AMI Auction: What Happened???

[cordovacollector]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

You know, hard not to interpret it that way. AMI doesn't pay the consignors but takes your money. That's theft, and your purchase really is essentially accepting stolen property.

I personally would not buy from any auction house operating as AMI presently is. I find it simply immoral if not illegal.

Sorry I didn't include this with my post. I was agreeing with Mvandor.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

You know, hard not to interpret it that way. AMI doesn't pay the consignors but takes your money. That's theft, and your purchase really is essentially accepting stolen property.

I personally would not buy from any auction house operating as AMI presently is. I find it simply immoral if not illegal.

I can't argue the immoral part, but it's not theft, and will never be proven to be if that point is brought up in court. This is an ongoing concern, and if the heat gets too high, they may declare bankruptcy.

It is not an uncommon event in business for one that is not being run properly to have cash flow issues. In laymen's terms, if your overhead is exceeding your receivables, it isn't going to be long until you close the doors. At what point do your activities become "criminal" in your attempts to keep the company running? That's an issue that the lawyers would have to prove in the event of a bankrupcy filing. Again, I ask, is that what you guys want? Is a legal battle, criminal or otherwise going to insure you get your money back?


Okay, look guys....

Then let me be the bad guy and ask the OBVIOUS question.....

WHY......WHY......WHY are there people that are consigning with them?



I would state the obvious, for an answer, and direct you to one of my earlier posts.....there are three main reasons, IMO.

While AMI was an ongoing successful auction house in their earlier days, they would of course pick up many consigments from a lot of people. But the word is out, and you can see the ill effects from the quantiy and quality drop-off in their last few auctions. Those days are obviously over. So, the few "suppliers" of good still coming their way are....whom, exactly?

Well.....one of them came banging on my freaking residential front door one day, and if you think I don't have a dog in this fight WITH YOU GUYS who are SEARCHING TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK.......think again.

Be adult here guys.....let the smoke clear on the fire's terms. DO NOT pour gasoline on it. Take it day by day, and get your money back!

Make THAT your number one priority.

Don't add to your troubles by spewing out angry suggestions that will only trip yourselves up in your efforts to recoup your consignment money. I can't be any more blunt than that. Don't DO IT.

It's OK for you to live with morals and integrity, but let's help eachother out here, not hurt ourselves by trying to appear like we wear white and have a glowing ring above our heads.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Getting back to the original post and point of this thread, Moustache Gang, I actually called to inquire about one item because it too did not show as sold. I was directed to Keita, who told me "we'll need to fix that one too". She told me it had in fact sold.

What I took from that was that they were having technical difficulties in the way their system was posting the results.

I find that hard to believe.....but that's just me. Why does it work on most of the items, but on a select few...there are technical difficulties?

Congrats on identifying one of the many lies. Like I've said many times, several of us have been exposing this stuff on GUU for years. It amazes me that people continue to do business with them. They have a rolodex of prepared/canned responses to questions, comments, and complaints. You just happened to get the "we'll need to fix that one too" response. If memory serves me correctly, that is "explanation" number 78 in the rolodex.

.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

If I need to cross my moral or ethical grounds to obtain something for my collection, well then it is time to sell the collection.

Bingo.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I can't argue the immoral part, but it's not theft, and will never be proven to be if that point is brought up in court.

Suicide, this is just too unbelievable for words ... even for your posts. Not trying to pick a fight (so please don't accuse me of taking off the gloves again), but am just blown away (i.e., disturbed) by some of your posts, and had to share my disbelief.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Suicide, this is just too unbelievable for words ... even for your posts. Not trying to pick a fight (so please don't accuse me of taking off the gloves again), but am just blown away (i.e., disturbed) by some of your posts, and had to share my disbelief.

THEFT: The act or an instance of stealing: larceny.

STEALING: To take from another without right or permission.

LARCENY: The taking, without claim of right or without permission, of the perconal goods of another.



When an item is consigned, there is a contract (form) signed giving the auction house the right to offer it with the consigners permission.

As the winner of an auction item, the winning bidder is claiming the right to take possession and thereby recieve ownership of it, with all due rights upon payment for the item.


Do we really need to go down this silly road?


Sarahsdad posted a cute little analogy, and I understand the anger and resentment towards the place of discussion. But we don't need to attack our fellow members here for what is obviously a mincing of words and an overly expressed amount of hatred for a company that has run amuck, do we?

I will repeat......I am on your sides, consigners and angry forum members.

I can't be any more clear than that.

[sportscentury]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

THEFT: The act or an instance of stealing: larceny.

STEALING: To take from another without right or permission.

LARCENY: The taking, without claim of right or without permission, of the perconal goods of another.



When an item is consigned, there is a contract (form) signed giving the auction house the right to offer it with the consigners permission.

As the winner of an auction item, the winning bidder is claiming the right to take possession and thereby recieve ownership of it, with all due rights upon payment for the item.


Do we really need to go down this silly road?


Sarahsdad posted a cute little analogy, and I understand the anger and resentment towards the place of discussion. But we don't need to attack our fellow members here for what is obviously a mincing of words and an overly expressed amount of hatred for a company that has run amuck, do we?

I will repeat......I am on your sides, consigners and angry forum members.

I can't be any more clear than that.

Let's leave legality to the side, particularly since we don't know what jurisdiction would govern, what crimes could legimately be charged, or what the exact language of said crimes is (though I appreciate your astute explication of the criminal law).

Leaving legality aside, you're okay with what you agree is immoral? This is the part of your previous post to which I was responding when I said I found it unbelievable and disturbing.

Suicide, I'm sure you'll find some way to dance around this. And, quite honestly, I find this discussion to be tiresome. So, I offer you the last word on the topic, at least with respect to our exchange. Have a great rest of the weekend (I mean this most genuinely, not at all sarcastically). I'll look forward to your commentary on tomorrow's Lakers/Magic game.

[sarahsdad]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Suicide Squeeze:

Last time I looked there was nothing illegal with coveting thy neighbors wife but it does cross a moral and ethical line. And this philosophy is consistent with your position on buying from deadbeat auction houses that continue to take consignments and conduct auctions but fail to pay their consignors. It may not be illegal but it does cross an ethical and moral line that you fail to see. Or maybe you do see it but you are OK with crossing it. What say you now?
sarahsdad

[sarahsdad]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Suicide Squeeze:
You defined Larceny, Theft and Stealing for us. Can you now please post the definition of Possession of Stolen Property?
sarahsdad

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

sportscentury,

OK.......I'll bite.

All I meant to say, was you guys need to understand....I hear what you are saying. I understand the anger and resentment and feelings towards sincerely not wanting to give this auction house a dime. But what you guys have been suggesting would become disaster for the consigners who are still owed a bunch of money. That self-fulfilling prophecy would spell disaster to the ones waiting for payment.

So am I "going back on my morals and lowering my level of integrity" by maybe possibly bidding on ONE single item that pops up in an AMI auction during a calendar year that may fill a void in my collection, because we all know they are struggling to stay afloat?

I just don't understand the thought of how that benefits the situation.

And AMI, whether you guys want to accept this as truth or not, is on ongoing concern.....they are an active business, in business. Suggesting they are "stealing" from consigners, and that anyone who bids is an accompliss to the "crime" (my words....."deadbeat" is what was referred to earlier).....is silly nonsense and inaccurate. If they were breaking laws doing these types of things, I assure you they would have been shut down by now.

As I stated before, nothing would make me happier than to see all of the consigners get paid up. But the cold hard reality is this: The only way that happens is if AMI can turn it around. Otherwise, someone along the way is going to left behind holding an empty bag.

Get after it, people, if they owe you money! In the meantime, I would suggest you hope AMI gets LOTS of fine consigments in the meantime from their "sources" who, I might add, you shouldn't give a s#!t about. Just pray they get BIG BUCKS and a LOT of bids on whatever is offered, and get your money back as fast as you can.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

Look....this all seems to have taken a bad turn, with bickering going on between us members who should be looking out for our own. It's silly.


I want to take a theoretical approach to this all, and I hope you can follow and understand where I'm coming from.

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT intended to be a suggestion that these are my opinions on the current situation at AMI. This is simply food for though to illicit deep thought on how to handle your emotional anger if you are one of the consigners owed money from an auction house and while you are trying to receive payment....ANY auction house.


Okay members, consider this ficticious scenario.....

-An auction house has (for whatever reason) fallen out of the good graces with the public.

-They owe a lot of money to a lot of different consigners, but are faultering in payments because they don't have the money.

-Furthermore, they are troubled with severe fall-offs of incoming consignments because the word is out, and consigners are reluctant to take the risk any longer.

-It has been common knowledge for some time, public common knowledge to anyone who makes even a feeble attempt to find it, that this particular auction house is in trouble.

-At this point, if you are owed money, you need to take action to insure you are in the "food line"....legally represented and noted as being a creditor to this ongoing concern.

-After doing so, and with all of the knowledge out there about this "company" and their problems, you are told by your attorney(s) to "relax and back off, we'll take it from here"...

-The auction house is still getting in consignments, just a lot less. It is harder to get quality items, and the transparency of what is being offered is tougher on the auction house, because there are so many fewer items being offered. Maybe, just maybe, since there is more of an opportunity now to research a potentially desireable piece, it is harder for the house to push through other "less desirable pieces with questionable authenticity", because they could be shown rather quickly as being "bad", further damaging the chances of the house staying in business.

-So, the most reasonable explanation left on where the consignments are coming from, would be either through personal contacts, aquaintences in the inner circles of the business, or flat up from "sweat shops" who are in the business of coming up with bad items they modify, tweak, or otherwise, to make look as authentic as possible, to offer to the unsuspecting public. Add to that, possible forgeries of certain items that are being offered, all to increase "receivables" to help keep the doors open.


Now I ask you......If you are owed thousands of dollars from this auction house, WHY are you concerned about the consigners who are feeding items to this (ficticious, in my example) auction house?

You shouldn't be.

Chances are, the items are bad, non-desirable, and fabrications/forgeries to mislead. Furthermore, these "consigners" should know better by now. You can't police EVERYONE in the hobby, even with your good intentions. And, if the stuff is "good", well that would be the best scenario! Then whoever wins it is happy, got an authentic item, and a consigner will get paid!

If the house makes enough profit in the longrun, they may ALL get paid.

If they eventually run out of gas and have to close the doors......who will be the last group of consigners who was feeding all of the items to this house that you guys are worried about at this point?

Think about it. The answers start to come a bit into focus....

Could it be the inner circle of associates that have been supplying questionable items for years?

If so, do you really care about these consigners?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

OK Administrators.......I see you removed my definition of "POSSESSION OF STOLEN PROPERTY"

My bad....thanks for understanding it was all in good humor, however...

[cordovacollector]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

But if they get "new" monies in, they would (hopefully) go to the new consignors and pay for ongoing expenses and overhead. I doubt enough new monies could be generated to pay the former consignors that were cheated in the past.

When a guy is digging a hole and suddenly finds he can't get out but you let him keep on digging, all he does is make a bigger hole that's harder to get out of. Perhaps kindest thing to do is close doors now and pay what they can to past consignors. And have the courts be sure they settle the resititution when they find other employ ... with the caveat that they can't be hole diggers again.

At least customers wouldn't have to worry if they were buying stolen goods or if their payments were going toward old debt and thus creating new consignors that won't be paid either. And former consignors wouldn't be offered "ponzi" schemes to pay past debt.

I think we've beaten this horse to death and it would be a kindness to close the thread. All have their opinions, and it serves no purpose to shout at the deaf.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

But if they get "new" monies in, they would (hopefully) go to the new consignors and pay for ongoing expenses and overhead. I doubt enough new monies could be generated to pay the former consignors that were cheated in the past.

When a guy is digging a hole and suddenly finds he can't get out but you let him keep on digging, all he does is make a bigger hole that's harder to get out of. Perhaps kindest thing to do is close doors now and pay what they can to past consignors. And have the courts be sure they settle the resititution when they find other employ ... with the caveat that they can't be hole diggers again.

At least customers wouldn't have to worry if they were buying stolen goods or if their payments were going toward old debt and thus creating new consignors that won't be paid either. And former consignors wouldn't be offered "ponzi" schemes to pay past debt.

I think we've beaten this horse to death and it would be a kindness to close the thread. All have their opinions, and it serves no purpose to shout at the deaf.

cordova,

Unfortunately I agree with you on all accounts.

It seems to be heading that way.

I just hope that the people owed all that money find a check in the mail one day from AMI for the whole amount...one way or the other. The whole thing is a mess, and it's terrible.

[sarahsdad]

Re: AMI Auction: What Happened???

I see now. Your bids are more of a philanthropic gesture towards your fellow collectors who have not been paid. Why didn't you say so? This whole misunderstanding could have been avoided.
sarahsdad