The Yankees, baseball and money

[mbenga28]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

it's rather outrageous when players charge $500 for an 8x10 signed photograph.

[joelsabi]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

On the OTHER side of the coin - yes, I do bitch because the Rockies are CHEAP and won't spend the money it takes sometimes to get deals done - but, in their defense, they have made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years including a WS berth... that said, my understanding of the 'luxury tax' revenue was to be used to BETTER the team - not update or expand the facilities, etc... well, I'm sure the Rox collect a healthy check for their cut from the Yankees luxury tax dollars, but their payroll hasn't changed in like 5 years - around $54m pretty consistently. So I don't know what they are doing with the money, but it ISN'T going into the team...

Chris,

As you alluded to, one of the problems with the current system is that those teams that receives money do not put the money back into player salaries. I wish the system can be modified, whether it is installing a salary cap or not giving money to owners that do not use the money towards salaries.

I would think there is an association of fan loyalty, even player loyalty, with the willingness to spend money on player salary. Some teams are not willing to increase team payroll and the disparity of salary is greatest it has ever been. A long time ago, Bob Costa wrote a contoversial book about have both a minimal team payroll and team salary cap. Maybe the time has come to have a commissioner that is willing to look into it or something moving in that direction. Granted the player association have always been against salary cap so it will be a tough battle but Selig is not the man for the job. We have seen how he dealt with steroids.

What I do not want to see is another Steroid like controvery that affects the integrity of the game. bud Selig states that baseball has been seen its greatest popularity while he has been commissioner but at what long term expense. The crapping on history hallowed baseball records and the alienation of baseball fans in non large populated markets?

[BULBUS]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

A reason for the Yankees enormous payroll is, when you have young guys that become stars (Jeter, Rivera, Posada), its going to take a lot of money to keep them. The Yankees have the money and they keep and reward their players.

Rudy mentions the payrolls of the last few WS winners. Look at the Phillies, they went from the 12th highest payroll in 2008 before the won, to like the 4th or 5th highest. They had to pay up to retain and reward players. If they are to continue competing with their current team, their payroll will skyrocket.

[allstarsplus]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

winning a WS with an all-star team and the highest payroll in baseball doesn't strike me as a testament to accomplishment. the fact that the yankees didn't do it since 2000 strikes me as an testament to mismanagement and failure. only cashman could blow over $200mm on 4 players (pavano, igawa, giambi, brown) and still have a job and enough money leftover to buy even more superstars. to win a WS other teams have to overachieve. the yankees simply have to not screw up; to get out of their own way.



rudy.

I have to agree with that and Cashman is one lucky man. Also, I don't even think at times they negotiate contracts well which is the job of the GM. Nick Swisher went well above in salary where anyone had predicted and CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett went at the top of projections.

The small market teams have to be more creative and adept at squeezing buffalos off of old nickels.

So do the Yankees go after Matt Holliday and John Lackey now as they are going to possibly drop Damon and Matsui and need a 5th starter?

[bigtime59]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

Agreed.

As I have said time and time again to you bigtime don not be mad at the Yankees for spending the money be mad at your team for not.

You cannot spend that which you do not have!
Revenue sharing is the answer!

[bigtime59]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

Why don't you cry us a river like you do all the time. Like i have said many times if your team spent the same type of money you would love it.

My team doesn't spend the same type of money because MY TEAM DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME KIND OF MONEY TO SPEND!
This is why it's about REVENUES not SALARIES and why MLB needs to share all revenues equally among all teams!

[xpress34]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

On the OTHER side of the coin - yes, I do bitch because the Rockies are CHEAP and won't spend the money it takes sometimes to get deals done - but, in their defense, they have made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years including a WS berth... that said, my understanding of the 'luxury tax' revenue was to be used to BETTER the team - not update or expand the facilities, etc... well, I'm sure the Rox collect a healthy check for their cut from the Yankees luxury tax dollars, but their payroll hasn't changed in like 5 years - around $54m pretty consistently. So I don't know what they are doing with the money, but it ISN'T going into the team...

Now, as far as the 'Money Buying Championships', obviously the 2001-2008 Yanks proved that to be a falsehood - BUT, money can and does help control who has the advantage of talent. Example - in 2000, the Yankees BOUGHT Jose Canseco's contract for more than it was worth, JUST so that the Red Sox couldn't have his bat to help them compete. In his book, Canseco openly talks about Torre telling him upon his arrival in NY, not to expect any playing time. He was brought in simply to block the Sox from aquirring him. And the Yanks won the WS that year.

On the negative side of just buying players, the yankees have had their share of bruised egos too. Big money means big egos and Prima Donnas. That is why many small and mid market teams have had success - chemistry between the players - and why the Yanks of the 50's and 60's had success- team chemistry.

You have to invest in a player's make up and how he will fit in your clubhouse just as much as you invest into his wallet.

Just my .02

- Chris

[yanks12025]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

i think everyone would agree. however, i think what most are commenting on is how the yankees win. people have more respect for skill than for someone whose sole talent is signing the biggest paychecks. when the yankees win a WS its simply because they bought the most expensive players. when other teams win a WS its through real skill in GM'ing, coaching, etc. here's some data i've compiled. below are some years the yankees won a WS (any missing years are due to me being unable to find the payroll data). beside each yankees WS year is their payroll rank:

2009 - highest payroll
2000 - highest payroll
1999 - highest payroll
1998 - 2nd highest payroll
1996 - highest payroll
1978 - highest payroll
1977 - 2nd highest payroll
1956 - highest payroll
1953 - 2nd highest payroll
1950 - highest payroll
1943 - highest payroll
1939 - highest payroll

during the "lost decade" when the billionaire boys club couldn't get their act together, here's how other WS teams did it:

2001 Diamondbacks - 8th highest payroll
2002 Angels - 15th highest payroll
2003 Marlins - 26th highest payroll
2005 White Sox - 13th highest payroll
2006 Cardinals - 11th highest payroll
2008 Phillies - 12th highest payroll

steinbrenner and cashman don't think their way to a WS. they just spend their way there. a shaved ape could do it as long as his wallet was big enough. cashman's spent his entire career with the yankees. send him to the A's or the indians and he'd be in last place every year. so while there's nothing 'wrong' with how the yankees win, there certainly isn't a whole lot to admire about it either.

rudy.

So even though Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle were all home grownen players it dont matter becuse they were maing the big bucks. Well they were the top players of the game at the time. The yankees like to give their players large contracts(Jeter,Mo, Jorge).

[joelsabi]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

cashman's spent his entire career with the yankees. send him to the A's or the indians and he'd be in last place every year.
rudy.

If only the Yankees had Bill Smith as GM, all the extra championships would have hastened change in the revenue rules by now.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

..if your team spent the same type of money you would love it.

i think everyone would agree. however, i think what most are commenting on is how the yankees win. people have more respect for skill than for someone whose sole talent is signing the biggest paychecks. when the yankees win a WS its simply because they bought the most expensive players. when other teams win a WS its through real skill in GM'ing, coaching, etc. here's some data i've compiled. below are some years the yankees won a WS (any missing years are due to me being unable to find the payroll data). beside each yankees WS year is their payroll rank:

2009 - highest payroll
2000 - highest payroll
1999 - highest payroll
1998 - 2nd highest payroll
1996 - highest payroll
1978 - highest payroll
1977 - 2nd highest payroll
1956 - highest payroll
1953 - 2nd highest payroll
1950 - highest payroll
1943 - highest payroll
1939 - highest payroll

during the "lost decade" when the billionaire boys club couldn't get their act together, here's how other WS teams did it:

2001 Diamondbacks - 8th highest payroll
2002 Angels - 15th highest payroll
2003 Marlins - 26th highest payroll
2005 White Sox - 13th highest payroll
2006 Cardinals - 11th highest payroll
2008 Phillies - 12th highest payroll

steinbrenner and cashman don't think their way to a WS. they just spend their way there. a shaved ape could do it as long as his wallet was big enough. cashman's spent his entire career with the yankees. send him to the A's or the indians and he'd be in last place every year. so while there's nothing 'wrong' with how the yankees win, there certainly isn't a whole lot to admire about it either.

rudy.

[mariner_gamers]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

In my opinion the strongest marketing tool MLB has are the New York Yankees. People love a winner, people hate a winner. The Yankees play the heavy and they do it better than any team in US professional sports.

MLB fans are more inclined to follow individual players rather than a team. The NFL has no guaranteed money, short careers and was made for TV. This is condusive to folks following a team rather than a player and why my strictly football friends can not stand baseball. MLB is smart because they know they cannot compare to the NFL on TV. What they can do is play up the individual and play up the heavy. Sure follow your favorite player until his team is eliminated and then what?? Well if the Yankees are playing you watch and root against them.

The most popular team in baseball are people who hate the Yankees. If the Yanks won it every year fans would leave baseball in droves but they don't. They win just enough to piss people off and keep the hope alive that next year they will get creamed. Being a Yankees fan I can tell you the amount of email I get when the Yanks lose in the playoffs is a testament to their ability to draw and drive MLB.

Without big hits and big t!ts from 23 different angles after each down baseball has gone back to Vaudeville in order to keep folks coming back. Build a heavy, build some hero's and let the audience have fun.

[suave1477]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

Why don't you cry us a river like you do all the time. Like i have said many times if your team spent the same type of money you would love it.

Agreed.

As I have said time and time again to you bigtime don not be mad at the Yankees for spending the money be mad at your team for not.

[yanks12025]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

It's ALWAYS been about money with the Yankee$, going back to the days of Rupert and Huston. They've always had more than anyone else and they've been quite ruthless about using it to their advantage.
The advantages of that imbalance were a lot less obvious when signing a major league contract wasn't a whole lot different than being taken prisoner. And the failings and flailings of the CBS-era and early George $teingrabber "you too can be a MLB general manager...just watch me" period showed that even if the stupid kid does have more money than some countries he won't jeapordize the others too much. But the simple fact of the matter is the Yankee$ have missed the playoffs one time since 1995 and the revenue discrepancies between them and the rest of the league just continue to grow and grow and grow and grow...
If MLB wants to be truly competitive--rather than sham competitive--it is going to have to abandon its fine-for-1869 system of (not) sharing local revenues...or it's going to have to get rid of the unbalanced schedule, divisions and interleague play...hell, maybe it needs to do all those things to truly level the playing field. Until then--as long as the Yankee$ can pay their infield more than half the other teams in the league pay their entire active rosters--the game isn't fair and the field isn't level; especially if you're a fan of the Orioles, Jays or Rays.
(Here comes the oooh, yeah! The Rays won the East in 2008! MLB has parity! contingent...where did the Rays finish in 2009? Exactly where I predicted: third, behind the Yankee$ and Red $ox. Shocking...utterly shocking.)

Why don't you cry us a river like you do all the time. Like i have said many times if your team spent the same type of money you would love it.

[bigtime59]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

It's ALWAYS been about money with the Yankee$, going back to the days of Rupert and Huston. They've always had more than anyone else and they've been quite ruthless about using it to their advantage.
The advantages of that imbalance were a lot less obvious when signing a major league contract wasn't a whole lot different than being taken prisoner. And the failings and flailings of the CBS-era and early George $teingrabber "you too can be a MLB general manager...just watch me" period showed that even if the stupid kid does have more money than some countries he won't jeapordize the others too much. But the simple fact of the matter is the Yankee$ have missed the playoffs one time since 1995 and the revenue discrepancies between them and the rest of the league just continue to grow and grow and grow and grow...
If MLB wants to be truly competitive--rather than sham competitive--it is going to have to abandon its fine-for-1869 system of (not) sharing local revenues...or it's going to have to get rid of the unbalanced schedule, divisions and interleague play...hell, maybe it needs to do all those things to truly level the playing field. Until then--as long as the Yankee$ can pay their infield more than half the other teams in the league pay their entire active rosters--the game isn't fair and the field isn't level; especially if you're a fan of the Orioles, Jays or Rays.
(Here comes the oooh, yeah! The Rays won the East in 2008! MLB has parity! contingent...where did the Rays finish in 2009? Exactly where I predicted: third, behind the Yankee$ and Red $ox. Shocking...utterly shocking.)

[joelsabi]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

My last comment is on the Dynasty years of the Yanks, i.e. the 20's to the 70's. The Yankees were a vicious circle ever since Murders Row. The best players wanted to play for the best team which made them the best team because the best players chose to play for them. It wasn't about money, it was about wanting to play for the Yankees because it seemed that all the best players played for them. There was no draft, no free agency. If you were really talented, you could just sign with whoever you want. Why play in Kansas City for the struggling A's and a bunch of nobody's when you could bat after Mantle, Maris, DiMaggio, RUTH, Gehrig etc? Essentially, the Draft, Free Agency, ideas for revenue sharing and evening out the talent pool just seems to be all due to the actions of the New York Yankees.

However, I'm just a bitter Braves fan who feels cheated by the Yankees and Mets (specifically the 2000 season) so while my opinions are valid I'd admit I realize I am somewhat biased.

Great Post. If I didnt know any better I would think you were a Yankee fan.