OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

[OaklandAsFan]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

I would give the ball back for a signed bat from the player but I would add in something else IF it could happen for certain situations.


For example I really want a Holliday bat so if I caught a ball from a rook on the A's I would ask if there was any chance of getting a Holliday bat. If not no biggie deal is still good, If he tells me that he will see what Matt says and Matt says go for it awesome. I would never hold a ball for "ransom"

[David]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

My opinion (and this is my opinion not my absolute rule for everyone) is the ball is the fan's and he should either keep it or give it to the player. If he gives it to the player and gets a memento in return that's fine and dandy, but he should not not bargain for big stuff in return. It's like the last piece of birthday cake on your plate. It's fine for you to eat it and it's nice to give it to the person next to you, but its unseemly to haggle over it the damn thing at a crowded table.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

Man, I read these posts, and I just laugh at how everyone wants to impose their will on others. Obviously the honorable thing to do would be to give it back to the player because it was his first homer, and there is absolute sentimental value to the ball and event for the player. But, unfortunately for Mr. Coughlin, a fan who has been around the block a few times was the one who caught it. So, as the one who is in search of obtaining the ball, the player needs to suck it up and do as the fan asks. It's that simple.

Everyone obviously has a differnet opinion on how the fan handled it, but you can't blame him for trying to get something that he feels he can get in traded worth for it?

These baseball players think we're all wannabe's, folks. Don't get all soft on them and beat up a fan for handling the situation the way he saw fit? You don't have to agree with the way he handled it (or what he was asking for.....I sure didn't).....but the guy knew what he was doing.

Go to a signing show three or four times in your life. You will soon see that, although there are certainly great guys in the sports world, a lot of them aren't so great. In fact, they are downright selfish and rude, not caring one bit about what you want (ex. asking them to sign a bat on the sweet spot, only to see them turn the dang thing over to spite you and sign the back of the barrel as an example.....I've seen it done!).

Look, when a baseball is hit by a professional baseball player into the seats.....guess what folks? It ISN'T THE PLAYERS PROPERTY, the TEAMS PROPERTY, the ORGANIZATIONS PROPERTY.....it's the lucky FAN'S PROPERTY who caught the ball.

As such, the guy/girl who ends up with the piece of baseball memorabilia is entitled to do whatever they wish to do with it.

Keep that in mind before you stick a sword in the fan asking for something in return. He was a well-seasoned ballhawk.....this player just happened to hit it into the wrong seat....that's all.

Maybe as a "professional", he shouldn't have even gotten involved in the negotiations for the ball. He should have just let the organizations staff handle it. And if it didn't work out? Oh well...that's life. We as fans never get what we want all the time. He would have had to just live with the disappointment like the rest of us do.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

A bit off topic. I was at last night's Mariners Red Sox game and was near the guy who caught Ichiro's second home run. An official immediately went over to the guy and give him a team COA for the ball. It was a small card with Mariners logo and the official wrote in the info-- Ichiro, date, etc.

Now that is sweet!

Wouldn't it be great if all ballparks and management handled things that way?

In reality, they are preserving a little piece of "baseball history", which is a very respected move in our hobby.

I understand there are MLB authenticatorsat every game in every ballpark. Why won't they do this for every ball that ends up in the seats? Now, it appears they only do it if it's a MAJOR milestone homerun, or if it ends up in the bullpen or other area where someone in the organization gets ahold of it, who then has access to the MLB authenticator who placed the sticker on the ball. I for one would really like to see MLB step up their authentication of home run balls. They are an unimprovable achievement on an individual basis, representing a moment of "perfection" achieved by the player that also is a direct piece responsible for adding to his career stats. What more could a collector ask for in a game used item?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

Actually, Suicide_Squeeze, I feel foolish merely answering your juvenile and petty post. Against my better judgment, I will acknowledge you for the final time, ever, I might add, by stating that you should really get a grip.

If what I offered as MY personal and negative opinions against Manny Ramirez can possibly cause you to get a week's worth of tears on your tutu, I have boundless sympathy for you in that thin skin of yours.

My words, my opinions, my steadfast stubbornness to stick by all I said and all I may ever say. Feel free to bushwhack me all you like, I REALLY THINK IT'S COMICAL, how a week after a comment I made you can still not get it out of your head.

MANNY'S NEW TEAM now knows he's a cancer too! Maybe I am your personal cancer, Suicide_Squeeze. Go ahead, get it all out brother cuz you have the floor now. Here's a Kleenex.......

Actually, eisenreich8, I couldn't care less about Manny Ramirez anymore.

I was simply asking you a question about how'd you feel if this player turned out to be like him? But then you went off in a rant, completely avoiding my question (for obvious personal dramatic reasons).

By the way, it was not a baiting question. But it did serve my purpose well, as your response so obviously indicated.

I was pointing out how insincere you come off at times, at times taking the high road on subjects like a father of the cloth, while at other times putting on the baggy pants gang-garb and lowering yourself to the depths of a scum-filled gutter when you hate a subject or player. It just comes off as disingenuious......just thought you should realize that. You are at both ends of the extreme, is there never a middle ground? Maybe just think about it?

Take care, no offense intended towards you or your opinions....really.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

Eisenreich8, You should have gone with initial better judgement and not bothered to respond. Your posts, unlike some others here are always interesting and articulate, so why bother responding to chidish baiting? Why get caught up in another round of drama? After awhile, you learn how to navigate past the juvenile name calling posts and focus on the great majority of members here who really have something to offer the hobby.

Danny899,

I was just curious....What interesting and articulate comments, of course aside from the juvenile name calling you incorrectly refer to, caused you to feel possessed enough to want to post here? Did you just want to add your little "something" of relevance or insight that you have to, you know, ..... "offer the hobby"?

Because if so, wow, I must be void between the ears. I just can't find anything relevant in what you posted, partner?


Or......maybe.......was it sour grapes over this?....

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=24378&page=5

[eisenreich8]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

Eisenreich8, You should have gone with initial better judgement and not bothered to respond. Your posts, unlike some others here are always interesting and articulate, so why bother responding to chidish baiting? Why get caught up in another round of drama? After awhile, you learn how to navigate past the juvenile name calling posts and focus on the great majority of members here who really have something to offer the hobby.

You're right Danny, I was caught in a weak moment. Thank you for your complimentary words. I hope I remain in the good graces of the fellow members I hold in such high esteem and have charitable opinions of me, such as you have indicated.

I am on a new journey now. Thanks Danny.

[eisenreich8]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

My opinion (and this is my opinion not my absolute rule for everyone) is the ball is the fan's and he should either keep it or give it to the player. If he gives it to the player and gets a memento in return that's fine and dandy, but he should not not bargain for big stuff in return. It's like the last piece of birthday cake on your plate. It's fine for you to eat it and it's nice to give it to the person next to you, but its unseemly to haggle over it the damn thing at a crowded table.

BULLSEYE David!

[BergerKing22784]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

I would think as a teamate to this guy if I knew it was his first homerun and dude wanted a bat from me I'd do it... At the very least I'm making $250,000 a year (that is if I suck, and chances are if he wanted MY bat I must be a big deal such as Hanley is.) I would love to help out my teamate.... Guy asked for a bat that probably cost the team or player less than $100 bucks, Im not sure what bats cost for the player or team but I know its nothing thats going to break the bank of the team or the player who uses the bat....

If I was a well established player hitting a HR that is breaking a major record I'm sure I've got money that I could drop a million on a ball if I had to!

[xpress34]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

I understand there are MLB authenticatorsat every game in every ballpark. Why won't they do this for every ball that ends up in the seats? Now, it appears they only do it if it's a MAJOR milestone homerun, or if it ends up in the bullpen or other area where someone in the organization gets ahold of it, who then has access to the MLB authenticator who placed the sticker on the ball. I for one would really like to see MLB step up their authentication of home run balls. They are an unimprovable achievement on an individual basis, representing a moment of "perfection" achieved by the player that also is a direct piece responsible for adding to his career stats. What more could a collector ask for in a game used item?

Suicide -

Here is the 'flip' side to your statement... while I agree that having MLB Authenticators on site to Certify each ball, it's not always an exact science... When a fan catches a ball, unless someone near him can verify that he did NOT switch it with a BP ball (not all BP balls are marked Practice - many are GU from the day before that got tossed out), then it is based on giving the fan who caught it the benefit of the doubt.

The other issue is balls hit into BullPen or Center Field areas, etc - depending on the ballpark. If no one is warming up in the BullPen, it's a 'best guess' as to which ball is THE ball when they recover it as other GU or Game Prepped balls may very well be laying around the BullPen.

As far as Center Field - and this is based on what ACTUALLY happened at Coors Field the other day - it is againa BEST GUESS as they do not 'clean out' the Center Field area after BP.

Chris Iannetta hit a Grand Slam into the Center Field 'forrest' at Coors Field and an usher I know was the one sent to recover it - he was even on TV for a few minutes looking for it. When I asked him the next day, HIS comments were - "I found 'a' ball after 5 minutes of digging around, but MLB Authenticated it as 'the' ball. After the game they pulled about 5 more balls out of the area."

So again, it's a BEST GUESS effort in most cases for the Authenticators - but I do like that they are there to at least try to get the right item each time...

As far as the Ichiro Ball, that's a cool story - too bad the Rox don't do that... at the Thursday afternoon game at Coors Field, Ivan Rodriguez lost his bat into the crowd on a swinging third strike and the ushers checked to make sure the fan was okay, but I never saw anyone else go to his seat. How about having that Authenticated ON THE SPOT?

Just my .02

All the best -

Chris

[markize]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

I would think as a teamate to this guy if I knew it was his first homerun and dude wanted a bat from me I'd do it... At the very least I'm making $250,000 a year (that is if I suck, and chances are if he wanted MY bat I must be a big deal such as Hanley is.) I would love to help out my teamate.... Guy asked for a bat that probably cost the team or player less than $100 bucks, Im not sure what bats cost for the player or team but I know its nothing thats going to break the bank of the team or the player who uses the bat....

If I was a well established player hitting a HR that is breaking a major record I'm sure I've got money that I could drop a million on a ball if I had to!

i was just going to say the same thing. Ramirez made $1,168,000 between 2006-2008. im not sure what kind of bat he uses, or the secondary market value, but lets assume this: BMH posted somewhere that Jeter pays $65 for each bat he orderes. If the same is true for Ramirez, and he can sell it for $300 on the secondary market, he is losing $235. If he is a good guy, and a good teammate, he takes the hit for another players first dinger. I would think Ramirez would like to have his forst home run ball as well, and the excitement for a guy on his club, why not?

Maybe it was out of line for the ballhawk to ask for the bat, but why not? hell, he can ask Ramirez to knock up his girlfriend if he wants . Then there is the comment of Coughlin, "so are you gonna give me MY ball or what"? At no point in time was the ball ever his. the chain of ownership is as follows: 1. Rawlings 2. MLB 3. ballhawk. so the player was asking for something he had no rights to (the HR ball), just as the ballhawk was asking for something he had no rights to (Ramirez bat).

just my take on this mess.

Mark

[markize]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

i was just going to say the same thing. Ramirez made $1,168,000 between 2006-2008. im not sure what kind of bat he uses, or the secondary market value, but lets assume this: BMH posted somewhere that Jeter pays $65 for each bat he orderes. If the same is true for Ramirez, and he can sell it for $300 on the secondary market, he is losing $235. If he is a good guy, and a good teammate, he takes the hit for another players first dinger. I would think Ramirez would like to have his forst home run ball as well, and the excitement for a guy on his club, why not?

Maybe it was out of line for the ballhawk to ask for the bat, but why not? hell, he can ask Ramirez to knock up his girlfriend if he wants . Then there is the comment of Coughlin, "so are you gonna give me MY ball or what"? At no point in time was the ball ever his. the chain of ownership is as follows: 1. Rawlings 2. MLB 3. ballhawk. so the player was asking for something he had no rights to (the HR ball), just as the ballhawk was asking for something he had no rights to (Ramirez bat).

just my take on this mess.

Mark

...sorry about the typos. my typing fingers (thats my 2 index fingers) get ahead of me. it should have been.... $65 for each bat he orders. in addition, its ....like to have his first home run, not frost home run ball.

mark

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

i was just going to say the same thing. Ramirez made $1,168,000 between 2006-2008. im not sure what kind of bat he uses, or the secondary market value, but lets assume this: BMH posted somewhere that Jeter pays $65 for each bat he orderes. If the same is true for Ramirez, and he can sell it for $300 on the secondary market, he is losing $235. If he is a good guy, and a good teammate, he takes the hit for another players first dinger. I would think Ramirez would like to have his forst home run ball as well, and the excitement for a guy on his club, why not?

Maybe it was out of line for the ballhawk to ask for the bat, but why not? hell, he can ask Ramirez to knock up his girlfriend if he wants . Then there is the comment of Coughlin, "so are you gonna give me MY ball or what"? At no point in time was the ball ever his. the chain of ownership is as follows: 1. Rawlings 2. MLB 3. ballhawk. so the player was asking for something he had no rights to (the HR ball), just as the ballhawk was asking for something he had no rights to (Ramirez bat).

just my take on this mess.

Mark

That's a pretty darn good take, Mark.

And after all, let's face it, the players don't order their bats with the intentions of "reselling" for a profit. They order them to hit baseballs all over hell and creation during their careers. They must know, going in, that these bats are going to end up in a LOT of different hands by the time their careers are over. So what's one or two, here and there, to serve a teammate a great purpose? Isn't that what a good fellow teammate is about?

Like I said before, the ballhawk who got that homerun had been around the block for quite awhile.....he knows the game. The rookie that hit the homerun......well, that's another story. Just a typical jock all messed up with misunderstandings about "entitlement".....like most of them. He should be seriously happy he got his ball......but even more proud (and understanding of how lucky he is) to be in the big leagues, and should act accordingly.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

Suicide -

Here is the 'flip' side to your statement... while I agree that having MLB Authenticators on site to Certify each ball, it's not always an exact science... When a fan catches a ball, unless someone near him can verify that he did NOT switch it with a BP ball (not all BP balls are marked Practice - many are GU from the day before that got tossed out), then it is based on giving the fan who caught it the benefit of the doubt.

The other issue is balls hit into BullPen or Center Field areas, etc - depending on the ballpark. If no one is warming up in the BullPen, it's a 'best guess' as to which ball is THE ball when they recover it as other GU or Game Prepped balls may very well be laying around the BullPen.

As far as Center Field - and this is based on what ACTUALLY happened at Coors Field the other day - it is againa BEST GUESS as they do not 'clean out' the Center Field area after BP.

Chris Iannetta hit a Grand Slam into the Center Field 'forrest' at Coors Field and an usher I know was the one sent to recover it - he was even on TV for a few minutes looking for it. When I asked him the next day, HIS comments were - "I found 'a' ball after 5 minutes of digging around, but MLB Authenticated it as 'the' ball. After the game they pulled about 5 more balls out of the area."

So again, it's a BEST GUESS effort in most cases for the Authenticators - but I do like that they are there to at least try to get the right item each time...

As far as the Ichiro Ball, that's a cool story - too bad the Rox don't do that... at the Thursday afternoon game at Coors Field, Ivan Rodriguez lost his bat into the crowd on a swinging third strike and the ushers checked to make sure the fan was okay, but I never saw anyone else go to his seat. How about having that Authenticated ON THE SPOT?

Just my .02

All the best -

Chris

Chris,

Understood. But I've had this discussion before. Let me ask you this...

A guy in the outfield catches a homerun of, say, Albert Pujols. He knows he has the right ball, but he has another ball in his pocket that was launched into his section before the game begins and he ends up running it down. One home run ball, and one batting practice home run ball by a nobody player.

Here comes Mr. "Authenticator" from the bowels of the park, who can identify the fan who just caught Pujols home run ball because everyone saw in on instant replay three times on National TV. He is approaching the fan to ask him to present the ball so they can place the MLB Authentication sticker on it.

The guy who has the real Pujols home run ball and the batting practice ball gets a brainstorm idea: Give the guy the fake ball, and keep the Pujols homer for myself! Yeah....that's the ticket! Then I can sell the fake one for a heafty profit, and I'll have the real one!

Let me explain why there is nothing to gain with this argument, and it just doesn't make sense.

First off, no matter which ball he presents to the MLB Authenticator, if it ISN'T the correct ball, it will be identified and globally accepted to be the real ball from the moment the sticker is placed on it. EVEN if he keeps the real home run ball hit by Pujols, he would never be able to explain how he ended up with the correct one, being he had it (supposedly) to hand to the authenticator. In this ficticious example, his little plan would backfire in theory, and just doen't make any sense. Because if he tried to tell everyone what he did, who would believe he would be that stupid?

Furthermore, game-used baseballs are rubbed up with "Mississippi Mudd" before each game, and have a different appearance than batting practice baseballs. Yes some eventually get into the teams bags for B.P., and some eventually get into the hands of a fan, but by then are much more beat-up, scuffed up, have net marks on them, etc. Personally speaking, with a ton of experience in identifying and handling game-used baseballs, there is a significant difference in appearance that can be seen rather quickly. There is no way a major league pitcher is going to have a batting-practice type ball, scuffed and well used, with the labels all worn and badly beat up, and with unidentifyable markings on the ball not made while used during a regular ML baseball game.

In the other cases you mention Chris, if a home run ball goes into a part of the park where the "housekeeping" has been neglected in regards to retrieving BP baseballs, and it can't be positively determined which ball is which.....well, then I guess a piece of history is lost to the ages? You can't get em all, but one that goes directly into the hands of a fan, which is seen on National TV.....why not?

[David]

Re: OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball

The mentioned Ichiro home run ball had the added bonus of being photographed by an AP photographer and appeared on ESPN.com and Yahoo news. In fact I'm pictured in photo in the background.