Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

I think the true artists of our society write and create works that everyone likes and agrees with. My favorite dessert? White bread, with water on the side for dipping.

[cjclong]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

And I'm sure he is just crushed. There are always people who don't like your work. As Mark Twain once said, "I spoke before an audience in Boston. Three hundred critics."

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Burns made the show so he gets to do what he wants. I guess the lyrics from a song apply, "You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself."

Very true, but if you're making a film for yourself, you're not making it for the fans, to whom this is directed. And, judging from the posts in both this thread and a previous one, a lot of Forum members don't seem to think very much of Mr. Burns' work

Dave Miedema

[cjclong]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Burns made the show so he gets to do what he wants. I guess the lyrics from a song apply, "You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself."

[AM]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

So I watched the 2nd part of "10th Inning" - it was average at best - the first part was exceedingly better - I felt like I was just watching a review of Yanks v. Red Sox - only a fleeting mention of the 2003 World Series upset or Cards winning in 2006 after 24 yrs - Burns even said in the interim PBS interviews that he probably would not have made this if Boston did not win the World Series. And why weren't the Mets given any air time?? It felt rushed and uninspired and plainly a love letter to the Red Sox. Disappointing.

[jdr3]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Dave, The same criticism was made about his series on the Civil War. Additionally, he is a pompus blowhard.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

I passed on the first 9 innings of East Coast MLB Historical Review. I'll pass on the 10th inning of the same, also.

Dave Miedema

[AM]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Missed the premiere but got to watch the encore first part this past Monday and looking forward to the part 2 encore next Monday Nov. 15th

So far so good - cannot yet compare to the original series until I see the rest of the new one and then probably will have to view it a few more times

I did love the stuff on Bonds - both Bobby and Barry - and it seems like Burns' got it right by promoting Barry as the best all-around player - refers to him a few times as supremely talented or multi-gifted and including the brief swipe at McGwire & Sosa not comparing to Bonds was great

In my 20 yrs of following the game, Bonds and Griffey Jr. stand out as the most complete players I've seen - and that's even if you disregard Bonds post-2000 -- ARod & Rickey H. on that list too and Pujols is just an outstanding hitter

[karamaxjoe]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

To me there is a difference between saying I would have liked to see more about my favorite team in the World Series and criticizing the program for not including it.

Favorite team or not, Burns missed the boat by neglecting the 2005 White Sox. The stats don't lie about that team:

(1) The 2005 White Sox broke the 1955 Dodgers' record for consecutive games to start a season where they had a lead.
(2) The 2005 White Sox are one of five teams to go wire-to-wire with the lead ('27 Yanks, '55 Dodgers, '84 Tigers and '90 Reds are the others)
(3) The 2005 White Sox are one of four teams to go wire-to-wire and lead their league in wins ('27 Yanks, '55 Dodgers and '84 Tigers are the others) (4) The 2005 White Sox are one of two teams to go wire-to-wire, lead the league in wins and sweep the World Series ('27 Yanks are the other)
(5) The 2005 White Sox went 11-1 in the post-season, a feat matched only by the '98 Yanks.
(6) The 2005 White Sox finished the year with a 16-1 kick, second only to the '70 Orioles who went 17-1 to finish that year.
(7) The 2005 White Sox broke an 88 year World Series drought.
(8) The 2005 White Sox had the first hispanic manager to win a World Series.

Had a Yankee, Met or Red Sox team matched those stats, Burns would have given them a few more than 14 seconds.

After everything is said and done, White Sox fans are used to stuff like this. We live in a city where the Cubs get most of the love and have to deal with networks like ESPN that focus on a few teams and forgets about the rest of the league.

[cjclong]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Of course you have the right to your opinion and perhaps I should not have used the word griping. But when you go back and look at the posts, if he had put in everything everyone wanted the show would have been hours long. There were things I would have liked to see, but I accept you can't do every thing. To me there is a difference between saying I would have liked to see more about my favorite team in the World Series and criticizing the program for not including it. Maybe it is just me, but I didn't understand your steroid point. Not meant as a criticism, I just was not sure what you had a problem with. As I recall he pointed out Clemons had been charged in connection with steroids. He also mentioned ARod. As you said, Burns is a story teller and I think he used primarily McGuire and Bonds to represent what we believe was use by many players. He also had commentary from people like Costas that the press were turning a blind eye to a problem. Right now we know players used, we don't know all the names or how many and I think it would be irresponsible to take it beyond that.

[sylbry]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

So much was left out. Of course it was, this was a four hour show. If you want all the things that were left out make your own 15 hour show, and then wait for someone to gripe that you left out what they wanted to see most.

Burn's problem (or my problem) is he is a story teller and spent time setting up and telling a story. This works when most people don't remember the subject. However in this case the subject at hand in Inning 10 is fresh in the minds of most who watched it.

Opining isn't griping. I am trying to have an intelligent discussion on the film. Maybe I am in the wrong place.

Yes, Burns has the ability to pick and choose what he wants to cover. And I have the ability to be disappointed in his limited scope and incomplete efforts on selected topics.

Quite frankly I think Burns may look foolish when the final chapter is closed on the steriod era, when all the names come forward that will come forward, when all of the investigations are concluded, and once the HOF and the BBWAA decides what to do with those caught, and all Burns said in his film on the topic was McGwire used Andro and Bonds used stuff because he was angry at the attention inferior players were attaining. Especially since Howard Bryant was interviewed significantly in the film and in my opinion he has written the best book on steriods in baseball to date.

Ken Burns does great work but Inning 10 was not his best.

[Sonny25]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Was there anything on the about Bobby Cox & the Braves?

[cjclong]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

So much was left out. Of course it was, this was a four hour show. If you want all the things that were left out make your own 15 hour show, and then wait for someone to gripe that you left out what they wanted to see most.

[sylbry]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

Sadly, I felt like it missed the mark in every way. The warmth and charm of the original was completely absent. Where the original focused on the players and historical anecdotes that give the game it's unique and enduring appeal, the Tenth Inning struck me as a pedantic and haphazard collection of news accounts, dressed up in purple prose to make them feel epic.

While I'm not fan of Barry Bonds, I found it troubling that Burns presumed to know Bonds' internal motivation at every turn and presented it as absolute fact. It's one thing to do that for Ty Cobb, given the perspective of history and a substantial body of biographical research. It's quite another to do it for a living person, for the sole purpose of making it fit your pre-conceived narrative.

And while I understand that Burns does not present his works as the definitive histories of his subjects, they're documentaries nonetheless, and as such his editorial choices are absolutely baffling.

For example, while I don't slight the attention paid to Ichiro Suzuki, how is it that Albert Pujols, as the best offensive player of the last fifty years and with one of the greatest rookie seasons in history, does not merit a single mention over the course of a four hour program?

East Coast bias is one thing, but for someone who is ostensibly a historian to cast a blind eye to the history being made right in front of their face is both puzzling and inexcusable.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

I agree completely. The original 9 were fantastic. This one felt more like an MLB film.

Regarding Ichiro and the increase of Japanese players, I expected to see something on other like Dice-K, Hideki Matsui, ect... But no, just Ichiro.

So many events and players were left out. What about the White Sox winning in 2005? No mention of that. The congressional hearing, little. (Palmeiro was shown stating he never used steriods but Burns failed to mention that Rafael then failed a steriod test a few months later.) Roger Clemens and his roid and legal issues, none. And how can you discuss Bonds without mentioning Balco or the investigation? The Mitchell Report?

It felt like a collection of World Series recaps combined with a few stories of individuals.

I think more attention was paid to Latin American players who didn't pan out than Latin American players who became a huge success.

In my opinion Ken Burns was lazy.

[cjclong]

Re: Ken Burns - Baseball, "10th Inning" premier Wed

I think on the issue of Ichiro that was an example of oriental position players coming to America, something unique in the games history. Viewers get to say what they whished had been covered and Burns gets to make the film. Just proves you can never please everyone so please yourself. You'll always find a critic.