Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

[cjclong]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

Suave, I think that unfortunately Hamilton's drug use will likely keep him out of the HOF, but not for the reason you mention. The drugs kept him out of baseball which may very well keep him from reaching the career numbers he needs. Also, there may be long term effects on his health. People are negative on PED's because the look on it as cheating. Everyone knows that cocaine and other drugs are the oppisite of cheating, they harm your perfromance. It like running a race with a weight tied to your ankle. The sad thing is, we will never know how good Hamilton could have been without the damage he did to himself. But the fact that he has frankly acknowleged it and appears to have overcome it is something that I think accounts for part of his popularity. He was voted into the All Star game by the fans last year when he acknowledged his numbers did not deserve it. If he were able to play long enough and put up good enough numbers I think the HOF voters would look at it as triumphing over adversity. Everyone loves the prodigal son story. But this whole question is way ahead of its time. You can't really talk about any players HOF possibllty when he has only played three and a half years and one of them was a poor one.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

I think everyone missed the big picture here which Legal did touch the subject for a bit.

Even if Hamilton was to come close to sniffing the steps of the HALL.

He will not make it in.

People forget just because he didn't take PED'S. He was a drug addict and alcoholic. Which will plague any kind of desicion.

Next to that I will go with I believe it was the second or third posters response. Slim to none.

I think you are way off on this one....He did not cheat the game, he cheated himself and its that human element that people can relate to and forgive....He is very popular in every city the Rangers visit and always answers questions openly and honestly with media.

While his drug abuse will ultimately prevent him from reaching huge milestone numbers, his story has become not a sad tale of drug abuse and a waste of a life but rather a story of INSPIRATION. His story has offered HOPE to many and has touched the lives of more people than you could possibly imagine. EVERY single player, umpire, writer, voter and fan can relate to drug abuse because it has impacted family or friends in some way.

[joelsabi]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

Joel I did read STLHammer he didn't mention Hamiltons drug addiction and alcoholism when he started in baseball. Unless I am missing something.

first sentence. "It doesn't look like his career will be long enough to hit the key milestone numbers" , implying way short of the 500 HR milestone which could be applied to him since he has no connection to PED. Its not a big deal to argue about it just that you think everyone missed the big picture when it's obvious.

[suave1477]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

Joel I did read STLHammer he didn't mention Hamiltons drug addiction and alcoholism when he started in baseball. Unless I am missing something.

[joelsabi]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

I think everyone missed the big picture here which Legal did touch the subject for a bit.

I think we understood the big picture way before Legal spoke extensively. Read STLHAMMER32.

[suave1477]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

I think everyone missed the big picture here which Legal did touch the subject for a bit.

Even if Hamilton was to come close to sniffing the steps of the HALL.

He will not make it in.

People forget just because he didn't take PED'S. He was a drug addict and alcoholic. Which will plague any kind of desicion.

Next to that I will go with I believe it was the second or third posters response. Slim to none.

[joelsabi]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

No chance. He has a few factors working against him.

1. He got a late start for reasons which were solely his fault so his final numbers will not be Hall worthy. A slugging outfielder who hits under 400 career homers is getting nowhere Hall wise. When you factor in the natural decline that age has on all players and his propensity for injuries 400 homers will be hard for him to reach, 350 might even be a streach.

2. He plays in a ballpark that is an offensive hotbed where players put up huge numbers year after year which the voters will take into account.

3. The domiance argument does not work. Pujols and Arod domianted this era. Can anyone really say that Josh is more domiant than Cabera, Ryan Howard or Joe Mauer or some others? Plus he has played four big league seasons. He has had one decent season, two great ones and one poor, injury riddled one. Not quite domiance of an era. Also is he as domiant as a Steve Garvey, Dale Murphy or Don mattingly were in their eras? Those were all MVP winning guys who had some monster years but whose overall numbers fell short of the Hall and who could not get in as domianators. Unlike a Kiner or a Jim Rice he has not domianted the league leaders categories year in and year out for a signifcant time period.

As far as this year I predict he wins MVP. Cano is the fourth best player in his own infield. Cabera has last year's incident still fresh in the writers minds on a team that wont make the playoffs. So I think with the division win and his numbers he wins going away.

I go with the simpleton writers approach which is best player on the best team should be the MVP. Yankees have the best record and Cano is their best player this year. Cano and Gardner carried the Yankees in June while Tex and ARod were ineffective. Cano is a secord half player so he should keep it up.

Cabrera is good. He carried my fantasy baseball team this year.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

No chance. He has a few factors working against him.

1. He got a late start for reasons which were solely his fault so his final numbers will not be Hall worthy. A slugging outfielder who hits under 400 career homers is getting nowhere Hall wise. When you factor in the natural decline that age has on all players and his propensity for injuries 400 homers will be hard for him to reach, 350 might even be a streach.

2. He plays in a ballpark that is an offensive hotbed where players put up huge numbers year after year which the voters will take into account.

3. The domiance argument does not work. Pujols and Arod domianted this era. Can anyone really say that Josh is more domiant than Cabera, Ryan Howard or Joe Mauer or some others? Plus he has played four big league seasons. He has had one decent season, two great ones and one poor, injury riddled one. Not quite domiance of an era. Also is he as domiant as a Steve Garvey, Dale Murphy or Don mattingly were in their eras? Those were all MVP winning guys who had some monster years but whose overall numbers fell short of the Hall and who could not get in as domianators. Unlike a Kiner or a Jim Rice he has not domianted the league leaders categories year in and year out for a signifcant time period.

As far as this year I predict he wins MVP. Cano is the fourth best player in his own infield. Cabera has last year's incident still fresh in the writers minds on a team that wont make the playoffs. So I think with the division win and his numbers he wins going away.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

I'm not optimistic...Josh is a fantastic player but, with his late start as a MLB regular, I fear that he just won't have a long enough career to make it in via the writers ballot. Maybe he can pull a Ralph Kiner...incredible dominance for a decade or so that he might be considered by the Veterans Committee of the future, as long as it isn't comprised of the narrow-minded elitists that populate it currently.

Dave Miedema

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

The only batting stat cano is in the top 5 in batting is avg, and hamilton has him by about 40 points. Hope hambone keeps it up, because daddy wants to go to a playoff game.

good point. he has not reached the 100 HR mark and almost 30. he would need to put in Sandy Koufax type dominance in his 30's to have a chance. Then at least he could get on the ballot.

I would vote for Cano for MVP. great defense and hitting this year from the second baseman.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

If you want to see the best single game performance by a non pitcher from this year watch fridays game on mlbtv. Andre Dawson made the hall so there may be hope, but like stlhammer said he needs to put together about 6-8 mvp caliber seasons to be considered.

[joelsabi]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

It doesn't look like his career will be long enough to hit the key milestone numbers, however this guy is so freakishly talented that you just never know. To me there is two ways to get in the hall, either you have the longetiviy to reach the big milestones like 3000 hits etc or you just flat out dominate year in and year out where there is no question your the best player in baseball. It's possible that he could rack up a few mvps and even do something crazy like a triple crown....if he dominates for an extended period there will be a shot for him. He has a huge following and an incredible story..no PED's and make no mistake about it the guy has hall of fame abilities, those factors at least give him a shot.

As far as the MVP talk goes, if anyone says he isn't the mvp at least up until this point I suggest watching the Rangers each night. His defense this year is what separates him from the other potential candidates. This guy is batting over .360 and is the best outfielder every night he takes the field. He will steal a base in key situations and take an extra base to get in scoring postition. This year he has put it all together, every aspect of the game....you could argue Cabrera possibly but to do that you would have to be talking hitting alone because he has not put together the overall game that Hamilton has.

good point. he has not reached the 100 HR mark and almost 30. he would need to put in Sandy Koufax type dominance in his 30's to have a chance. Then at least he could get on the ballot.

I would vote for Cano for MVP. great defense and hitting this year from the second baseman.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

It doesn't look like his career will be long enough to hit the key milestone numbers, however this guy is so freakishly talented that you just never know. To me there is two ways to get in the hall, either you have the longetiviy to reach the big milestones like 3000 hits etc or you just flat out dominate year in and year out where there is no question your the best player in baseball. It's possible that he could rack up a few mvps and even do something crazy like a triple crown....if he dominates for an extended period there will be a shot for him. He has a huge following and an incredible story..no PED's and make no mistake about it the guy has hall of fame abilities, those factors at least give him a shot.

As far as the MVP talk goes, if anyone says he isn't the mvp at least up until this point I suggest watching the Rangers each night. His defense this year is what separates him from the other potential candidates. This guy is batting over .360 and is the best outfielder every night he takes the field. He will steal a base in key situations and take an extra base to get in scoring postition. This year he has put it all together, every aspect of the game....you could argue Cabrera possibly but to do that you would have to be talking hitting alone because he has not put together the overall game that Hamilton has.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

If he hadnt of lost the 4-5 years id say he would probably be on pace. Injury prone year followed by a great year, followed by injury year, followed by a great year wont be enought to reach 3000 hits, 500 hrs. I think hes coming up on 30. He would have to average 35 hr's a year through his 30's to have a shot. The last guys who did that have all used steroids, or have been suspected of using so there is very little chance. All that coming from a Hamilton collector.

[sportscrazy13]

Re: Josh Hamilton HOF chances?

Slim chance... I think he'll be remembered for a a few monster years.

I wouldn't give him the MVP yet. Him, AROD or Cabrera... who ever has the best finish down the stretch.