RIP Steve McNair

[reed1216]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

I really think there's a fine line between making generalizations based on culture or ethnicity and drawing upon aspects of one's culture/ethnicity in order to better understand the motives behind somebody's actions. I would guess that nobody here knows whether or not the woman that was found dead with McNair had just moved here from Iran, or if her family came here several generations ago. I don't think political correctness is to blame for people objecting to her being labeled as an Iranian lunatic. Most Iranians who come to this country do so for the same reasons anyone else migrates here- to enjoy life in a free society that is supposed to offer opportunities to everyone, regardless of nationality, culture, religion, race, etc...

With that said, this whole thing is a horrible tragedy. I loved watching Steve McNair play football. At his peak, he was among the best QBs in the NFL and he played the game with guts and heart. He could win games with his arm, or with his mobility and was a tremendous team leader. By all accounts he was also well respected for his work in the community. While having an extramarital affair is wrong, I agree with those who have speculated that many, if not most, married pro athletes cheat on their wives. Of course, that doesn't make what he did right. But to be killed like he was is just terrible.

From what I have gathered, the two of them were photographed on vacation a while back and the pictures were posted to an internet website (I can't recall which one). The two were also pulled over for DUI in a vehicle that was registered in both of their names. McNair, who was in the passenger seat, ended up taking a cab home that night, while the woman was arrested for the DUI. I also read that there was some speculation that she expected McNair to divorce his wife and marry her.

I'm guessing here, but I would imagine that McNair's wife ordered him to break off the affair with the woman and she reacted to it by killing him and then herself. We should know a lot more about what really happened once the ballistic results are reported and if Mrs. McNair discusses the matter further with authorities. Regardless of what comes out, this is a shocking tragedy for the entire McNair family. I really feel for his kids, who will have to go through life knowing that their father was taken from them under these circumstances...

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

I really think there's a fine line between making generalizations based on culture or ethnicity and drawing upon aspects of one's culture/ethnicity in order to better understand the motives behind somebody's actions. I would guess that nobody here knows whether or not the woman that was found dead with McNair had just moved here from Iran, or if her family came here several generations ago. I don't think political correctness is to blame for people objecting to her being labeled as an Iranian lunatic. Most Iranians who come to this country do so for the same reasons anyone else migrates here- to enjoy life in a free society that is supposed to offer opportunities to everyone, regardless of nationality, culture, religion, race, etc...

With that said, this whole thing is a horrible tragedy. I loved watching Steve McNair play football. At his peak, he was among the best QBs in the NFL and he played the game with guts and heart. He could win games with his arm, or with his mobility and was a tremendous team leader. By all accounts he was also well respected for his work in the community. While having an extramarital affair is wrong, I agree with those who have speculated that many, if not most, married pro athletes cheat on their wives. Of course, that doesn't make what he did right. But to be killed like he was is just terrible.

From what I have gathered, the two of them were photographed on vacation a while back and the pictures were posted to an internet website (I can't recall which one). The two were also pulled over for DUI in a vehicle that was registered in both of their names. McNair, who was in the passenger seat, ended up taking a cab home that night, while the woman was arrested for the DUI. I also read that there was some speculation that she expected McNair to divorce his wife and marry her.

I'm guessing here, but I would imagine that McNair's wife ordered him to break off the affair with the woman and she reacted to it by killing him and then herself. We should know a lot more about what really happened once the ballistic results are reported and if Mrs. McNair discusses the matter further with authorities. Regardless of what comes out, this is a shocking tragedy for the entire McNair family. I really feel for his kids, who will have to go through life knowing that their father was taken from them under these circumstances...

Nice post reed, thanks.

I heard today on the local news radio that this 20 year old had purchased the gun Thursday.....July 2nd. By the way, she was only 20, and you must be 21 in order to purchase a firearm in Tennessee.

Premeditation.

So the answer to this mystery murder-suicide will be found prior to July 2nd. Hopefully friends can shed some light on the mess.



Now, for those of you who were offended by my "Iranian lunatic" remark, get over it. I was in the streets in Beverly Hills in 1979 when the Iranians were rioting, picking fights foolishly, chanting "death to America!" during the Iranian hostage crisis. They were pummeled.....right up to the point the Sherriff's buses came in and took them away. I was one of the ones performing the pummeling......and I've never lived a more proud moment in my life.

Anyone who has the gall to come here to live, and then turn on our country while chanting "Death to America" while enjoying the benefits this great country offers to ALL......EVERYONE.....EVERY RACE, CREED, COLOR, RELIGIOUS FOLLOWER.......you had better respect this country FIRST and FOREMOST......or you don't belong here.

Nobody here need bother with your "political correctness" garbage to me. My father was a decorated WWII Veteran. When I turned 18 in 1978, I went straight to the local post office and registered, and would have been the first on the plane had we been called for duty. As it turned out, on the day before Reagan took the oath, the miserable vermin Dictatorship in the Middle East let out one big pfffffffffffffffffft! and let our prisoners go.

You all think that was by chance? By coincidence? lol!

It's my opinion that "political correctness" has weakened our country in recent years in a bad, deep way. It is not prejudice, an attack on anyone, or an angry comment directed towards any ethnicity or race. It's been a carefully imposed compromise on what the forefathers of this great country layed out for all of us, and this PC bulls#!t has systematically picked away at our standards to allow tollerance to immigrants who in some cases don't deserve it. Why?......because unfortunately, there ARE prejudiced people, and the immigrants that didn't deserve the wrath were being discriminated against, so we adopted this policy.

But if all of you drueling over a chance to jump on a guy like me because I may have said something you didn't like because of the appearance of being politically correct........too bad. I make no apologies for that. I never met my mother's brother, because he died in WWII. I know where my freedom and peace of mind living in America COMES FROM.

This 20 year old lunatic murdered a good guy. Fortunately, she did herself too to clean it up and not waste more tax paying dollars on a lengthy expensive "Garragos" trial.

Is there any relevance to the fact this 20 year old that murdered Steve McNair was Iranian? Of COURSE not. But it is a fact. That's all. If any of you have personal problems over that fact.....then seek some help.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

We all love political correctness (not), however, certain cultures tend to be more passionate/emotional and less cerebral where relationships are concerned. And some cultures really seem to view life as not worth a plugged nickel.

If you want to underrstand the big picture of an individual's life choices and actions, best to look at all influences, not eliminate some because of said political correctness.

mvandor,

Again, guys like you can see the point, can see through the smoke, and not jump to crazy predisposed conclusions because of a comment made.

My last rant (prior post) was to let people know where I am coming from.

Of course, the ones that don't get it will think I'm prejudice, hate Iranians, and all that nonsense. Oh well.....I'm not responsible for their thought process. In fact, forget about the fact that I have a very close Iranian friend.....because that would just "confuse" them more.

It's just apparent that so many here like to jump down the throat of fellow forum members at first chance. Why not take a deep breath. Usually the one who jumps first is guilty of exactly what they are projecting.....

Think about it before you mouth off about Americans.....whoever you are. Americans as a group are the most giving, socially responsible charitable helpful people on the face of the earth.

In any case, enough of this garbage. This has gotten too far off the original intent of the thread. I hope answers arise, and there can be some sense of closure for both families involved in this sad tragedy.

[reed1216]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Here's a link to an interesting story that provides further details on this tragedy...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/07/06/2009-07-06_untitled__3mcnair06m.html

I noticed that Sahel Kazemi (the woman found next to McNair) moved to the United States after both of her parents were killed in Iran. I wonder what the circumstances were surrounding their deaths...

I also see that Mrs. McNair was apparently unaware of the relationship her husband and Kazemi were having. Although I find that hard to believe, given the photos of them parasailing that were posted on TMZ (I think that was the website), anything is possible, I guess.

I also heard on the radio tonight that McNair's oldest son is playing for the same high school team in Mississippi that Brett Favre attended. Apparently he is fielding offers to play college football at some fairly prominent Division 1 schools. Hopefully all four of his children can embrace the positive aspects of their dad's life. From everything I can gather, despite this extramarital affair, Steve McNair was a tremendous human being...

[David]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Obviously different cultures have different ways of acting, expressing themselves, traits, norms, etc. There should be no controversy in saying that. These very differences are in part what defines them as different cultures. However, I'm not aware that Iranians or Persians are unusually emotional compared to other cultures.

[David]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

I should add that if someone said Sicilians tend to be more animated and emotional than Norwegians, I would agree one hundred percent. I'm Norwegian-American and Scandinavians can be extremely reserved. So I agree that some cultures are generally more 'hot tempered.' It's just that I'm not aware that Iranians are that way. I have admittedly limited experience with Iranians and do non cast a broad cultural brush from it, but the few I have met were quite, well, normal by American standards. My childhood friend's dad was Iranian, having immigrated during the Shah's days, and he was the most even tempered, soft spoken, common sense guy you'd meet. His wife was English, and she was the emotional, animated one of the couple.

[reed1216]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

At this point, it's very difficult for me to determine what cultural factors contributed to Kazemi allegedly flying off the handle to the extent that she premeditated the apparent murder/suicide. I don't know enough about Iranian/Persian culture to make much sense of it from that perspective. However, it looks like she moved to the US to stay with her aunt in Florida, following the deaths of both her parents. If I'm not mistaken, they were killed when she was just 9 years old.

I do know that a traumatic event of that magnitude can have very negative residual effects on children, as they grow up, in every culture I can think of. I would be very interested to find out what exactly happened to them. I would imagine that Kazemi suffered some significant psychological scars as a result of their deaths, regardless of the circumstances. Of course, the severity of these scars would vary from person to person and the circumstances could also have impacted her lack of emotional stability. Either way, I imagine she never sought treatment for these issues and I would speculate that they played a prominent role in her lack of emotional stability.

[reed1216]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

suicide_squeeze- While I would agree that the election of 1980 impacted the release of the hostages, I also think you neglected to mention that several other factors were also involved. Particularly, Iraq launched an attack on Iran just as our presidential race was hitting its stride. That put a great deal of pressure on the Iranian government to try to negotiate with the US to release the hostages, so they could focus their efforts towards Iraq, thereby defending their national security.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that Reagan probably would have adopted a more aggressive stance against Iran. I would also agree that the Iranian government must have been influenced to a certain degree of this, but given the vast political and religious differences in each country, I think that Iran took advantage of the fact that Reagan defeated Carter, who was seen as evil by a large segment of the Iranian population at the time. The failed rescue attempt by the US military also fueled some of the hatred that Iran has had toward our country. In short, I am of the opinion that Iran used Carter's defeat as propaganda in order to justify the release of the hostages so they could focus their military efforts toward defending themselves against Iraq.

In watching a 4 hour documentary on the hostage crisis, it appears that the Iranians who were interviewed really didn't see a great deal of difference between the two politicians. One former member of the Iranian government stated that in their culture, they "don't see any difference between a hawk and a dove." Carter's defeat provided a great deal of credibility among the Iranian people that justified the actions they took in keeping over 50 US citizens as hostages for 444 days.

I agree with both you and mvander in that understanding the complexities of any situation is important in determining what course of action people should take in order to handle difficult situations. I think it applies to the situation you described in your post, as well as what occured in Steve McNair's murder. However, I also think it's somewhat dangerous to act on impulse and emotion, especially when in crisis.

That's just my two cents on what you posted. I hope my response didn't take this topic too far off course. Prior to this, I was really trying to keep my opinions on this topic focused on what led to the tragic events of the 4th. With that said, I respect whatever opinions you have on the topic. Obviously you love our country and want to defend it at any cost. I just think we all need to be careful in jumping to firm conclusions before we know everything that is involved.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

At this point, it's very difficult for me to determine what cultural factors contributed to Kazemi allegedly flying off the handle to the extent that she premeditated the apparent murder/suicide. I don't know enough about Iranian/Persian culture to make much sense of it from that perspective. However, it looks like she moved to the US to stay with her aunt in Florida, following the deaths of both her parents. If I'm not mistaken, they were killed when she was just 9 years old.

I do know that a traumatic event of that magnitude can have very negative residual effects on children, as they grow up, in every culture I can think of. I would be very interested to find out what exactly happened to them. I would imagine that Kazemi suffered some significant psychological scars as a result of their deaths, regardless of the circumstances. Of course, the severity of these scars would vary from person to person and the circumstances could also have impacted her lack of emotional stability. Either way, I imagine she never sought treatment for these issues and I would speculate that they played a prominent role in her lack of emotional stability.

Well said, and obviously the case.

Life can be so sad. Obviously Steve McNair had no idea what he was getting involved with. There was something very complex, as there often is, behind the friendly personality and whatever else there was he saw in this young female.

There can never be a more poignant case than this to remind anyone that there is a price to pay for jumping into a situation void of familiarization......in this case, the ramifications of a deeply disturbed young lady, knowing not what fait had handed her, or stepping out of the comfort and love of ones own marriage to fulfill some other void in one's life.

It's just so sickening that this happened to what everyone know's was a good man. I would bet that his wife would say the same even after learning of the affair. We are human, we make mistakes. But to have to pay for one in such a manner........is horrific.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Obviously different cultures have different ways of acting, expressing themselves, traits, norms, etc. There should be no controversy in saying that. These very differences are in part what defines them as different cultures. However, I'm not aware that Iranians or Persians are unusually emotional compared to other cultures.

It is a statement in itself to the explosive level of confrontationalism there is here in regards to some members of this forum. I made a statement, and the political correctness (or lack there-of, to be more precise as seen by others) then spurned an accusation of backpeddling.

Now I hear details of the shooting. One shot to McNair's head was point blank. The other three were approximated to have occured from three feet away. The fatal wound to the female's head was with the gun pressed to the temple.

If that isn't at the hand of a lunatic, for whatever reason created the state of lunacy, then God help us all. If that's what rational people......of any race, creed, religious belief, color, or otherwise......are doing these days, were all in trouble.

[Dewey2007]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

This has absolutely nothing to do with her culture or ethnicity or political correctness or the Iranian hostage situation of 1979 or any of the nonsense that has come out of this thread. She could have been Iranian, Scandinavian, American or all of the above. It has all to do with a young woman who was engaged in an extramarital affair with a well known older man. She was probably expecting more from him in regards to a relationship and he probably wasn't ready to leave his wife and kids. This happens with men as well. Just call it what it appears to be, a jilted lover who committed homicide and then seeing no way out took her own life. The simple fact remains that Steve McNair and this woman both died way to young. Just leave it at that...

[reed1216]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Dewey2007- I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think the topic ran off the track at times, but it was due mostly to looking at the situation and exploring some of the factors that may have contributed to what happened. A few members, myself included, also responded to some posts that were made by others and that probably contributed to things going in several different directions. Despite that, I think this thread has produced some enriching discussions.

When I first heard the news of McNair's death, I was shocked. Engaging in the discussion, even in the areas that tended to stray from the central issue, has helped me gain a little better understanding of what happened. I think that's a pretty good thing...

[Dewey2007]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Dewey2007- I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think the topic ran off the track at times, but it was due mostly to looking at the situation and exploring some of the factors that may have contributed to what happened. A few members, myself included, also responded to some posts that were made by others and that probably contributed to things going in several different directions. Despite that, I think this thread has produced some enriching discussions.

When I first heard the news of McNair's death, I was shocked. Engaging in the discussion, even in the areas that tended to stray from the central issue, has helped me gain a little better understanding of what happened. I think that's a pretty good thing...

Point taken. I guess sometimes these threads evoke a lot of emotion and get off topic real quick. This one to me had just lost all of it's original intent. I guess all of us are probably guilty of playing amateur psychologist/criminologist with trying to speculate what happened and why. It's sad anytime you hear of something like this happening. From all of read and heard McNair was a standup guy who just unfortunately got caught up in a bad decision of his making that ended up costing him his life.

[reed1216]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Dewey2007- Again, I totally agree with you, especially the part about getting emotional and losing track of the original intent of the thread. I'm a Bears fan, so I have never really cared much for either the Titans or the Ravens. However, I followed McNair's career pretty closely and really admired the type of player he was, as well as what he meant to the communities he belonged to and positively influenced. I think you summed things up pretty well when you mentioned that "McNair was a standup guy who just unfortunately got caught up in a bad decision of his making that ended up costing him his life."

[gridman80]

Re: RIP Steve McNair

Nice post reed, thanks.

I heard today on the local news radio that this 20 year old had purchased the gun Thursday.....July 2nd. By the way, she was only 20, and you must be 21 in order to purchase a firearm in Tennessee.

Premeditation.

So the answer to this mystery murder-suicide will be found prior to July 2nd. Hopefully friends can shed some light on the mess.



Now, for those of you who were offended by my "Iranian lunatic" remark, get over it. I was in the streets in Beverly Hills in 1979 when the Iranians were rioting, picking fights foolishly, chanting "death to America!" during the Iranian hostage crisis. They were pummeled.....right up to the point the Sherriff's buses came in and took them away. I was one of the ones performing the pummeling......and I've never lived a more proud moment in my life.

Anyone who has the gall to come here to live, and then turn on our country while chanting "Death to America" while enjoying the benefits this great country offers to ALL......EVERYONE.....EVERY RACE, CREED, COLOR, RELIGIOUS FOLLOWER.......you had better respect this country FIRST and FOREMOST......or you don't belong here.

Nobody here need bother with your "political correctness" garbage to me. My father was a decorated WWII Veteran. When I turned 18 in 1978, I went straight to the local post office and registered, and would have been the first on the plane had we been called for duty. As it turned out, on the day before Reagan took the oath, the miserable vermin Dictatorship in the Middle East let out one big pfffffffffffffffffft! and let our prisoners go.

You all think that was by chance? By coincidence? lol!

It's my opinion that "political correctness" has weakened our country in recent years in a bad, deep way. It is not prejudice, an attack on anyone, or an angry comment directed towards any ethnicity or race. It's been a carefully imposed compromise on what the forefathers of this great country layed out for all of us, and this PC bulls#!t has systematically picked away at our standards to allow tollerance to immigrants who in some cases don't deserve it. Why?......because unfortunately, there ARE prejudiced people, and the immigrants that didn't deserve the wrath were being discriminated against, so we adopted this policy.

But if all of you drueling over a chance to jump on a guy like me because I may have said something you didn't like because of the appearance of being politically correct........too bad. I make no apologies for that. I never met my mother's brother, because he died in WWII. I know where my freedom and peace of mind living in America COMES FROM.

This 20 year old lunatic murdered a good guy. Fortunately, she did herself too to clean it up and not waste more tax paying dollars on a lengthy expensive "Garragos" trial.

Is there any relevance to the fact this 20 year old that murdered Steve McNair was Iranian? Of COURSE not. But it is a fact. That's all. If any of you have personal problems over that fact.....then seek some help.

McNair keeps it in his pants and all of this is completely moot....