HOF - Wow

[mr.miracle]

Re: HOF - Wow

Alomar, McGriff and McGwire are all HOFers, Larkin and Raines are not. Once Alomar gets in next yr, the first steroid guy will have ben let in the hall and this should hopefully open the door for McGwire in the future.

Where has Alomar's name ever come up in a discussion of potential steroid users? I have never heard this in any place even as a possibility?

[Nnunnari]

Re: HOF - Wow

That's because the public is still extremely naive regarding steroid use. People think that a huge spike in numbers or a body of Barry Bonds are the only tell tale signs of steroids, when in reality, the majority of players who took steroids showed no such signs, they continued to be average.
Have you seen the size and weight of an Alomar bat? Have you ever seen a quicker fall off and complete end to somebody's career? There are a lot of players who you have never heard steroid rumors about who used. If I had to put money on it, Alomar used. Still an unbelievable player, deserving of the hall, just like McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Pudge, Sheff, Bagwell, Biggio, A Rod etc.

[NYCrulesU]

Re: HOF - Wow

Do you honestly think there are no steroid users in the HOF already? I am sure there are more than a few. I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

[mr.miracle]

Re: HOF - Wow

That's because the public is still extremely naive regarding steroid use. People think that a huge spike in numbers or a body of Barry Bonds are the only tell tale signs of steroids, when in reality, the majority of players who took steroids showed no such signs, they continued to be average.
Have you seen the size and weight of an Alomar bat? Have you ever seen a quicker fall off and complete end to somebody's career? There are a lot of players who you have never heard steroid rumors about who used. If I had to put money on it, Alomar used. Still an unbelievable player, deserving of the hall, just like McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Pudge, Sheff, Bagwell, Biggio, A Rod etc.

At the end of the day, it is all speculation at least in regards to Alomar and any number of players. While we do know some used, there are many that remain complete speculation. I will give you this, his career fell apart very quickly however his health completely declined very quickly and that could be due to any number of issues including this whole AIDS accusation from last year but that really has no bearing on this specific discussion. I would not bet any amount of money on any of these people one way or the other because I am sure that we would all be very surprise by who ultimately used and did not use. BTW, Jimmie Foxx is a perfect example of a player completely losing it at a very young age.

[mr.miracle]

Re: HOF - Wow

You also might want to check out Robin Yount, he got started at 18 Alomar at 20 and they both started to fade pretty fast Yount done at 37 Alomar at 36. If I can find it, there was an article on ESPN a couple of years back about all the MLB HOF calibre players that began their careers at age 20 or younger and how almost across the board, they began a serious precipitous drop off in production at like 34 or 35 years of age. The theory is or was that each player no matter what age they begin has only a certain number of games in them at a high level. The numbers really do tend to bear this out.

[mr.miracle]

Re: HOF - Wow

Just curios as well, does this theory on steroids also pertain to Ken Griffey Jr.? He kind of fits the entire profile and theory of a guy physically falling apart at a young age, getting injured repeatedly and one who never bulked or balloned up yet statistically has become a shell of his former self in every way over the past five plus years.

[dirtyla2000]

Re: HOF - Wow

Until next year. Perhaps then I'll make as many obnoxious and annoying post about it, as you have about him not getting in Then again, I won't. I try not to be a complete ass on message boards.

WHO IS TALKING TO YOU? IF HE IS RELATED TO YOU I M SORRY,IF NOT KEEP COLLECTING YOUR ROID HERO PALMEIRO.HE SHOULD BE GETTING IN THE HALL ... LIKE NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[NYCrulesU]

Re: HOF - Wow

WHO IS TALKING TO YOU? IF HE IS RELATED TO YOU I M SORRY,IF NOT KEEP COLLECTING YOUR ROID HERO PALMEIRO.HE SHOULD BE GETTING IN THE HALL ... LIKE NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[cjclong]

Re: HOF - Wow

I understand that people are upset with steroid users. They have a right to be. However, in some respects I think some take it to extremes. With someone like Palmeiro they act as if he would never have gotten a home run or even a hit without steroids. I suspect they aided him some, but I'm sure he would have had over 500 home runs without them, just maybe not 569. Rather than causing him to hit long home runs in his case it may have kept him from being as tired later on in the season. Palmeiro's home runs came from his swing and timing, not pure power like some of the others. Even before the steroids allegations there was a question as to whether he was a dominant enough player to make the Hall. I was at the game where he hit his 500th home run. I'm disappointed with the steroids, but he is still a player I will always like. And I think the fact that you never see him shows he is disappointed in himself.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: HOF - Wow

Alomar, McGriff and McGwire are all HOFers, Larkin and Raines are not. Once Alomar gets in next yr, the first steroid guy will have ben let in the hall and this should hopefully open the door for McGwire in the future.

Raines is every bit a HOF as any of the others. If Rickey Henderson had not been there, Raines would be thought of as the best base stealer of his generation. 808 SB's are nothing to sneeze at, on top of his other HOF worthy stats.

[ironmanfan]

Re: HOF - Wow

Raines is every bit a HOF as any of the others. If Rickey Henderson had not been there, Raines would be thought of as the best base stealer of his generation. 808 SB's are nothing to sneeze at, on top of his other HOF worthy stats.

other than the stolen bases, I'm curious as to what other "Hall of Fame" worthy stats Tim Raines has?

[Nnunnari]

Re: HOF - Wow

Did you ever watch Raines or Larkin and say to yourself, "wow I'm watching a hall of famer right now?" Probably not, they had very nice careers, but this is the Hall of Fame we're talking about, they aren't quite there, sorry.

Alomar's drop off in production is uncomprable to anybody else, he literally couldn't field a ground ball in spring training and couldn't make the cut with the terrible Devil Rays. He's a Hall of Famer no doubt, all I'm saying is, once he's in, all steroid guys have to get in.

The issue with Palmeiro is, yes he would've most likely been a Hall of Famer off the juice, but he was the one guy dumb enough to get caught and keep doing steroids (detectable) and not HGH (not detectable) once MLB started cracking down. He was a great player with one of the sweetest swings we've seen, but he shouldn't be let in because of his stupidity level alone.

The only other steroid guy who should not get in maybe, is Sosa. He absolutely would not have been a HOFer w/o the juice. Like Luis Gonzalez, very average players who were a product of steroids.

[33bird]

Re: HOF - Wow

I've read a lot of books about Jimmie Foxx and two things did him in at a young age: drinking and a serious sinus problem that they knew nothing about back then. Teddie Ballgame said Foxx always a little flask of whiskey in his locker. When Arod is done and we see always his statistical records, Foxx fans will say "What could have been?"

[NYCrulesU]

Re: HOF - Wow

I understand that people are upset with steroid users. They have a right to be. However, in some respects I think some take it to extremes. With someone like Palmeiro they act as if he would never have gotten a home run or even a hit without steroids. I suspect they aided him some, but I'm sure he would have had over 500 home runs without them, just maybe not 569. Rather than causing him to hit long home runs in his case it may have kept him from being as tired later on in the season. Palmeiro's home runs came from his swing and timing, not pure power like some of the others. Even before the steroids allegations there was a question as to whether he was a dominant enough player to make the Hall. I was at the game where he hit his 500th home run. I'm disappointed with the steroids, but he is still a player I will always like. And I think the fact that you never see him shows he is disappointed in himself.

I feel the same way with Palmeiro,disappointed. But I still like the guy. In a way I am glad he has the poor reputation that he does. Keeps prices REALLY low for me to buy his stuff

[dirtyla2000]

Re: HOF - Wow

I feel the same way with Palmeiro,disappointed. But I still like the guy. In a way I am glad he has the poor reputation that he does. Keeps prices REALLY low for me to buy his stuff

Did everyone forget his finger pointing rant in congress. He too is a coward who commited purgery and then fell off the face of the planet without an explanation.What a role model,what a hero,what a loser!!!!!