Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

[lakeerie92]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

Felix had one, one shutout. Carlton had eight. That accounted for eight wins alone.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Pitching was way different back then. Look at innings pitched. Felix had only one shutout, but that is indicative of baseball today. Pitchers aren't allowed to go 9 innings most of the time. I don't even think the Braves entire pitching staff had one shutout this year.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

YES!! Exactly!!! King Felix had an era of 2.27 how much did he need!!!! You proved my point. The AL average for runs scored per game is also higher now than in 1972. So did Steve Carlton have magic dust, did his team produce runs for him or did he fall on the right side of luck? What is it you think Felix should have done to help his team produce more runs!?!?!?!?

I don't believe in magic so I look for other reasons. First and foremost the Mariners offense was one of the worst in modern history. Not just this season but going back 70 or 80 years. Carlton was dominate don't get me wrong but he also had games go his way and his team scored RUNS for him. I don't argue Carlton had a great season I argue your comparison proves Felix's worth way more than it detracts from it.

The 72 Phillies scored a total of 503 runs the whole year. No player hit 20 hrs or knocked in over 70 runs. Noone scored 100 runs or batted over .284. That is the definition of inept. Carlton succeeded not by luck or by relying on that offense but with skill. He didn't allow runs. Felix had one, one shutout. Carlton had eight. That accounted for eight wins alone.

[mariner_gamers]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

The guy had a 1.97 ERA how much run support did he need?

YES!! Exactly!!! King Felix had an era of 2.27 how much did he need!!!! You proved my point. The AL average for runs scored per game is also higher now than in 1972. So did Steve Carlton have magic dust, did his team produce runs for him or did he fall on the right side of luck? What is it you think Felix should have done to help his team produce more runs!?!?!?!?

I don't believe in magic so I look for other reasons. First and foremost the Mariners offense was one of the worst in modern history. Not just this season but going back 70 or 80 years. Carlton was dominate don't get me wrong but he also had games go his way and his team scored RUNS for him. I don't argue Carlton had a great season I argue your comparison proves Felix's worth way more than it detracts from it.

[MarinersFan34]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

You could be way off? Dude, you are about as "way off" as someone could ever be, More pressure pitching in Seattle? In front of what, 5000 fans per game? Surely, you're kidding.

Good grief.. I guess I should have worded that differently but this is the GUU we should all be perfect

I did not mean to imply that pitching "IN Seattle" was the pressure point. In fact it doesn't matter how many fans are in the seats in Seattle or ANY city.

I am implying it has to do with run support and pitching "FOR Seattle" this year, the pitchers had little run support. That means the pressure is on to make little or no mistakes as even 1 run would often cost you the game. The Yankees pitchers had excellent run support, averaging 5+ per game. I am NOT implying Sabathia didn't pitch under pressure (the guy plays for the yankees, that's pressure enough) however he had a larger margin for error and could still win. I'd say it also has to do with defense as well, Yankees had a solid team on the field, what did the M's have, not much.

"Sometimes, a pitcher is capable of being the best at his craft and still not earning victories because of the inadequacy that surrounds him." -Jeff Passan

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

Really!? This is your comparison? You know this is one of THEE biggest seasons torn apart by sabermetrics right? Ok I am not going any further except to reiterate what I stated before. There are those who follow RBI's and W/L and those who follow sabermetrics. I am not going to try and explain or give any links cause Bill James and the Googler will give you all you need. Suffice to say Carlton had a great season in 1972 and got ample run support for the era. I say the same for King Felix without the support behind him. The biggest argument against Felix should be that Safeco is his home field not that Steve Carlton won 27 games in 1972.

The guy had a 1.97 ERA how much run support did he need?

[mariner_gamers]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

27 wins, 1.97 ERA, 41 Starts, 30 complete games, 346 innings pitched, 310 strikeouts all league leading stats for a team that won 59 games good for last place by a huge margain and finished 37.5 games out of first place. Steve Carlton 1972 NL CY Young Winner. Negates any argument in favor of devaluing wins and Felix winning the CY Young.

Really!? This is your comparison? You know this is one of THEE biggest seasons torn apart by sabermetrics right? Ok I am not going any further except to reiterate what I stated before. There are those who follow RBI's and W/L and those who follow sabermetrics. I am not going to try and explain or give any links cause Bill James and the Googler will give you all you need. Suffice to say Carlton had a great season in 1972 and got ample run support for the era. I say the same for King Felix without the support behind him. The biggest argument against Felix should be that Safeco is his home field not that Steve Carlton won 27 games in 1972.

[lakeerie92]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

From Jeff Passan's column:
Pitcher A: 2.49 ERA, 7.5 hits per nine, 2.7 walks per nine, 8.2 strikeouts per nine, 7.02 innings per start.

Pitcher B: 2.39 ERA, 7.3 hits per nine, 2.5 walks per nine, 8.5 strikeouts per nine, 7.28 innings per start.

Pitcher A is Felix ’09. Pitcher B is Felix ’10. Felix ’09 went 19-5. Felix ’10 is 11-11. Felix ’09 was tremendous and Felix ’10 is slightly improved in every category. Felix ’10 …

Second comparision:

Pitcher A: 3.14 ERA, 8.1 hits per nine, 2.8 walks per nine, 7.3 strikeouts per nine, 6.97 innings per start.

Pitcher B: 2.16 ERA, 7.7 hits per nine, 2.0 walks per nine, 9.5 strikeouts per nine, 6.95 innings per start.

Pitcher A is Sabathia ’10. Pitcher B is Greinke ’09. In other words, it took a remarkable season to beat Felix ’09 for the Cy Young, and it should take a remarkable season to beat Felix ’10 for it. Greinke ’09 was remarkable. Sabathia ’10 is not.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

27 wins, 1.97 ERA, 41 Starts, 30 complete games, 346 innings pitched, 310 strikeouts all league leading stats for a team that won 59 games good for last place by a huge margain and finished 37.5 games out of first place. Steve Carlton 1972 NL CY Young Winner. Negates any argument in favor of devaluing wins and Felix winning the CY Young.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

I could be way off but I'd think there's more pressure pitching in Seattle since the slightest mistake will cost you the game, oops Felix let in 1 run, you lose cause the offense CAN'T score a single run. Sabathia lets in 1 run, big deal the yanks CAN score 4+ to cover him more often than not.

You could be way off? Dude, you are about as "way off" as someone could ever be, More pressure pitching in Seattle? In front of what, 5000 fans per game? Surely, you're kidding.

[MarinersFan34]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

If you took felix off of the mariners they would still be a last place team. He pitched with no pressure. As much as i hate the yankees CC pitched lights out in a pennant race, while felix was busy sitting out his last start in order to not affect his stats. This is as bad as the writer who gave joe girrardi a vote for manager of the year.

Clearly there is no way to validate in your mind Felix winning the Cy Young, which is fine, we'll agree to disagree.. but at least make sense in knocking him if you must.

It's obvious the M's are a last place team, with or without Felix. Not sure what your point is on that one. You can't win many games scoring 513 runs(30th). I don't care what pitcher is in Seattle, if your team scores that low, nobody is gonna get 20+ wins. On the flip side, the Yankees score 859 runs (1st). So even if you have a bad night, good chance you can still get a Win.

Felix was 2-3 and 4.28 vs. Texas

Sabathia was 1-2 and 3.38 vs. Tampa Bay

Lights out in a pennant race? giving up 7 ER to TB on Sept. 23rd, that was a critical loss considering how close the race was. Granted he faced TB on Sept. 13th and got a no decision after 8 with 0 ER. Also, he gave up 5 ER to Baltimore (a last place team) on Sept. 7th. another critical loss during the race.

Clearly the memo wasn't sent to everyone about Felix wanting to pitch the last game he could. He made it VERY clear he wanted to pitch one more time. He was shut down by the M's brass, not because he wanted to sit on his stats, if anything he wanted to go out and try for another W for his record. As for pressure.. I could be way off but I'd think there's more pressure pitching in Seattle since the slightest mistake will cost you the game, oops Felix let in 1 run, you lose cause the offense CAN'T score a single run. Sabathia lets in 1 run, big deal the yanks CAN score 4+ to cover him more often than not.

Not sure why you dislike Felix or the M's so much but if Sabathia was a Mariner, he would NOT be a 20 game winner. I guess even if Felix had 21 wins, he still shouldn't get it, Sabathia should get it cause he's.. well.. Sabathia??

Anyways, I'm done with this one.. the award is final, no going back now.

Go Mariners!!

[tmpjets]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

King Felix AL Cy Young !!!! Way to go! Down with the Evil Empire. GO MARINERS.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

Also hernandez was 2-3 with a 4.58 era against the top team in his division.

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

If you took felix off of the mariners they would still be a last place team. He pitched with no pressure. As much as i hate the yankees CC pitched lights out in a pennant race, while felix was busy sitting out his last start in order to not affect his stats. This is as bad as the writer who gave joe girrardi a vote for manager of the year.

[lakeerie92]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

cy young would think it was a joke. cy won over 500 games with good teams and bad. he carried his teams on his back winning games along the way. how does a guy that barely has a winning record win the cy young award. oh well thats just my take on it.

Cy Young also had 316 losses. He was a 20 game loser in 3 different years. He did his fair share of losing on bad teams too.Cy Young career .618 winning percentage. Hernandez-.573

[Dewey2007]

Re: Felix Hernandez Won The Cy Young

Felix's record and stats this year completely reminded me of some of Nolan Ryan's seasons when he pitched with some bad teams. I looked at his career stats and although he didn't win the Cy Young award in 1987, Nolan Ryan was 5th in voting that year with an 8-16 record which is amazing. He did lead the league in ERA and K's that year though.