grey flannel is a joke

[suave1477]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

Justin,

You need to understand something, suave1477 asked at the end of his opinionated post "Am I missing something?"


Common sense was the first thing that came to my mind. He didn't even read the fact that you mentioned you bid on it, then asked for the letter which came two weeks after you won the item.

He also apparently has no idea on how to approach these auction items which require a bid by each and every person who wants to bid on it again after it goes into the "after hours" trading.....therefore it makes much more sense to bid on the item early, as close to after the auction starts as possible, so as more people bid on it, you can then make your mind up a lot easier if you want to bid on it later, or if it has already passed a point you feel is too much for it.

But like he seems to be prone to do, it's much easier for him to side with the position opposite the collector, and like in this instance, stand up for a schlockhouse like Grey Flannel, and spew out his version of the legalities of you placing a bid early on, then asking for some descripted back-up on the item, NEVER receiving it, then winning it (probably because everyone else who dug into it never received what they wanted either, so they passed). Yes, you may have made a small mistake by bidding at apoint too late in the early bidding, but you have absolute right to be pissed. What happened to you here was deceitful, IMO.

The C & D letter Sarahsdad was referring to had NOTHING to do with me placing a bid on an item in their auction. It was about getting me to shut up with my comments about their questionable items, the way they run their business, their business practices, Richard Russek himself, etc. It is completely unrelated to you, what has happened here, and the reasons you are now angry. I wish you luck in getting it resolved.

My two cents of advice to you is this: If you really feel you don't want to pay for it, simply tell them to keep it and relist it for you in their very next auction. That will keep you out of legal trouble since you did place a bid on it. Take care, and good luck with this nasty situation......one that continues to shopw the collecting community of the character and class of Grey Flannel, and how they choose to treat their clients who make the mistake of doing business with them......IMO.

Ok your response was lengthy so I will admit you lost me after a while.

I am not sure if you were referring to me lacking common sense???

You said I did not read that he bid on it??? I did not read that it came 2 weeks later???
Did you even read my response or were you typing blindly??
I brought up both cases in my initial response.

I did not side with anyone, i made my comment based on the original persons post and explained to him by bidding is a form of an agreement on a contract. So yes there are legalities to doing such things.

as for the +1 comment I am not sure if that is the other members way of agreeing with the lashing out, but if either one read the original post you would understand where I was coming from.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

Ok your response was lengthy so I will admit you lost me after a while.

I am not sure if you were referring to me lacking common sense???

You said I did not read that he bid on it??? I did not read that it came 2 weeks later???
Did you even read my response or were you typing blindly??
I brought up both cases in my initial response.

I did not side with anyone, i made my comment based on the original persons post and explained to him by bidding is a form of an agreement on a contract. So yes there are legalities to doing such things.

as for the +1 comment I am not sure if that is the other members way of agreeing with the lashing out, but if either one read the original post you would understand where I was coming from.

I saw where you were coming from. Is Grey Flannel a joke? Could be. Should they have sent the scan of the LOA sooner? Sure! But the fact is, the bid was placed knowing the rules. Why not wait until the letter has been read before placing the bid? THAT is common sense, IMO.

+1 for Suave, the bidder needs to take some responsibility here.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[mr.miracle]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

I saw where you were coming from. Is Grey Flannel a joke? Could be. Should they have sent the scan of the LOA sooner? Sure! But the fact is, the bid was placed knowing the rules. Why not wait until the letter has been read before placing the bid? THAT is common sense, IMO.

+1 for Suave, the bidder needs to take some responsibility here.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

I was in a similar situation with an auction house a number of years back. The auction house that I dealt with has had a somewhat spotty reputation over the past few years but be that as it may, I readily admit, I did not do my due diligence and made a mistake. I placed a bid based on the auction description of an LOA and subsequently found the LOA was not what it was reported to be with some discrepencies. I had placed a bid which then put me into a binding contract with the auction house as clearly stated in their rules. The bottom line is, do your homework and be as completely sure and positive about what you are bidding on prior to placing a bid. I learned from that lesson and at the end of the day I blame auction houses who do a lousy job writing descriptions and don't do their own homework putting suspect items into auctions but it falls back on the bidder to be absolutely certain regarding the bid before placing it. The rules are the rules and once you bid, you are often out of luck and out of options not to pay for the item.

In that regard, you cannot blame the auction house or auction houses as if they did not have some measure in place regarding the winning bid being a binding contract, how often would they be left holding the bag due to buyers remorse. Now if they are purposely being deceitful or misleading that is another story entirely but bottom line, don't bid until you have every possible document, fact, etc. completed on your part.

I personally search each auction as soon as I know they are going live. I will not even consider a bid in the auction unless I can see all of the documents, LOA's, etc. and then attempt to photo match, check with industry sources etc. and make sure I am completely comfortable with the item prior to placing a bid. That is just me but I have not had a problem in a number of years because of this personal approach.

[suave1477]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

Earlywynn and Mr. Miracle THANK YOU!!

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

I obtained an item from the most recent GF auction. Upon close inspection of the piece I had questions regarding the authentication and missing paperwork. My polite and cordial inquiries were never answered. I was very disappointed the company did not take the time to communicate with me.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

I was in a similar situation with an auction house a number of years back. The auction house that I dealt with has had a somewhat spotty reputation over the past few years but be that as it may, I readily admit, I did not do my due diligence and made a mistake. I placed a bid based on the auction description of an LOA and subsequently found the LOA was not what it was reported to be with some discrepencies. I had placed a bid which then put me into a binding contract with the auction house as clearly stated in their rules. The bottom line is, do your homework and be as completely sure and positive about what you are bidding on prior to placing a bid. I learned from that lesson and at the end of the day I blame auction houses who do a lousy job writing descriptions and don't do their own homework putting suspect items into auctions but it falls back on the bidder to be absolutely certain regarding the bid before placing it. The rules are the rules and once you bid, you are often out of luck and out of options not to pay for the item.

In that regard, you cannot blame the auction house or auction houses as if they did not have some measure in place regarding the winning bid being a binding contract, how often would they be left holding the bag due to buyers remorse. Now if they are purposely being deceitful or misleading that is another story entirely but bottom line, don't bid until you have every possible document, fact, etc. completed on your part.

I personally search each auction as soon as I know they are going live. I will not even consider a bid in the auction unless I can see all of the documents, LOA's, etc. and then attempt to photo match, check with industry sources etc. and make sure I am completely comfortable with the item prior to placing a bid. That is just me but I have not had a problem in a number of years because of this personal approach.

Brett,

Agreed, as any reasonable collector should.


I think the fact here that upset the poster of this topic is that it is apparent that Grey Flannel only does what benefits Grey Flannel. They certainly could have sent an image of the PSA/DNA letter as requested by the active bidder in their auction.

They chose not to. At least until it didn't matter any more (the auction had been closed for two weeks).

Anyone of you think they just may have "overlooked" it, or just "not got around to it" because they had a live auction going on....? You are entitled to your opinion.

I stated mine just three paragraphs prior. They run their business the way to want to.....

[mr.miracle]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

I am not saying necessarily that Grey Flannel is on my personal list here, but what continually baffles me is if one does a search of various auction houses on this forum, you will find any number of threads regarding all the major houses, Grey Flannel, Lelands, REA, Huggins and Scott, Mastro/Legendary, Heritage, Historic, Hunt, Vintage Authentics AMI and I am probably missing a couple of others. My point being, I personally have an internal list of houses that I will never, ever bid with. I don't care if I just inherited Bill Gates fortune and being a Ripken collector a specific house on that list acquired the entire Ripken baseball collection, based on historical issues that a number of forum members have had with that house and others sources, friends, acquaintences etc. have told me, I would not bid with that house.

There are several extremely reputable auction houses out there that I do business with and will continue to do business with. There are several others that I would not do business with under any circumstances. Again, not saying GF is or is not on that personal list but if you do some homework on this forum, I believe that virtually any auction house will have numerous threads that the potential bidder can make up his or her own mind as to whether or not they are reputable and whether their customer services is solid enough to do business with.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

I obtained an item from the most recent GF auction. Upon close inspection of the piece I had questions regarding the authentication and missing paperwork. My polite and cordial inquiries were never answered. I was very disappointed the company did not take the time to communicate with me.

So I ask you forum members........what should this poor soul do?

Escalate his questioning? That would only get him shut down as to being able to ever bid on their autions again.

Should he just man up and pay the bill, as suave1477 would tell you?

Where do we draw the line?

Fight the good fight, nyjetsfan......if you think you got something that was (possibly, mistakenly) misrepresented, and aren't getting a response when asking about it...........what would be the reasonable conclusion?


Exactly.


Good luck in your battle.

[mr.miracle]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

So I ask you forum members........what should this poor soul do?

Escalate his questioning? That would only get him shut down as to being able to ever bid on their autions again.

Should he just man up and pay the bill, as suave1477 would tell you?

Where do we draw the line?

Fight the good fight, nyjetsfan......if you think you got something that was (possibly, mistakenly) misrepresented, and aren't getting a response when asking about it...........what would be the reasonable conclusion?


Depending on how important this is to the buyer/bidder, I would escalate this. My point being, it is kind of like going to a restaurant/retail establishment etc. and having horrible service being extremely disappointed whatever. You are not going to go back unless they go a long way toward solving your problem. In my case with my auction house, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, well there was never going to be a second chance, I made sure of that. I don't go back and won't go back.

The other point or question here perhaps is whether or not the LOA or lack of LOA wording etc. somehow invalidates the item won? I am not sure if this was ever really discussed in terms of how the LOA or lack of thorough LOA somehow invalidates the item won in terms of authenticity. Perhaps it is more a matter of principle not sure and maybe the bidder can shed more light on the specifics of that matter.
Exactly.


Good luck in your battle.

!

[mr.miracle]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

So I ask you forum members........what should this poor soul do?

Escalate his questioning? That would only get him shut down as to being able to ever bid on their autions again.

Should he just man up and pay the bill, as suave1477 would tell you?

Where do we draw the line?

Fight the good fight, nyjetsfan......if you think you got something that was (possibly, mistakenly) misrepresented, and aren't getting a response when asking about it...........what would be the reasonable conclusion?


Exactly.


Good luck in your battle.

Depending on how important this is to the buyer/bidder, I would escalate this. My point being, it is kind of like going to a restaurant/retail establishment etc. and having horrible service being extremely disappointed whatever. You are not going to go back unless they go a long way toward solving your problem. In my case with my auction house, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, well there was never going to be a second chance, I made sure of that. I don't go back and won't go back.

The other point or question here perhaps is whether or not the LOA or lack of LOA wording etc. somehow invalidates the item won? I am not sure if this was ever really discussed in terms of how the LOA or lack of thorough LOA somehow invalidates the item won in terms of authenticity. Perhaps it is more a matter of principle not sure and maybe the bidder can shed more light on the specifics of that matter.

[justinlm24]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

I take complete responsibilty for bidding. Yes I jumped the gun, and should have waited....however had I waited to recieve the LOA prior to bidding, I would have never got to bid because the auction would have long been over.....It sux though because i love this bat, bit U refuse to pay for an item which was falsely represented. It plainly says "Accompanied by a LOA from PSA/DNA and another from JSA"....Heck they never even sent me the JSA letter....who knows if that even exists....They can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

So I ask you forum members........what should this poor soul do?

Escalate his questioning? That would only get him shut down as to being able to ever bid on their autions again.

Should he just man up and pay the bill, as suave1477 would tell you?

Where do we draw the line?

Fight the good fight, nyjetsfan......if you think you got something that was (possibly, mistakenly) misrepresented, and aren't getting a response when asking about it...........what would be the reasonable conclusion?


Exactly.


Good luck in your battle.

For me it's not a battle. I knew what I was getting, I simply had a couple questions and some missing paper work. I would have appreciated a reply to one of my inquiries. It's always nice when a company treats customers with a little dignity and concern. I think there have been enough posts regarding their recent auction and subsequent actions to formulate a pretty good overall assessment. Happy Father's Day to all the Dads on the forum and happy collecting to all.

[500goals]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

If an auction house/dealer knowingly sells 1 bad item they have lost my trust. When an auction house has sold 1000's of bad items they're a joke. Buyer beware. R

[Neely8]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

Here's a question. Just because the item does not have a full LOA does that make said item not legit? I feel that LOAs are not the end all be all for authenticity. We see the value of Lou Lampson LOAs these days. If an item I am interested shows all the appropriate game worn/used characteristics then I am ok with that. I collect mostly hockey where usually the wear speaks for itself and a lot of hockey collectors are not rabid for LOAs as it seems a considerable number of collectors on here are.

[suave1477]

Re: grey flannel is a joke

Should he just man up and pay the bill, as suave1477 would tell you?


Good luck in your battle.

First before I answer this comment.

What is the actual argument here? Are you comfortable with the item? Because is the only reason you want to return the item because it didn't come with the full PSA/DNA LOA?

Now to answer that comment!!
I am glad suicide knows me so well (sarcasm). No actually I would tell you do what you want. But if you choose to go suicides route and just not pay yes there will be legal issues and you will be taking the chance of wage garnishments. Suicides plan is a great one.
I would also say if you feel that unhappy with the item, yes try to fight it and do what you must to return it. But I wouldn't go the route of just not paying and leaving it at that.
I don't know if it is a concern of yours but if you do not pay and it does go the legal route it does get noted on your credit score.