The Yankees, baseball and money

[gridman80]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

I see post after post about the Yankees "buying" the World Series. In regards to this several things.
First, baseball doesn't set a salary cap. The Yankees are allowed to spend. So there is no cheating involved which is sometimes sort of implied.
Second, there is no question being able to spend is an advantage, but not an insurmountable one and not a guarantee of winning. The Yankees had not won a world series since 2000 and missed the playoffs last year. They paid out a lot of money for pitchers and other players who were busts. The Texas Rangers had a payroll similar to the Yankees a few years ago with ARod and Chan Ho Park and went nowhere. In the fact the Rangers where the first team to pay a player over $20 million a year.
Third, people imply the Yankee have always out spent other teams. In fact, most of the Yankee Championships came in the 1920's, 30's, 40's,50's until 1965. There were no free agents then and clubs signed players cheaply and tired to keep salaries down. Joe DiMaggio was offered a cut in salary after his 56 game hitting streak. The Yankees won because they scouted and signed players like DiMaggio, Berra, Mantle, Ford, etc. Other teams could have had these players but didn't. The first Yankee Championship in 96 did not come with high salaried players. And the "core 4" of this years team, Jeter, Rivera, Posoda, and Pettite were not expensive free agents but came from good scouting.
If Baseball wants a salary cap they can have one. Until then the Yankees are playing within the rules. I don't hear Dodger fans whining about how much Ramirez is paid or Boston fans gripping about their payroll. If either of those teams had won the World Series this year you would not have heard how they "bought" the series.
The Yankees were a successful team before expensive free agents and they would still be successful if there was a salary cap. Face it, while some players do not want to live in New York there are a lot more more that would go there rather than Kansas City, Pittsburgh, etc.
Again, while there is some truth that money gives the Yankees an advantage the Yankee haters use it as an excuse to down grade the accomplishment of winning.

Joe will wear #28 next year baby...I'll be there opening day when the quest begins again...

[bigtime59]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

But yet in the 70's & 1980's when the Yankees did not have the highest attendance and other teams were making more money from attendance alone. The Yankees had to go into there own personal pockets to get the funds to start bringing in the big names.

So why shouldn't for example the Orioles owner do the same??? Are you honestly telling me in his own savings bank, investors, etc....... couldn't raise a few more scheckles to bet some bigger name players???

I'm sure you didn't intend it that way, but the part in bold is the funniest thing I've ever read on these boards. I will bet everything I have that--outside the original purchase price--George Steinbrenner has never, never put a penny of his own cash into the Yankee$ payroll.

One, because he never had too, and two, because that's not how billionaires do things.

Let us never forget that George W Bush "bought" a controlling interest in the Texas Rangers using about $75 of his own dollars (which was about all he had at the time...he didn't suddenly become a screwup in 2001) and a bunch of cash borrowed from his daddy's rich friends; never put a dime into the franchise and then sold "his" share to Tom Hicks for boatloads of cash. And Bush actually likes the game!

The vast majority of baseball's owners are in the game for one reason: to show off their shiny, profitable toy to their rich friends. (Or to compensate for tiny winkys...take your pick.) Once they've acquired the shiny toy, they don't put their own money into it. They take money out of it. That, sadly, is why proper revenue-sharing and a level playing field are always receeding over the distant horizon. Everybody's making money, and five of the six divisions are somewhat competitive--at least enough to fool most of the people most of the time, and the "commissioner" all of the time--so why rock the boat???

[karamaxjoe]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

they're like a billionaire who walks into a golddiggers convention, manages to find a wife and thinks their accomplishment is no different than an average guy marrying his college sweetheart. yeah, they both ended up with wives but its not nearly the same thing.

That's a brilliant anology of the most successful team in sports. I wish I had thought of it myself.

IMO the system is broke, but the owners don't care to fix it. It's going to take more than a few teams to go broke before they even think of fixing the unballanced league. Until then, the Yanks will continue to play by the rules and probably win a few more titles.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

jason: in general, i'm sure that many teams don't plow as much as they could or should into payroll. however, neither you nor i have any clue about how much personal money any ownership team does or doesn't put into their team. i'm not sure what enables you to think otherwise. you imply other owners don't put enough of their personal fortunes into their teams. how on earth would you know how much various owners personally have and how much of their personal stash they spend or don't spend on their teams?

you brought up the 80s and showed the dodgers attendance figures. i assume your point was that the dodgers made more money during that time period. gate receipts are only one part of the entire financial picture. that said, the dodgers did win the WS in '88 over an incredible and heavily favored A's squad, and the yankees didn't win anything during that decade. maybe that suggests that, unlike other teams, the only way the yankees can win is by spending $50mm+ more than everyone else. anyway, at the end of the day i find the yankees funny. i think its funny that cashman plowed a trillion dollars into the team over the past 9 yrs and the best he could do was 1 WS. i think its funny that people are congratulating arod for finally learning to be a team player after only 16 major league seasons. the yankees bring laughs. respect? not so much. they're like a billionaire who walks into a golddiggers convention, manages to find a wife and thinks their accomplishment is no different than an average guy marrying his college sweetheart. yeah, they both ended up with wives but its not nearly the same thing.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

i thought this was one of the more amusing pieces about brian cashman that i've read in a while. if you're in the mood for a good laugh: http://www.mensjournal.com/brian-cashman

rudy.

Also, besides the Cash-man, is Joe Torre who basically had a miserable first 15 years in his managerial career except 1 year the Braves made the 1st round of the playoffs prior to stepping to the top step of the dugout of the Yankee$.

Joe Torre will probably be a HOF Manager and I say as quoted by another GUU member it is the great players that usually make managers look great.

In Torre's first 15 years of managing the Mets, Braves and Cardinals----he never won 90 games in a season. Then he gets handed the Yankees job and steps into the Dodgers job.

[allstarsplus]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

i thought this was one of the more amusing pieces about brian cashman that i've read in a while. if you're in the mood for a good laugh: http://www.mensjournal.com/brian-cashman

rudy.

That is hilarious! These 2 paragraphs are classic but probably not totally accurate as Teixeira did want to be in NYC as his wife spilled in an interview.

Specifically, they overpaid. They spent many millions more than other teams would have paid for guys who clearly preferred, all things being equal, to be somewhere else. Teixeira probably wanted to be in his hometown of Baltimore. Sabathia would have liked to go back to Milwaukee or home to the West Coast, but definitely in the National League, where he’d get to hit. Burnett, he’s a guy all of baseball knows would rather play in a low-intensity/small-market environment like Toronto.

They all made a show of preferring some other situation before quietly, somberly almost, taking the big money and going to New York. Basically, Brian Cashman hired a team full of Brian Cashmans, i.e., guys who passed up the girl they really liked to marry the Boss’s bucktoothed, cross-eyed daughter. They might do their nightly duty in the sack, but they’re not going overboard. They’re not buying her flowers on the way home from work or taking her on surprise trips to Paris for Valentine’s. And their excuse for being crappy husbands is built into the deal: They never really loved her to begin with.

[skyking26]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

A salary cap without revenue sharing simply is a way to make the rich teams more profitable. Why else would the Red $ox be in favor of one?

Ok, whatever it takes so the $$ field is even. Hard for the Royals to compete with GEORGE.

[suave1477]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

"Your teams do have the money they just don't put it back into the team."

i truly don't mean any offense but i think it would be great if yankees supporters would start dealing with facts. making things up isn't helping anyone. other teams do have roughly the same amount of money as the yankees? the closest team is $64mm away. the next team? $92mm away. it's not even close:

2008 Revenues
NYY $327mm
Red Sox $263mm
NYM $235mm
LAD $224mm
CHC $214mm
LAA $200mm
ATL $199mm
SFG $197mm
STL $194mm
PHI $192mm
SEA $194mm
HOU $193mm

Bottom 5
OAK $154mm
KCR $131mm
PIT $139mm
TBR $138mm
FLA $128mm

jason was addressing mark sutton's comment. mark's team is the orioles. the orioles revenue was $166mm. nyy revenue was $327mm. see mark, your team does have the money! only $166mm less than the yankees.

rudy.

KingJammy no offense taken at all this is just an informative debate between friends.

I may have not made myself clear.

First of all those are the revenues generated by each team correct?
And that is fine yes teams make more money than others no secret there. My point was more towards the revenue sharing part of it where the more revenue making teams when sharing there funds to other teams, other teams have been know to take the extra money and buy there owners that new mansion, rolls royce, or gold toilet bowl instead of being put back into the team (This is an exagerration but you catch my drift)

As far me saying your team does have the money. I was really meaning that universally as far as team across the board not just pinpointing the Orioles.

Again I will point out yes in 2008 the Yankees did generate on there own that kind of money from whatever it is, ticket sales, Merchandise, TV Network, etc.......

But yet in the 70's & 1980's when the Yankees did not have the highest attendance and other teams were making more money from attendance alone. The Yankees had to go into there own personal pockets to get the funds to start bringing in the big names.

So why shouldn't for example the Orioles owner do the same??? Are you honestly telling me in his own savings bank, investors, etc....... couldn't raise a few more scheckles to bet some bigger name players???

[coxfan]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

While I congratulate Yankee fans, I want to correct and amplify some historical stuff posted earlier.

1) Even in the old days of the Reserve clause, the Yankees had a big advantage over lesser-revenue teams when it came to buying players. Connie Mack once said he balanced the A's budget, when his own teams were non-contenders, by selling his top prospects to richer teams. Babe Ruth was already a super-star with the Red Sox before the Yankees paid much more than other teams could afford, to get him.

2) Most of the Yankees' old Championships involved beating out only five contending teams in their league, since the Senators, A's, and Browns were rarely contenders. Then they went straight to the World Series. If they'd had today's 30 teams and the playoff's, they'd have had far fewer championships!

3) I'm old enough to recall when the Kansas City A's were a virtual minor-league team of the Yankees, thanks to a conflict of interest by the A's owner who also had a financial tie to the Yankees. The great dynasty of the Stengel years had the A's regularly "trading" up their top players ( such as Maris), to the Yankees.

[bigtime59]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

I agree. I believe there should be a salary cap. Level the field and maybe the free spending will cease and smaller market teams will have a better chance.

A salary cap without revenue sharing simply is a way to make the rich teams more profitable. Why else would the Red $ox be in favor of one?

[skyking26]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

You are right, it doesn't guarantee anything, but there is just something wrong the system that allows that to happen.........

I agree. I believe there should be a salary cap. Level the field and maybe the free spending will cease and smaller market teams will have a better chance.

[kingjammy24]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

i thought this was one of the more amusing pieces about brian cashman that i've read in a while. if you're in the mood for a good laugh: http://www.mensjournal.com/brian-cashman

rudy.

[bigtime59]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

The billionaire owners have done an absolutely stellar job at getting the poor fans pissed off at the millionaire players by having the salary figures in everyone's faces while the true revenue figures are almost impossible to come by. The Yankee$ revenues quoted above are almost certainly low by 25% or more because the YES Network (conveniently owned by the Yankee$) pays pennies on the dollar for their broadcast rights. Thus the Yankee$ get to hide revenues that should be shared with the rest of the league...and don't even get me started on how the other 29 teams in MLB are being forced to chip in for the Albert Speer-designed ATM/Airport lobby that is New Yankee $tadium (complete with moat to keep the commoners out of the good sections!)!

[joelsabi]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

Rudy, I would add 2 words to this statement.

Winning simply by spending SO MUCH more usually doesn't impress people.

In football, there is a salary cap and I don't mind if the team at the top of the salaries wins as they are so close in spending but the disparity of what the Yankees spend to the league average is crazy.

The Yankees spent almost 80% more than the next closest team last year!

The great thing is that baseball has shown the last 10 years that the top spenders don't also win the championships! Like was said, the Yankees play within the rules so the championships were won fairly.

We would all be more impressed if the Yankees won with salary cap of some sort. I think Bob Costa was onto something when he said that MLB need to work from both extremes to narrow the salary gap.

At the top of the salary, many of the Yankees signings in recent years have been to prevent the Red Sox from getting the players so I think a cap would be nice. Even negotiating for right to speak to Japanese teams requires cash and most teams cannot afford it and are out of the running. So the salary wars, among other things, have made the salary at the top very high.

At the bottom of the salary are teams that have fire sales once their teams are out of contention, hoping to receive even more revenue by having a low winning percentage. There is no incentive for the lower teams to add salaries to their team. Even with lower fan attendance due to fielding a even worse team towards the end of the season, these poor performing teams are given more revenue based on the current system.

I don't think you can blame the Yankees for working within the system. I think you can blame the League and the Commisioner for wanting to keep this current system at a status quo.

[allstarsplus]

Re: The Yankees, baseball and money

again, nothing wrong with what the yankees do but the flip side is that their championships don't garner as much respect as those won by chicago, arizona, anaheim, florida, etc. and they never will. winning simply by spending more usually doesn't impress people.

rudy.

Rudy, I would add 2 words to this statement.

Winning simply by spending SO MUCH more usually doesn't impress people.

In football, there is a salary cap and I don't mind if the team at the top of the salaries wins as they are so close in spending but the disparity of what the Yankees spend to the league average is crazy.

The Yankees spent almost 80% more than the next closest team last year!

The great thing is that baseball has shown the last 10 years that the top spenders don't also win the championships! Like was said, the Yankees play within the rules so the championships were won fairly.