like in any other sport. Jerry Jones makes infinitely more money as the Cowboys owner than the owners of the Seahawks but he cannot just go out and outspend the whole league in an effort to win the Super Bowl. That is how it should be and it should not be in the owners hands to police this it should be mandated by MLB.

My point is, if you are in a position to win now, you should go for it. The window normally quickly closes for every team. If I have prospects in the minors that I can trade today to bring in a player or two that might put me over the top to win today, I make that move in a second. I am not saying dump the whole farm to do this but one example is a difference maker like Santana that might have put the Yanks over the top.

You and I would probably disagree on How they are spending that money today but I don't fault them for taking advantage of a flawed system but the system needs changed.

[markize]

Re: Yankees 2009

I know it's early yet, small sample size, blah blah blah...but the Yankee$ losing is always something that's going to make my day.
Brian Ca$hman might be the worst GM in baseball. He has more money to play with than any other GM, and this is the best he can do? Nearly half a billion dollars committed to free agents last off season, and this is the best he can do?
And before the usual suspects can start their "oooh, but the Orioles suck worse than we do" chorus...take a look at the Orioles payroll vs the Yankee$. Then take a look at what's in the pitching pipeline for the Orioles vs the Yankee$. Then compare the two teams outfields. Then see if you can tell me with a straight face that you'd rather be the Yankee$ than the Orioles...in any respect other than revenues.
Yeah, our starters mostly suck, just like yours do. But we have about $75 invested in each of 'em, so that when the time comes to kick 'em to the curb, it's not going to hurt much.
Tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...tha Yankee$ lose...and the giant freakin' lounge chairs in the uber-expensive seats are already empty.
Sweet. Glorious, beautiful and sweet.

mark,

yes, with a straight face, i would take the Yankees over the Borioles any day. here is a breakdown of the last 10 years that may help you out:

year team record games back
--------------------------------
1999 NYY 98-64 .605 0
1999 BAL 78-84 .481 20
--------------------------------
2000 NYY 87-74 .540 0
2000 BAL 74-88 .457 13.5
--------------------------------
2001 NYY 95-65 .594 0
2001 BAL 63-98 .391 32.5
-------------------------------
2002 NYY 103-58 .640 0
2002 BAL 67-95 .414 36.5
------------------------------
2003 NYY 101-61 .623 0
2003 BAL 71-91 .438 30
-------------------------------
2004 NYY 101-61 .623 0
2004 BAL 70-84 .481 23
-------------------------------
2005 NYY 95-67 .586 0
2005 BAL 74-88 .457 21
-------------------------------
2006 NYY 97-65 .599 0
2006 BAL 70-92 .432 27
-------------------------------
2007 NYY 94-68 .580 2
2007 BAL 69-93 .426 27
-------------------------------
2008 NYY 89-73 .549 8
2008 BAL 68-93 .422 28.5

ok, its a bit sloppy, but i think you get the point. the orioles have NOT played over .500 ball in the last 10 seasons. in that time, the yankees have won 8 division championships, and have won 2 of 4 WS titles. the highest win total by the orioles was 78, and they were still 20 games out of first. cry all you want about what the Yankees pay in salaries, but the comparison between the orioles and Yankees isnt even close.

let me ask one final question....mark, if you make $100,000 a year now, and had the chance to make $200,000 would you take it? i'm sure the answer is YES. so you fit right in with the Yankees! welcome home!!

mark

[markize]

Re: Yankees 2009

Tim, the piont is, that the Yankees weakness has been pitching depth the last ten years. That is why they are not consistently winning. Great pitching always beats great hitting. While their lineup has been loaded for the last 15 years, their pitching has been shaky at best. If I could have gotten Santana for Hughes and Kennedy I would have made that deal in a minute. Who cares about possible future success. How many minor league stars end up being major league busts. If I had a chance to pick up one of the top five pitchers in baseball two years ago for future prospects I would have pulled that trigger. Fans do not care about tomorrow they want results today. This is particularly true in New York. Even if Hughes and some of these other guys develop you are going to have a major problem in about two or three years when virtually every position player you have is well past their prime. Posada, Jeter, Matsui, AROD, Damon, are all aging quickly. You play to win now not tomorrow.

brett,

i was with you the whole way till you got to the final sentence hi-lighted in bold and then you crapped all over your own points. why bother talking about prospects, and farm systems, and ragging on what the Yankees pay their players? the point of a farm system is to develop players for TOMORROW, right? the Yankees are trying to win TODAY, by paying for players they feel can help them NOW. I agree Wieters looks to be a great player of the FUTURE, but he hasnt played a single game yet, so how is he helping NOW?

mark

[3arod13]

Re: Yankees 2009

Won't be long before they're saying....HE'S BAAACCKK!
Yankees 3B Alex Rodriguez (right hip surgery) took 75 swings and hit several long homers during his third consecutive day of batting practice in Florida. Rodriguez, expected to rejoin the team by May 15, also took grounders on the infield dirt for the first time and increased the intensity of his running program. …

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

I will give you Kennedy, though he has been lights out again thus far in the minors. We'll see if his mechanical adjustments help should he return to the Majors. However, there is NO way that the top brass has lost patience with Hughes. He is a stud pitcher and a future ace. It's unbelievable that you could say that Hughes was unable to get anyone out at the Major League level - in 2006 as a 19 year old, Hughes took 2 no hitters into the 6th and 8th innings before being injured in his second no hit bid. Last year he was also injured and therefore it's not really fair to use those numbers.

I'm not trying to downplay the Orioles' system, but I don't think it's fair to say that Yankees' cupboard is bare either, particularly since Hughes, Kennedy and Joba no longer qualify for the BA lists yet are all still "prospects" per say. I know that BA rankings don't correspond to Major League success but they do make for more ease in comparisons. By putting your Oriole prospects in the discussions, you have to mention the Yankees' Austin Jackson at #36 and Jesus Montero at #38, along with Andrew Brackman. Montero may have the best shot to be one of the Latin American position players to make an impact at the Major League level since he's likely Posada's successor should he stay at catcher.

Tim

Tim, the piont is, that the Yankees weakness has been pitching depth the last ten years. That is why they are not consistently winning. Great pitching always beats great hitting. While their lineup has been loaded for the last 15 years, their pitching has been shaky at best. If I could have gotten Santana for Hughes and Kennedy I would have made that deal in a minute. Who cares about possible future success. How many minor league stars end up being major league busts. If I had a chance to pick up one of the top five pitchers in baseball two years ago for future prospects I would have pulled that trigger. Fans do not care about tomorrow they want results today. This is particularly true in New York. Even if Hughes and some of these other guys develop you are going to have a major problem in about two or three years when virtually every position player you have is well past their prime. Posada, Jeter, Matsui, AROD, Damon, are all aging quickly. You play to win now not tomorrow.

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

suicide,
One other team made a offer to CC and it was no where near what he wanted.

[stkmtimo]

Re: Yankees 2009

BTW, I know this is anything of an exact science by of the Baseball America top 100 rated prospects, the Orioles have three in the top 25 Wieters #1, Tillman #22, Matusz #25, Arrieta #67. The Yankees only Pitcher on the entire list is Brackman at #92. I think the baseball masses are beginning to quickly lose their patience with Kennedy and Hughes. Like I said earlier, would I as a Yankee fan rather have had Santana a couple of years back with instant lights out 18 - 20 wins or the possibility that either Hughes or Kennedy turns into something down the road. I would have made that trade in a heartbeat. As of right now, when it comes to pitching, I would take the Orioles minor leaguers easily given the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to get anybody out at the major league level. The other two guys on the Yankee list. I am sure their high school coach remembers their name the rest of America, not so sure.

I will give you Kennedy, though he has been lights out again thus far in the minors. We'll see if his mechanical adjustments help should he return to the Majors. However, there is NO way that the top brass has lost patience with Hughes. He is a stud pitcher and a future ace. It's unbelievable that you could say that Hughes was unable to get anyone out at the Major League level - in 2006 as a 19 year old, Hughes took 2 no hitters into the 6th and 8th innings before being injured in his second no hit bid. Last year he was also injured and therefore it's not really fair to use those numbers.

I'm not trying to downplay the Orioles' system, but I don't think it's fair to say that Yankees' cupboard is bare either, particularly since Hughes, Kennedy and Joba no longer qualify for the BA lists yet are all still "prospects" per say. I know that BA rankings don't correspond to Major League success but they do make for more ease in comparisons. By putting your Oriole prospects in the discussions, you have to mention the Yankees' Austin Jackson at #36 and Jesus Montero at #38, along with Andrew Brackman. Montero may have the best shot to be one of the Latin American position players to make an impact at the Major League level since he's likely Posada's successor should he stay at catcher.

Tim

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Yankees 2009

The Yankees problems were very predictable....

You could feel the massive tension before the year even started. The expectations from the "stupid money" signings were bound to set these guys on their ears. Too much pressure does not lead to victories.

Tex was never a clutch player, so I don't know how throwing a dung-heap of money in his lap was supposed to change that. But hey, if you're team is down by, say 5 runs, and there is one guy on and Tex is up......Wow, he can sure send a homer deep into the seats alright....

And C.C reminded me of a good natured ball player, with Babe Ruth like tendancies....although far from his character and talent. Bath could hit a ball a country mile...it was exciting to watch this pitcher get his turn to bat.

So what does he do? He sells himself out to the highest paying AMERICAN LEAGUE team and loses many years of at-bats which would have surely produced a few all-time video clips to "wow!" the fans, all the while taking a lot of fun out of the game for himself. Couple that with the fact he's in the most butt-puckering uptight mess of an environment that "expects" wins, it's not condusive to promoting a winning cohesive clubhouse.

In short, the Yankees have a bunch of problems that sheer talent will overcome now and then, but in the end they fall short because this is not a team that will gel. A-Rod's return will lift them, but in the end, I believe this team will be the back-breaker in overpaid salaries, and it all starts to retreat from here. Having those empty seats behind home plate is sending a loud and clear message to the Steinbrenners. Financially, they never cared before. They do now.

Now they'll have no choice but to go back to the roots of baseball and develope within.


By the way.......HOW 'BOUT THOSE DODGERS!!!

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

I believe you missed acouple of the yankees top prospects that should be on that list, Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero.

You bet I sure did, Jackson is #36 & Montero #38. Aside from Wieters, I was mainly focusing on pitching however. Don't worry though, when it becomes apparent that one of the fab five don't work out, the Yanks will package a couple of these guys and trade them away if and this is a big IF they can find another really stupid contract say like the old Kevin Brown deal they took on to pick up. Quick everyone lets see what is the worst current deal out there for a MLB pitcher that the Yankees could pick up in a trade. Conditions they would be looking for would be a pitcher who is,
1. Constantly on the DL
2. A cancer in the clubhouse.
3. 40 years old or preferably 44 or above.
4. Has a salary of 18 million a year or above.
5. Has not won consistenly at the MLB level in at least five seasons.

Please submit all vialbe candidates to the attention of Brian Cashman immediately.

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

I believe you missed acouple of the yankees top prospects that should be on that list, Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

Well the yankees have to sign players because they can't get number one draft picks every year like the Rays did(need to come in last many years). Thats why they were able to put a good team out there.

Fair enough but that guarentees nothing. I am an Orioles fan and for twenty years they would constantly have one of the top ten draft picks and due to absolutely incompetent scouting, drafting, ownership take your pick they keep missing the boat every single year. Their minor league system was an abject disaster until about three or four years ago and that was putting it mildly.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Yankees 2009

Sure, I'll take a look at the pitching pipelines. The Yankees have Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Andrew Brackman, Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances. I would compare Hughes favorably with Matusz/Arrieta in the Orioles system and say that there is more pitching depth in the Yankees' farm system than in the Orioles'.

Comparing the outfields? Sure, the Orioles have a very talented and young outfield but that really doesn't mean all that much - you would do a lot better to compare the offensive lineup as a whole. Once A-Rod is back, there's no contest as to which team will have the better offense.

I can tell you with a straight face that I would rather be the Yankees than the Orioles. At least George Steinbrenner is willing to put up the money to create a successful team. There's plenty of baseball left to be played. We'll see who's there in the end.

Tim

BTW, I know this is anything of an exact science by of the Baseball America top 100 rated prospects, the Orioles have three in the top 25 Wieters #1, Tillman #22, Matusz #25, Arrieta #67. The Yankees only Pitcher on the entire list is Brackman at #92. I think the baseball masses are beginning to quickly lose their patience with Kennedy and Hughes. Like I said earlier, would I as a Yankee fan rather have had Santana a couple of years back with instant lights out 18 - 20 wins or the possibility that either Hughes or Kennedy turns into something down the road. I would have made that trade in a heartbeat. As of right now, when it comes to pitching, I would take the Orioles minor leaguers easily given the inability of Hughes and Kennedy to get anybody out at the major league level. The other two guys on the Yankee list. I am sure their high school coach remembers their name the rest of America, not so sure.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Yankees 2009

yanks maybe you should take a look at some of the ball players taken later in the draft. they were still getting picks in the first round just not as early. i would say that there have been just as many first round flops as there has been late round super stars.

[yanks12025]

Re: Yankees 2009

Well the yankees have to sign players because they can't get number one draft picks every year like the Rays did(need to come in last many years). Thats why they were able to put a good team out there.