Scoreboard Triple Crown

[kingjammy24]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

To give anyone an idea, Carl Hubbell died in 11/88. I bet that the photo was done in 1986. Pretty sure Mays was in a uniform in spring training starting in '86.

no need to guess. i'll tell you..it was taken in spring training '86.



"Mays, 54, who played for the Giants for 20 years, will rejoin the team as a full-time special assistant to general manager Al Rosen. Mays will not travel with the Giants. He will be with them during spring training and will work with their farm clubs"

every single thing i've read, which has been a decent amount thus far, says that mays attended Giants ST camps in the late 80s and did coach or instruct their players during that time. i read first-person accounts from giants players saying willie showed up and helped them out.

rudy.

[lon lewis]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

If there was a properly tagged and sized '86 jersey up for auction, it would have been worn during the regular season not spring training. Once again,to repeat myself, the Giants ordered their jerseys during spring training for use in the upcoming season in this case 1986. Also, there was a directive from Al Rosen that mandated the Giants wear their regular jerseys for any game in spring training that the public was charged admission. "B" games and other workout situations were exempted. In 1986, those jerseys were the 1985 jerseys. The workout tops ( or BP jerseys) were mfr'd by Wilson and were mesh. If Mays was wearing a regular jersey in '86 spring training it would have been an '85 that was either a blank or # changed that was made up for him.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i found this:



rudy.

[lon lewis]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

Rudy, nice of you to post a newspaper article of what I already knew but to enlighten those who believe everything written in the papers, Mays contrary to what was published, wound up spending longer in '86 spring training than was written, he also made at least 2 road trips with the team( east coast) and was in the Giants Candlestick clubhouse for almost every game during the '86 season. He also found time to visit both Phoenix (AAA) and the single A affiliate but I don't know if he was at the AA team's location. As far as "coaching" I was referring to his regular season activities. (this is what those jerseys are purported to be) In fact, There are a lot of "instructors/ coaches" involved in spring training that aren't actually involved with the team in that capacity during the regular season. Of course the next leap will probably be that the ebay jerseys in question will magically become "spring training coaches" jerseys. ( due to in no small part to the info on here ) the problem with that would be the Giants used the previous years jerseys for the spring training games where mandated. Oh yeah, if these jerseys were issued to Mays by the Giants, how come you never see a McCovey jersey? They both were "special assistants" and both attended spring training and the last time I looked, both were in the HOF. Now I remember--- McCovey wasn't featured on QVC. Must be a coincidence.

[zonker]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

lon thanks for the info, but i wasn't the one who said they seen these jerseys in dick's house and considered buying one? nor was i the one who stated dick sells whatever the giants sent him. my confusion there as i still thought we were talking about score board jerseys. i was repeating what i read on here and all of the pictures of willie 89-90 are all showing him in rawlings jerseys not a wilson spring training jersey even at the opening day ceremonies. how the thread got back to 86 i don't know. i thought we were talking about 89 on and score board jerseys and why they were not tagged like the giant issued or other score board jersey's. i guesss that is still a mystery . i appreciate your time and explanations on the jerseys and don't worry. i get it! i just like a little proof with someone's opinion on something like this. thats all. would still like to see a rael giants 89-90 issued mays jersey with proper tagging. again i believe these on ebay to be score board. it just seems that if there are 660 of them out there you would see them more often?

[lon lewis]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

Zonker, Although Cohibasmoker is the first to mention seeing Mays jerseys at Dobbins house in 1989 he doesn't say anything about the tagging of those jerseys or even if they were 1989 jerseys when he was there or any other details. Only that he saw Mays jerseys. You took the leap to state that they were the same as what is being offered. Cohibasmoker also does admit that his memory is a little "sketchy" ( whose isn't after 20 years) and a couple of things attributed to Dobbins were off the mark. For example,The Giants used a vertical arc style of NOB lettering. That style of lettering doesn't lend itself to swapping letters. The Giants used jerseys with the NOB directly on the jersey. Not in the regular season.
I think we got into 1986 because it was stated that Mays was re-instated in 1989- people corrected that and then started to expand on the idea with articles and photos. The fact that you don't see as many Scoreboard jerseys for sale as were sold, means nothing unless you think that everyone who owns one has to sell it. How many of the approximately 12 from 1986 do you see for sale?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i've also seen a fair number of these. i have many 1989 A's gamers in my photo library and none are tagged in this way. and again, it has a 1990/91 rawlings tag. scoreboard?



rudy.

[zonker]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i'm sorry i misunderstood. i assumed that when he stated that he saw mays jerseys at dick's in 1989 that it was like or because of the mays jersey's in question. so the purchased from giant's with the star will clark jersey kingjimmy posted was fabricated and attributted to the giants and dobbins? did dick normally intial jersey's like the one they said was a legit ckark and do you think all these mays/clark 4 digit jersey's were like a 1st generation score board jersey and because of the 4 digit tagging really didn't go over to well with the game used collectors so they changed the tagging to be identicle to legit gamers in 90-91? i have seen the score board jerseys with the flag tags that read set2 with extra 1inch home jersey's everywhere. why were these differant. i don't mean to be a bother everybody with all these questions. i'm just trying to learn.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i doubt i'll get the answers but here's what i'd still like to know:

1) why did scoreboard receive pro-tagged shirts? marichal, i know you said it was about marketing and that game-issued shirts would sell for more but if that were the case then why were these jerseys not specifically marketed as "game issued" or something similar? they were simply sold as "autographed jerseys".

2) it seems i misspoke when i said that all scoreboard shirts were tagged identically to the real pro versions. the 1989 nolan ryan, 1989 reggie jackson, and 1989 will clark/willie mays didn't seem to be tagged as their pro counterparts were. why not? the 1989 bo jackson, 1990 canseco, strawberry and jeffries were all correctly tagged.

it'd be great if anyone could post any of the original advertisements for these things. maybe someone can call up ken goldin and ask him.

zonker: jim simply said that when he went to dobbins' home, he saw mays jerseys. that's it. he never said or implied how they were tagged, what year they were from, or even if they were home or road shirts. several team shirts have used the "purchased from.." stamps including the A's, giants, and indians. maybe the angels. i remember hearing that robb wochnick, formerly of sports warehouse, would stamp shirts he received from teams. i also remember hearing that it was not the teams that affixed those stamps. what dobbins specifically did or didn't do, i do not know. i do know that information pertaining to what dobbins did has been explained here on the forum before so you can do a search for it. discussing the AMI will clark is difficult because there are no photos showing the tagging or the stamp. the reason i posted the willie mays pics was to establish a) whether willie appeared at spring training b) whether he ever wore giants jerseys in the 80s. i posted the pic of the '86 shirt simply because it pertained to the topic of what willie wore/would've worn in giants spring training. was the shirt i posted good? i have no idea. i know it seems odd to me that the nameplate had so much pinching on the sides.

for me, a 1989 jersey with a 1990/91 rawlings tag is a rare thing. the very few legit examples i've seen were all benchwarmers. yet here you have a constant flood of this specific anomaly all by superstars. reggie, willie, bo, nolan ryan. it simply doesn't make sense that this anomaly would've occurred in this capacity in a legit setting. if you look at the 1989 nolan ryan shirts with "34 1 1989" tagging..again, 1990/91 rawlings tags with 1989 strip tags. multiple times over..because apparently late in the 1989 season ryan felt the need to start wearing rawlings shirts? if you see this anomaly on many jerseys from a superstar, common sense tells you something isn't right.

rudy.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

The mentions of the regular season use of the 1986 Giants Willie Mays jersey as well as the lack of a corresponding amount of 1989 Giants McCovey jerseys to exist with the Mays versions further proves the point. While we're at it, if all those 1989's were team-issued/GU pieces, how come there are no road greys? You'd think Mays travelled at least once or twice during the season, not to mention possible Old-Timers appearances in other cities that some wrongfully try to make the Score Board versions out to be.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[lon lewis]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

For all of you who have been following this thread, I decided to check out the '89 Clark but as mentioned before, there are no photos of the tagging so just going by the front and back photos, I compared it to the tapes of the '89 series (games 3 &4) and the jersey offered is NOT what Clark wore in those games. In addition to the armband being in the wrong position, the NOB is up much higher on the AMI jersey than where it was positioned on the Clark WS jersey. I have no idea what that star is- it is NOT something that Dobbins would have done. By way of a possible explanation for the AMI jersey, there were a number of bogus Clark 1989 WS jerseys in circulation in the bay area in early 1990. All were produced by the same individual and all had the same characteristics including a "purchased from" stamp however, that stamp while being a close duplicate, was a little off. Just for Rudy, I've attached a photo of Mays from 1986 that is part of a photoshoot for one of the sports publications that year. the actual photo is 11X14 so I could only scan half. The jersey that Rudy posted and subsequently questioned is identical to that one in the tagging, size, right down to the "puckered" NOB. By way of explanation the "puckering" is a result of Wilson using a very tight zig-zag stitch on the NOB plate on that style of jersey and as a result, once the jersey has been laundered, what you see there happens. The second photo shows the back of the jersey mays is wearing. One other interesting thing that I noticed on the '89 tapes ( game 3) in the opening sequence there is a pan of one side of the Giants clubhouse that shows the Giants jerseys hanging name & # side out. Clark's alternate jersey (sans patch) is shown. What caught my eye was that it's a McAdams NOB on that jersey.

[Marichal27]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i've also seen a fair number of these. i have many 1989 A's gamers in my photo library and none are tagged in this way. and again, it has a 1990/91 rawlings tag. scoreboard?




rudy.

Rudy....Since Jackson was working for the Yankees in 1989, what do you think these are?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

Rudy....Since Jackson was working for the Yankees in 1989, what do you think these are?

you're saying this is incorrect?:

"He served as an advisor to the Oakland A's from 1988 to 1993, and the New York Yankees beginning in 1993."

anyway, the ebay seller got an interesting comment on his ebay listing:

"Q: Hello, I own this exact signed jersey. This jersey was offered by QVC in 1993 with a special appearance by Reggie Jackson honoring him as a HOFer..."

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i wonder what year these are from:



rudy.

[Marichal27]

Re: Scoreboard Triple Crown

i wonder what year these are from:



rudy.

More than likely in 1987, when Jackson last played for the A's. Too bad they weren't wering there regular jseys since in '87, the A's had their All-Star Game patch. If someone has an A's or Yankees media guide from '88 or in that period, at least after '87, in the Yankees guide there should be something in there about Jax being a consultant or whatever position he had. That woud solve that problem.