Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

[cjclong]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

Fnazxc, if you would read what I said I stated that I did not say Jeter was the best fielding shortstop this year and did not say he should get a gold glove this year for what he did in 2001. I said that plays like he made in 2001 are simply noted as another statistic. That is why I think statistics can be misleading. A single fielding play in its importance can count way beyond the single number it adds to statistics. Derek Jeter has been an excellent shortstop over the years for the Yankees which is one of the reasons they have gone to the playoffs and won so mamy world series over the years. I know danm well the Rangers would have liked to have had him over that period of time.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

Jeter is a joke as a gold glove winner. One of the local papers here in New York who normally sings his praises even had an article about how undeserving he was and the voting system needs to be fixed. Longoria over Beltre was a joke as well. Also Hamilton should have won in the outfield. The Mariners were lousy all year they don't rate two awards for anything. None of these choices are as bad as the year Palermiro won despite seldom actually playing first base, he had DHed the vast majority of the year that year.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

if you add 170 million around a crappy shortstop you still should have a chance to go to playoffs and ws So i guess he got the gold glove for a play he made almost a decade ago. You talk about positioning, if his positioning was so good wouldnt he of been in place to get to the balls that he never had a chance at due to his poor range factor?

[cjclong]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

There are a lot of factors that go into fielding. Range is one, but positioning is another. I haven't heard that mentioned. A veteran player who know how to play the hitters may, by how he positions himself, get to balls a player with better range can't reach. There is the old saying that there are, "Lies, damn lies, and statistics." I'm sure some of these fielding stats have there place but only so far. They would not have reflected the play Jeter made to throw out the runner at home on as errant relay throw from the outfield in the 2001 playoffs vs the A's that probably saved the game for NY. That play was just one statistic, but it was a game winner. I'm not going to argue at his age Jeter has the most fielding range or that he is now the best shortstop, but he has been a damn good one over the years. You don't keep going to the playoffs and WS over the years with a shortstop who isn't very good.

[lakeerie92]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

We are talking about a SS, not a 3b. I wasn't dumb luck Alexei Ramirez got more chances than Jeter.

You can't rely on Fielding % alone. You have to look at it in context with range factor. Like I said before, you can't make an error if you can't get to the ball.

I agree with you, I was more or less bored and was playing the devil's advocate and seeing if I could poke holes in the Range Factor statistic.

I mostly agree. Popularity and big market teams always play a big factor into the decision making on these awards.

[5kRunner]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

Range Factor isn't a solid statistic to calculate what he does and doesn't get to though. (Putouts+Assists/Games played) It doesn't factor in anything but an average of what most players might be at. It bases it's calculations of chances to field a ball, but doesn't have anything to adjust for if a position player doesn't have as many ball hit in his vicinity in a season.

For example a third baseman with a pitching staff that is all righties might have less hits come to him in a season if the other team is trying to field the most left handed batters they can in their lineup.

I don't care for Derek Jeter one way or another. I think he is overpaid and hate the Yankees, but when it comes down to Gold Gloves, fielding percentage is one of the few statistics you can rely on. Everything else can be argued away.

We are talking about a SS, not a 3b. I wasn't dumb luck Alexei Ramirez got more chances than Jeter.

You can't rely on Fielding % alone. You have to look at it in context with range factor. Like I said before, you can't make an error if you can't get to the ball.

[5kRunner]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

5k runner where did you get those stats from, id be interested in looking them up for both leagues. Jeter is good at getting ground balls hit right to him, but the going to his right and throwing isnt his strong point anymore. Saw him try it in the alcs and he just looked old.

Baseball Reference has them on the player pages under fielding.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml

[lakeerie92]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

And his range factor is 3.62 vs 4.36 league average. That means he got to 120 less balls than the average SS did this year. He can't make errors if he doesn't get to the ball.

And for the record, I like Jeter. But he should not have won the Gold Glove. I agree with the OP, its a joke.

Range Factor isn't a solid statistic to calculate what he does and doesn't get to though. (Putouts+Assists/Games played) It doesn't factor in anything but an average of what most players might be at. It bases it's calculations of chances to field a ball, but doesn't have anything to adjust for if a position player doesn't have as many ball hit in his vicinity in a season.

For example a third baseman with a pitching staff that is all righties might have less hits come to him in a season if the other team is trying to field the most left handed batters they can in their lineup.

I don't care for Derek Jeter one way or another. I think he is overpaid and hate the Yankees, but when it comes down to Gold Gloves, fielding percentage is one of the few statistics you can rely on. Everything else can be argued away.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

Jeter has perfected that "run right, jump, throw from deep in the hole" thing to its finest. Not only has he reconditioned himself but he is without a doubt, still the top defensive SS in the league. There's some other good players out there, but they'll have to work long and hard to do what he does day in, and day out.

Really?? Jeter was never the top defensive SS in the league. Even after Vizquel left, there was still better. And today, I'd rather have 45-year old Omar playing behind me than Jeter. Jeter just won a "Steve Garvey" Gold Glove: If it's to him, he's great, but if it involves moving or bending over, well, that's why outfielders back up the play.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[mbrieve]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/6238/gold-glove-results-mixed-as-usual

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

yep and elvis andrus was snubbed.

[salukidave]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

In 2010, Alexei Ramirez destroyed Derek Jeter as a defensive shortstop. Ramirez may have made 15 or so more errors, but he made a ton more plays that Jeter can only dream about at this stage of his career. The players got it right when they voted Ramirez as the A.L. all-star shortstop in The Sporting News voting.

[ferro39]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

a big thing was made about his range either before this past season or last--according to those numbers, he was ranked as one of the worst (if not THE worst) SS's in the majors.

any yanks fan can tell you, his first step or two is insanely slow. but like i said, if he actually gets to a ball, he rarely flubs it. that said, would it be better of he got to more balls, but over- or under-threw the 1B and gave up the extra base? i dont have an answer for that.

in this case, i dont think the numbers tell the whole story. he's not the worst fielding SS in the league, but i also dont think he should have sniffed a GG this season

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

5k runner where did you get those stats from, id be interested in looking them up for both leagues. Jeter is good at getting ground balls hit right to him, but the going to his right and throwing isnt his strong point anymore. Saw him try it in the alcs and he just looked old.

[5kRunner]

Re: Derek Jeter wins a gold glove

I would have to disagree. He only commited 6 errors this year, the lowest amount of errors in a season for him in his career. (Not counting 1995 when he only played 15 games.)

And his range factor is 3.62 vs 4.36 league average. That means he got to 120 less balls than the average SS did this year. He can't make errors if he doesn't get to the ball.

And for the record, I like Jeter. But he should not have won the Gold Glove. I agree with the OP, its a joke.