Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

[33bird]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Well, unlike Pete, Shoeless's joe's statistics don't warrant HOF induction. Go check em' out and you'll agree with me. And you can't say shoulda, woulda, coulda either. If you do we'll put Bo Jackson in the HOF too.

[staindsox]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

.....the point being......there were a LOT of rotten eggs in the basket besides the "8 men out".

Maybe it should have been called the "8 scapegoats a grazing"?

Why do you think Shoeless Joe tried twice to return the $5K? Because he wasn't involved? He may not have activly participated, but he knew.

So I ask you....what's the difference? He took the $5K for hush money? C'mon........

Jackson is a scapegoat...THEY ALL KNEW.

It is funny if you read Landis' statement. Where was Jackson more guilty than anyone else?

"Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ballgame, no player that undertakes or promises to throw a ballgame, no player that sits in conference with a bunch of crooked players and gamblers where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball."

Joe:

1) Never sat in conference with the players when fixing games was discussed (even Weaver did this).

2) Never promised to throw games. They used his name to make the fix sound sweeter to the gamblers.

3) Was given money AFTER the Series, but and tried to return it the next day (yes, this is prompt). Then tried to bring it up again when he signed his 1920 contract.

Guess what...Schalk and Collins both knew about a fix (just as much as Jackson) and didn't come forward. Comiskey knew too and even tried to bury it. Ban Johnson was in the same boat. Those are a lot of tarnished Hall of Fame plaques.

The point is that it is easy to assign blame to eight players and everyone has a tendancy to view this as a somewhat isolated incident. EVERYONE was involved to some level; whether fixing a game, trying to cover it up, or just trying to ignore it. Several Series before 1919 had been fixed and the Black Sox dumped games in the 1920 pennant race too. Game fixing was pervasive and almost destroyed the game. Viewing it through this lens, it is understandable why MLB has consistantly taken such a harsh stance on gambling since 1920.

[schubert1970]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

I think the Mantle/Mays thing could be different then Rose. If Shoeless isn't getting in anytome soon, Rose has no shot at all. I'll give you 10-1 odds.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Everyone knew about the fix before the series...Ban Johnson, Charles Comiskey...everyone. Joe tried to return the money twice and Comiskey wouldn't see him. Since Commy knew before the Series, he could have lost his franchise. He wanted to distance himself from it as much as possible...which is why his lawyers got confessions out of Jackson and Cicotte. Who were they protecting; the players???

.....the point being......there were a LOT of rotten eggs in the basket besides the "8 men out".

Maybe it should have been called the "8 scapegoats a grazing"?

Why do you think Shoeless Joe tried twice to return the $5K? Because he wasn't involved? He may not have activly participated, but he knew.

So I ask you....what's the difference? He took the $5K for hush money? C'mon........

[staindsox]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Everyone knew about the fix before the series...Ban Johnson, Charles Comiskey...everyone. Joe tried to return the money twice and Comiskey wouldn't see him. Since Commy knew before the Series, he could have lost his franchise. He wanted to distance himself from it as much as possible...which is why his lawyers got confessions out of Jackson and Cicotte. Who were they protecting; the players???

[NYCrulesU]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

I'm with Chakes and Lucas, I've always believed Joe Jackson was innocent. There are too many documented testimonies from others not to see this. The rumors that he shaved points is pure nonsense and can't be supported with facts. But it does make for good arguement material, if you're one who likes to argue just to argue.

[chakes89]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

I also read that Jackson tried to tell Comiskey what was happening but Comiskey wouldn't see him

So who is to say that Comiskey wasn't involved as well

[rj_lucas]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

I do believe that he is innocent

His batting stats show nothing to disprove that and first hand accounts of the game state that all of the supposed triples that he botched were never hit to him

Read historian Gene Carney's book, called 'Burying the Black Sox: How Baseball's Cover-Up of the World Series Fix Almost Succeeded'.

Even Eddie Cicotte stated that the $5000 given to Jackson (which, by the way, was given to Jackson AFTER the World Series and which he attempted to return) was 'hush money', and that Jackson did not participate in the fix.

In Jackson's 1924 civil trial against Charles Comiskey (which Jackson won, but was overturned on a technicality), Comiskey himself testified under oath that Jackson 'played all games to win'.

The fact that Comiskey is in the Hall of Fame and Jackson is not is a travesty that should have been addressed decades ago.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[chakes89]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

I do believe that he is innocent

His batting stats show nothing to disprove that and first hand accounts of the game state that all of the supposed triples that he botched were never hit to him

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Joe Jackson was acquitted of throwing the world series in 1921

He should have been reinstated right after that

But Bowman Landis had to go all Roger Goodell and banned all that were involved for life

chakes89,

Do you really think Shoeless Joe was innocent? I understand he was found innocent in a court of law, but the dude was guilty as all hell. Just read about his defensive "performance" in the series. He was shaving runs like a fiend. He was (like so many others) just sorry he got caught.

[chakes89]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Joe Jackson was acquitted of throwing the world series in 1921

He should have been reinstated right after that

But Bowman Landis had to go all Roger Goodell and banned all that were involved for life

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

And by the way.....

I just called Heritage to straighten them out on their facts.

They are advertising the Rose home run bat as "Pete's last career home run bat."

Pete Rose hit 160 home runs in his career. That bat was used to hit his career home run 159.

Look to have them make that correction soon in the listing of this bat.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Or.......maybe Pete himself is so sure he'll be reinstated soon, he just decided to sell the bat himself to pick up some "gambling change" since football season is starting?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

By the way, Greg, I'll go on record and state right now that I predict that bat sells for something no where near $100,000.

My guess is maybe $16,000-20,000.

So why would the place that spent a bundle on this bat decide to sell it for a HUGE loss without going through the public cutting display they had planned? Certainly they could make up the losses with attendance and advertising for such an event one would think? Obviously, and certainly they understand, the bat will sell for a whole lot less than what they paid for it.

So what gives?

The Casino owner wants to get what he can out of it now, since his plan (for whatever reason) didn't come to be? Hmmmmmm.....what a strange chain of circumstances?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

Suicide Squeeze-the conspiracy theorist! Well, the 100k Rose corked bat is up for auction AGAIN by Heritage right now. Guess they (the casino) didn't buy it to protect Rose and dispose of it after all? Please come back to reality now.

I never left.

What explanation do you have for that bat selling for over $100,000?

It was sooo outlandish I found myself believing there had to be something else behind it. I could care less if I was wrong. I just like to use some cerebral juice to figure things out in this world. It was just one of many possibilities, so I threw it out there as food for thought.

So, why didn't the Casino "cut the bat in half in a live event for all to see" like they has stated in their press release in 2005 when they won it....only to have it disappear from the face of the earth until now?

Please, forum members, don't let the threat of having yourself labeled as a "conspiracy theorist" hold you back from giving your opinions.....