Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

[mr.miracle]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Realistically: Andre, Smith, Bert.


Alomar?!?! Are you people for real? Come on!! To me that is the ultimate joke.

UHHHH What??? The best second baseman in the game period in the 90's and it is not even close. Other than the spitting incident, I am not sure how anyone can suggest he is not a HOF'er.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=4781279

[mr.miracle]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

And another one. Alomar was not just the best 2nd baseman in the game in the 90's he was one of the top five players at one point in all of baseball.



The First-Timers




Alomar



ROBERTO ALOMAR


There was once a time, in the mid-to-late '90s, when, if you'd asked me to name my favorite player to watch in the whole sport, I'd have answered: Robbie Alomar.
Why? Because he might have been the most creative, most stylish defensive innovator to pass through this game since Ozzie Smith. That's why. Alomar was a guy who made plays no one else made, saw things no one else saw and did it all with a Human Highlight Video flair that leaped off the field at you.
But Roberto Alomar was just as dominant on the other side of the ball. He had a 10-year period (1992 to 2001) in which he LED THE MAJOR LEAGUES in hits. And the three second basemen in history who can match his career numbers (2,724 hits/.300 average/.371 on-base pct./.443 slugging pct.) all started their careers before 1925.
So how anyone could look at Alomar's career and NOT vote for him is a bigger mystery to me than Stonehenge. If the definition of a Hall of Famer is a man who dominated his position for an extended period of time, then think about all this:
Robbie Alomar won more Gold Gloves (10) than any second baseman who ever played. He's the only second baseman in history who ever made 12 All-Star teams in a row. He finished in the top six in five MVP elections. And he and Mike Schmidt are the only two infielders in history with at least 10 Gold Gloves and four Silver Sluggers.
So aside from the disgraceful John Hirschbeck incident, there's no justification -- none -- for leaving Alomar off anyone's ballot. And we've elected players whose careers included worse blemishes than that. If you consider Roberto Alomar's full body of work and look at the entirety of his career, he's a Hall of Famer. Period.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

DON MATTINGLY for sure, if Puckett is in so should Donnie, almost identical numbers. Mattingly was one of the best players on the planet during the mid 80's and carried an awful Yankees team on his back. What other 1st baseman could carry his jock during his day?

George

Hmm, if this is true, why'd he only start one All Star Game? I think McGwire, Carew, Rose, Garvey, and even Al Oliver could, uh, carry his jock. If you look at the lineup of the game he DID start, he's probably the 10th best position player there!

And let's be totally honest, Pucketti isn't exactly a world-class HOFer.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Blyleven,Dawson, and I hope Raines gets closer,he was truly one of the greatest lead off hitters of all time! NO ALOMAR! I know that hofers have done worse but the spitting and personal life in disaster is just too much! I raised my kids and coached them playing ball and even though they sometimes taunted the opposition, I would have ripped them both a new one if they ever spat on someone,anyone.That goes against everything baseball stands for. I would have preferred a fist fight!

How does Alomar's spitting incident compare to Raines' headfirst slide so he wouldn't break the cocaine vial in the back pocket of his uniform?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[mr.miracle]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Here is how the ESPN gang voted. They got it right on the first two IMHO, however Bert, Larkin and Big Mac got my vote as well.



HOW ESPN VOTED

* -- first year on ballot
PLAYERBOBRGEHBJEJIJSMKPGTJTKTQVOTES*Roberto AlomarXXX--XXXXXXXX11 (92%)Andre DawsonX--XXXXXXXXXX11 (92%)Bert Blyleven--XXXXXX------XX8 (67%)*Barry LarkinXXX--XXX--X--X--8 (67%)Mark McGwireXXX--XXX------X--7 (58%)Tim RainesXXX--XXX------X--7 (58%)*Edgar Martinez----X--XXXX----X--6 (50%)Jack MorrisX------XXX------XX6 (50%)*Fred McGriff----X--XXX------X--5 (42%)Lee Smith--XX--------XXX----5 (42%)Alan Trammell----X----X----X--X--4 (33%)Dale Murphy------------X--------X2 (17%)Dave Parker----------------X------1 (8%)
THE VOTERS: BO = Buster Olney; BR = Brendan Roberts; GE = Gordon Edes; HB = Howard Bryant; JE = Jerry Crasnick; JI = Jim Caple; JS = Jayson Stark; MK = Michael Knisley; PG = Pedro Gomez; TJ = Tony Jackson; TK = Tim Kurkjian; TQ = T.J. Quinn

[Chris78]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I think both Alomar and Larkin should be first ballot. Dawson I think will be very close and will make it. Blyleven will be close and might make it. This year we may have 3 or 4 people elected.

Chris

[bronx_burner]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I don't think any of the top 4 first time candidates (Alomar, Larkin, McGriff, Edgar) will get in this year. It will be interesting to see what kind of support they do get though as the first year vote seems to have a real effect on future totals. I think Dawson gets in this year. I think Blyleven will be real close but may not get in till next year. So I think it will be just be the 1 or 2 long timers getting in.

My personal ballot would be Dawson, Blyleven, Trammell, Raines, Mattingly, McGriff and Larkin.

[Manram]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I don't think any of the top 4 first time candidates (Alomar, Larkin, McGriff, Edgar) will get in this year. It will be interesting to see what kind of support they do get though as the first year vote seems to have a real effect on future totals. I think Dawson gets in this year. I think Blyleven will be real close but may not get in till next year. So I think it will be just be the 1 or 2 long timers getting in.

My personal ballot would be Dawson, Blyleven, Trammell, Raines, Mattingly, McGriff and Larkin.

I think that Alomar will make it this year.

[bronx_burner]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I think that Alomar will make it this year.

He certainly will get the most support of the new guys. I just don't think it will be enough this year. If I had to guess I'd say he gets 63%. He might get in, bu thats just my guess.

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

How does Alomar's spitting incident compare to Raines' headfirst slide so he wouldn't break the cocaine vial in the back pocket of his uniform?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

HOW does it compare,not at all! Raines had a 2 year addiction that could have destroyed his own life! Alomar disgraced the entire game. After the Alomar aids rumour,you think the ump checked himself out! The guys a pig!

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

UHHHH What??? The best second baseman in the game period in the 90's and it is not even close. Other than the spitting incident, I am not sure how anyone can suggest he is not a HOF'er.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/...rry&id=4781279

The only argument anyone could have for this guy not only getting in, but being a first ballot guy, is the spitting incident. The umpire whom he spit at has even said he would vote for him if he had the chance. Alomar is a Hall of Famer NOT EVEN CLOSE

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

HOW does it compare,not at all! Raines had a 2 year addiction that could have destroyed his own life! Alomar disgraced the entire game. After the Alomar aids rumour,you think the ump checked himself out! The guys a pig!

The guy may be a pig but one moment should not destroy a career. He is a Hall of Famer without question. He used very poor judgement but if you want to keep him out then there needs to be several players removed for character issues.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Hmm, if this is true, why'd he only start one All Star Game? I think McGwire, Carew, Rose, Garvey, and even Al Oliver could, uh, carry his jock. If you look at the lineup of the game he DID start, he's probably the 10th best position player there!

And let's be totally honest, Pucketti isn't exactly a world-class HOFer.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

If this is all you got, I think you just helped make my point, thanks !!

George

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Blyleven,Dawson, and I hope Raines gets closer,he was truly one of the greatest lead off hitters of all time! NO ALOMAR! I know that hofers have done worse but the spitting and personal life in disaster is just too much! I raised my kids and coached them playing ball and even though they sometimes taunted the opposition, I would have ripped them both a new one if they ever spat on someone,anyone.That goes against everything baseball stands for. I would have preferred a fist fight!

Alomar was the top second baseman in baseball for a dozen years with noone else even close, if he is not a hall of famer it is time to close the place. Personal life? What are you talking about? Whether or not he has AIDS is irrelevant and his business. It sounded more like a shakedown from a bitter exlover than anything else. Anyway Magic Johnson has HIV and he is in the basketball hall of fame and unlike Robbie, Magic was a married man when he got by committing adultery with who knows how many women and who knows how many women got it from him. Look at Puckett, Eck, Cepeda and Boggs all recent hall of famers with personal issues. Puckett had a whole Sports Illustrated cover story devoted to his treatment of women, Eck was an alcholoic, Cepeda had drug problems and Boggs had the Margo Adams scandal. As far as spitting, is that really worse than Juan Marichal attacking someone with a bat during a game or Gaylord Perry doctoring the baseball? They are both hall of famers. And Tim Raines your hall of fame choice was known for sliding head first so as not to harm the illegal drugs in his back pocket and spent much of his career as anything but a star. And Bert B. was probably not even a top ten pitcher from the 1970s-1980s era in which he played. Would you pick him over Seaver, Palmer, Ryan, Carlton, Perry, Jenkins, Niekro or Clemens? The guy pitched 22 years and received a Cy Young vote only four times never finishing higher than 3rd, made only two All Star teams and won only 37 games more than he lost and had one 20 win season.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

How does Alomar's spitting incident compare to Raines' headfirst slide so he wouldn't break the cocaine vial in the back pocket of his uniform?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Agree in principle Ken.

At some point there will be a reality show that goes to graveyards across America and exhumes HOF baseball players to test their bones and what's left of their flesh for evidence of PEDs and illicit/illegal drugs. Only then will we truly find out how many HOF players from the 70's and 80's truly did blow during their playing days. We should have the technology by then.

I mean Paul Molitor was a clean marine for MOST of his career, but he still admitted to having a COKE problem early in his career.

People make mistakes in the heat of competition...and Robbie spitting on Hirschbeck was a mistake that he apologized for.

Raines admitted that he used COKE during his career. So did a few others...probably more than a few. I would guess that the majority of players in the HALL did something over the course of their career that the general public would frown upon, but that's life.

Do you think that the following line was ever muttered in MLB dugouts in the 80's?

"If it's good enough for Lonnie Smith, it's good enough for me. Pass that mirror...."