ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

[emann]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Exactly. As I pointed out in another thread, anabolic steroids have been around since the 1930's and in common medical use since the 1950's.

This issue did not magically spring into existence 10 years ago. Remember Lyle Alzado? And that was the 1970's for crying out loud.

The difference in baseball to me though, is that baseball players didn't want to look like huge bodybuilders (and often the opposite) until the Canseco era. Then you start seeing the Kirby Puckett, Wade Boggs & Ozzie smith body types replaced by hulking mass like McGwire, Sosa & Bonds.

I think that probably some players experimented with steroids in years past (probably more to bounce back from injuries quicker than to add muscle), but I doubt it was very widespread like the late 90's & early 2000's...

Of course the claim is there that Mantle used amphetamines and possibly testosterone.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4192628

[rj_lucas]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

I think that probably some players experimented with steroids in years past (probably more to bounce back from injuries quicker than to add muscle), but I doubt it was very widespread like the late 90's & early 2000's...

In other words, OK to juice a little, just not TOO much?

Assuming it was less widespread 40 years ago, doesn't that mean the guys that did it then had even more of an unfair advantage than the guys that did it ten years ago when everybody did it?

I keep using the term 'slippery slope' because that's what this issue is. And the more we try to parse it, the slicker it gets.

Terrific article, thanks for the link. Every purist on the PEDs issue should read it.

The 'good old days' were never that good. Meanwhile, the great game of baseball marches on.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[frikativ54]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

The 'good old days' were never that good.

You hit the nail on the head with this assertion.

[JasonM33]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Jason,

Apparently, you are from a different school.

I was in no way trying to be smug, sarcastic, or anything derrogatory towards you. I stated facts about Canseco that is common knowledge. I am sorry, truly, if I stepped on your boy. I hope you will accept this for truth, and my apologies for upsetting you.....I don't even know you, so why would I want to do that?

I do think Canseco is a cretin, I'm not going to lie to you. You should not take that personally......that is simply my opinion. My God, if someone told me that the nicest guy I ever met in baseball, Harmon Killebrew, was the biggest jerk in the world, I'd say to myself "That's your opinion". I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, or think the person was a loser because of his opinion??

Again, I ask.....I am seriously interested in knowing why or how anyone who is a fan of baseball can find something to instill "fanhood" for such a creep? Feel free to ignore this if you want, but please don't misconstru my intentions.....they were genuine.

It insults my intelligence when you imply that my problem was based solely on the fact that you have a negative opinion of Jose Canseco. I don't care what you think of him good or bad. I never asked you what you thought of him. All I did was mention, in a post that was not directed at you, that I was a Canseco fan. You took that as an opportunity to call me out, by name, in a very sarcastic and antagonistic fashion. If you don’t think there was a sarcastic tone to how you came across then you need to get a dictionary and look up the definition of the word. Let me help you.

sarcasm - witty language used to convey insults or scorn.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

sarcasm - A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis. Saying something that is opposite of what is intended to be meant; An act of sarcasm
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sarcasm


Also, I want to be clear about a few things…….

I wasn't upset because you "stepped on my boy".

I didn’t “take it personally” that you think Canseco is a cretin

I haven't “lost any sleep over it”.

I never “thought you were a loser” because of your opinion.

I don’t need your permission to ignore your post so don’t tell me to “feel free” to do so.

If you were “seriously interested” in why I am a fan you would have posed the question in a much more respectful way. Words have meaning. Your original question was a ruse. Your apology was an insult and I do not accept it. I’ll thank you not to post anything else to or about me in this forum again. Good day.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

It insults my intelligence when you imply that my problem was based solely on the fact that you have a negative opinion of Jose Canseco. I don't care what you think of him good or bad. I never asked you what you thought of him. All I did was mention, in a post that was not directed at you, that I was a Canseco fan. You took that as an opportunity to call me out, by name, in a very sarcastic and antagonistic fashion. If you don’t think there was a sarcastic tone to how you came across then you need to get a dictionary and look up the definition of the word. Let me help you.

sarcasm - witty language used to convey insults or scorn.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

sarcasm - A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis. Saying something that is opposite of what is intended to be meant; An act of sarcasm
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sarcasm


Also, I want to be clear about a few things…….

I wasn't upset because you "stepped on my boy".

I didn’t “take it personally” that you think Canseco is a cretin

I haven't “lost any sleep over it”.

I never “thought you were a loser” because of your opinion.

I don’t need your permission to ignore your post so don’t tell me to “feel free” to do so.

If you were “seriously interested” in why I am a fan you would have posed the question in a much more respectful way. Words have meaning. Your original question was a ruse. Your apology was an insult and I do not accept it. I’ll thank you not to post anything else to or about me in this forum again. Good day.

Um............................I don't know what happened here.

Jason, you really need to relax. Not for me, for your heart.

There was absolutely no reason to assume, incorrectly I might add, that I was "calling you out".

All I freakin wanted to know is why you like Jose Canseco? That's all.

But apparently that's too much of a question for you to answer, so to hell with it. I really don't care why you like him anymore. To have to go through your rant, coming uncomfortably close to resembling a roid rage.......hmmmmmmmm, and completely come uncorked because I stepped on your idol is silly. No more from me, no worries.

By the way, Jose plays poker at the Hollywood Park often on weekends, and he can be found at the Sagebrush Cantina in Calabasas, CA, having a beer (or eight) while posing for pictures with.......fans like you!....and hitting on the local women......so let me know if I can introduce you sometime to the cretin....ER.....ex-ball player. My treat!

[frikativ54]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

By the way, Jose plays poker at the Hollywood Park often on weekends, and he can be found at the Sagebrush Cantina in Calabasas, CA, having a beer (or eight) while posing for pictures with.......fans like you!....and hitting on the local women......so let me know if I can introduce you sometime to the cretin....ER.....ex-ball player. My treat!

You know Canseco? Or frequent his hangout? Perhaps you could provide an insider's knowledge about the ballplayer, his motives, and his credibility. Please do share your thoughts about Canseco's comportment, as they have value in how I assess the veracity of Canseco's statements.

[JasonM33]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Um............................I don't know what happened here.

Jason, you really need to relax. Not for me, for your heart.

There was absolutely no reason to assume, incorrectly I might add, that I was "calling you out".

All I freakin wanted to know is why you like Jose Canseco? That's all.

But apparently that's too much of a question for you to answer, so to hell with it. I really don't care why you like him anymore. To have to go through your rant, coming uncomfortably close to resembling a roid rage.......hmmmmmmmm, and completely come uncorked because I stepped on your idol is silly. No more from me, no worries.

By the way, Jose plays poker at the Hollywood Park often on weekends, and he can be found at the Sagebrush Cantina in Calabasas, CA, having a beer (or eight) while posing for pictures with.......fans like you!....and hitting on the local women......so let me know if I can introduce you sometime to the cretin....ER.....ex-ball player. My treat!

I’m not buying your feigned confusion about what happened. I couldn’t have been any clearer about why you annoyed me. I didn’t appreciate how you came across in your "question" to me. I found it sarcastic and disrespectful. If your apology had been sincere, my explanation would have been good enough. But it wasn’t, you had to continue to condescend. Bye the way, you seem to have a pattern of sarcasm in your writing. Example…

“But apparently that's too much of a question for you to answer” = sarcasm

Don’t tell me to “relax” and don’t worry about my heart.

I’m not assuming anything. I will define what I consider being called out, not you.

I’m not “ranting”. I’m not in a “roid rage”. I haven’t come “uncorked”. Have I cursed you or typed in all caps? No, I have not. I am not upset because you “stepped on my idol”. I don’t need you to tell me where Jose hangs out, and I don’t need you to introduce me to him. If you really want to treat me then you will simply stop typing things to me and move along. You don’t know anything about me and I’m not interested in knowing you or having a debate with you. Let me repeat……… I would prefer that you don’t post anything else to me or about me on this forum. Thank you.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

I’m not buying your feigned confusion about what happened. I couldn’t have been any clearer about why you annoyed me. I didn’t appreciate how you came across in your "question" to me. I found it sarcastic and disrespectful. If your apology had been sincere, my explanation would have been good enough. But it wasn’t, you had to continue to condescend. Bye the way, you seem to have a pattern of sarcasm in your writing. Example…

“But apparently that's too much of a question for you to answer” = sarcasm

Don’t tell me to “relax” and don’t worry about my heart.

I’m not assuming anything. I will define what I consider being called out, not you.

I’m not “ranting”. I’m not in a “roid rage”. I haven’t come “uncorked”. Have I cursed you or typed in all caps? No, I have not. I am not upset because you “stepped on my idol”. I don’t need you to tell me where Jose hangs out, and I don’t need you to introduce me to him. If you really want to treat me then you will simply stop typing things to me and move along. You don’t know anything about me and I’m not interested in knowing you or having a debate with you. Let me repeat……… I would prefer that you don’t post anything else to me or about me on this forum. Thank you.

.......um.......BYE Jason....

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

You know Canseco? Or frequent his hangout? Perhaps you could provide an insider's knowledge about the ballplayer, his motives, and his credibility. Please do share your thoughts about Canseco's comportment, as they have value in how I assess the veracity of Canseco's statements.

Hi Les,

Can't say I claim to know him, no. I do see him around town on occasion. Last I read along with everybody else is he was fighting to keep his house in the Encino area out of foreclosure, but he lost that battle. It's been widespread knowledge that he has had serious financial problems in the last year or two.

The issues I have with Canseco are, as mentioned before, his general lack of character, morals, integrity, and doing things right as society sees it. This guy breaks the rules to gain personal wealth and prestige at the cost of anyone in his way. I guess some people feel that's OK. I think Jose is a piece of garbage. The wake of damage and destruction he helped institutionalize as "customary and accepted" in baseball has almost ruined the sport, many reputations, and a whole lot of careers. But the players who chose to go down that road have no ones but themselves to blame.

On a side note, I think the biggest casualty of this whole steroid era will end up being Barry Bonds. He truly was talented enough to have had a tremendous baseball career, a sure-fire Hall of Famer as a clean player......but he just couldn't take it that guys that were cheating were getting all of the thunder from the fans......so he fell into the pit and starting using in a big way. Yes, Barry, you proved that YOU were the greatest when placed on a level playing field.....the WWF mat. Hope you are happy, how'd it all work out for you, super-star? I guess we'll all see soon, as your perjury trial commences. Thank Jose Canseco for his contributions to your personal dimise.....

That said, I do appreciate that he (Jose) has come out and exposed the MLB drug (PED) problem. The sad part is he did it out of vengence. Essentially being black-balled from baseball because everyone involved in it wanted nothing to do with him anymore, just didn't sit well with the thug. He wanted to become a 500 home run member, but fell short.....so he developed the sour-grapes attitude of "OK, have it your way, baseball, I'm bringing everyone down with me".

I do believe he has a few friends in the game that he favors, and he will continue to cover up the facts of possible (probable) drug use in regards to these individuals, and I think he doesn't give a rats backside about exposing the rest. He needs money, and of course won't get e real job, hence the books. But.....I will say this......As much of a cretin, sour-grapes, scumbag self-absorbed thug as he is.......I do believe he is credible in the things he has said, publicly, and in his books. When you break it down, he has no reason to lie. All he is is a living breathing nightmare to all that played with him, and around him, because he's singing. I think he feels comfortable in the fact that all of this "controversy" has made him a celebrity.....God knows it helps him make money, as he gets invited to do radio shows, small spots now and then on TV, etc,. when the steroids issue raises it's ugly head from time to time.

It will be interesting to see what he comes up with next, because in regards to his baseball "tattling", I think he's given out the majority of what he knew.

[Lokee]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

"On a side note, I think the biggest casualty of this whole steroid era will end up being Barry Bonds."

I could not agree more.

[3arod13]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Possibly Tony Gwynn? (there, back on topic)

[frikativ54]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Possibly Tony Gwynn? (there, back on topic)

That is an interesting take, though when steroid hulk comes to mind, I just don't think of Gwynn.

[JasonM33]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Possibly Tony Gwynn? (there, back on topic)

Actually, I have it on good authority that the Hall of Famer that Canseco was referring to was none other than Kenny Powers.

[frikativ54]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Actually, I have it on good authority that the Hall of Famer that Canseco was referring to was none other than Kenny Powers.

Wow, unbelievable!

[cjclong]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

I get so tired of people "speculating" on who may have used drugs. If Canseco wants to point out somebody let him do it. All this is doing is throwing mud at people with out a lot to back it up. We might as well speculate whether the contributors to this thread create phony game used items since there are people in this hobby who do so you just might be one of them. This is exactly the logic that is being used in saying maybe this player did. The fact is there were players who used during the era and those that didn't. Probably the fact is that absesnt a test we won't have positve proof on those who did or didn't. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to players. Others suspicion everybody. But it does no good to point out people. Look at all the names here. Some of them may have used and I'm sure some didn't. But it is a total injustice to players who didn't use to throw their names out as users based on guesses and assumptions. This thread is getting on a year old and we still don't know who Canseco was talking about, if anybody really.