PayPal as a Gift

[commando]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

You are cheating a business out of its fees.

Mark, I agree with everything you said except for this. It sounds like in the past, the "gift" transactions through Paypal were free. But now the person sending the money has to pay the transaction fee, rather than the recipient like in other Paypal transactions... But Paypal does get its money.

So what you have now with a gift transaction is the buyer paying the fees -- and he loses his buyer's protection as a thanks! Not a good deal for the buyer in my opinion.

I don't care how well you know the person selling you an item. What if you buy a $100 item from someone and it simply doesn't arrive in the mail? Even if you are 100% sure the item was really sent, stuff happens. Now, one of you will have to take the loss or split it unless you bought postal insurance.

[BULBUS]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Paypal is a business with expenses. Plus, if you use your credit card, THEY have to pay the credit card fees (they try like heck to get you to use your bank account or Paypal balance to avoid those fees though). So in the end, their profit has to be what, less than 1%, 1/2%??

-Chris

[G1X]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Anthony,

It is my understanding that the sender does not pay the transaction fee on a "Gift" when drawn from a bank account on file or from their Pay Pal balance. For example, I recently sent cash to a friend to help him with some personal expenses. I sent it is a "gift" (which it was) and was not charged a transaction fee by Pay Pal as I drew it off my bank account.

If the the money is drawn from a credit card, I would assume that Pay Pal charges a fee at that point as they have to recover the fees charged by the credit card company for a cash "advance". Chris (BULBUS) hit the nail on the head on that point in his post.

If the transaction was being conducted in the proper manner to begin with ("Purchase of Goods" instead of a "Gift"), the loss of Buyer Protection - the issue that seems to be rubbing some collectors the wrong way as being unfair - would not be an issue.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[commando]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Anthony,

It is my understanding that the sender does not pay the transaction fee on a "Gift" when drawn from a bank account on file or from their Pay Pal balance. For example, I recently sent cash to a friend to help him with some personal expenses. I sent it is a "gift" (which it was) and was not charged a transaction fee by Pay Pal as I drew it off my bank account.

Ahhhh, I see what you're saying. I never have much of a Paypal balance, and have used my credit card on gift transactions so I'd have protection. Thanks for the clarification!

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Ok, so here is a big question I have, since we are worried about ripping off paypal and depriving them of their fees...
It does not take a genius with infinite foresight to see how the "gift" option could be abused, and I am sure the good folks running eBay/Paypal are way smarter than myself, so why would they (and how could they afford to) have a way where folks can send money with no fees at either end? Did they do that out of the goodness of their hearts?
All I'm saying is, they have to know this could be occurring and they still have the option out there. There has to be more to this than we all know.

[G1X]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Personally, I am not near as worried about Pay Pal losing out on fees as I am concerned about the state of the hobby and society in general if it is becoming acceptable and justifiable to be less than forthright in our dealings. If so, heaven help us all.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I just perused the paypal site, has anybody seen any specific rules about when it is ok to send a payment as a gift or not? I'd like to see paypal's official stance on this but could not find anything definitive.

[ferro39]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

I am a bit surprised and personally disappointed by some of the recent posts. Referencing back to my previous post in this thread (post #27), Pay Pal is a business that handles money transactions. It acts much like a credit card company when making sales/purchases, and charges a fee for its services just like a credit card company at a similar rate. It's not a free service - it's a business, just like a credit card company.

As for those of you who continue to justify using the "Gift" option, I will repeat what I said earlier. It is UNETHICAL, DISHONEST, and FRAUDULENT. Maybe some of you do not perceive it in those strong terms, and I am sure that most of you are good folks, but that's exactly what it is. You are cheating a business out of its fees.

I've been in the hobby for over 50 years (37 in the game-used hobby) and one thing that I can attest to is the hobby has always had a somewhat less than favorable reputation in the eyes of the public when it comes to integrity issues. Although some of you may see using the "Gift" option as a very minor transgression or no sin at all, there are many who see it otherwise and another example of folks in the hobby being less than completely forthright in their dealings.

We all need to do the "right thing", regardless of what misdeeds others have done to us or whether we feel that a busines is "ripping us off" with their fees, prices, etc. As said before, if you don't like a particular service, don't use them. (Show them your displeasure with your wallet.) If we don't do the "right thing", then the hobby's reputation and all of us who participate will be viewed in a lesser light.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Fotball League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

there doesnt seem to be any happy medium here

what ive learned in this thread is that if i take payment as a gift, im "unethical" and "fraudulent," and if i charge the buyer the fee, im "greedy" and risk chasing away potential buyers

unless im missing something, basically, im supposed to either bend over and pay for a service that protects the buyer and the buyer only, or simply not use paypal at all and, by default, completely close up shop on ebay to take a moral stand...or i guess take my business over to a site like ioffer where the scamming makes the stuff that goes down on eBay look like kindergarten, and which doesnt get a fraction of the eyes that ebay does

what would you do if you were me? im not asking rhetorically. im genuinely curious

the most responsible solution seems to be to continue to offer paypal as an option, insist that buyers pay the 3.5% if they want the protection, and apparently risk alienating a bunch of people in the process

[34swtns]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Here's an idea: next time you're at your local grocery store tell the cashier that the money you give her for the merchandise is a "gift" to the store and you don't want to pay the sales tax.

See how that works out for ya'.

And don't bother flapping the "but that's different" argument.
It's really not.....at all.

[ferro39]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

flapping? right.

i asked a honest question. no need to be condescending

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

there doesnt seem to be any happy medium here

what ive learned in this thread is that if i take payment as a gift, im "unethical" and "fraudulent," and if i charge the buyer the fee, im "greedy" and risk chasing away potential buyers

unless im missing something, basically, im supposed to either bend over and pay for a service that protects the buyer and the buyer only, or simply not use paypal at all and, by default, completely close up shop on ebay to take a moral stand...or i guess take my business over to a site like ioffer where the scamming makes the stuff that goes down on eBay look like kindergarten, and which doesnt get a fraction of the eyes that ebay does

what would you do if you were me? im not asking rhetorically. im genuinely curious

the most responsible solution seems to be to continue to offer paypal as an option, insist that buyers pay the 3.5% if they want the protection, and apparently risk alienating a bunch of people in the process

What you are missing here is that you pay Paypal to process your sale. You, the seller, are paying for a service. That service helps you recruit buyers to your product. If Paypal was not helpful to you, the seller, then you would not use it would you?
So you seem to want to use their service to help you sell your product but you dont want to pay for it.
And I will never send a "gift" payment unless I use my credit card because I want some protection. So I am stuck paying your fees while you enjoy the service for free.

[ferro39]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

so in that regard, if paypal helps sellers recruit buyers and if buyers are afforded the protection, is it fair to split the fees?

[otismalibu]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

im supposed to either bend over and pay for a service that protects the buyer and the buyer only,

Yes, we're usually expected to pay for goods and services.

Which do you think is a bigger problem in the hobby? Buyer fraud or seller fraud?

[ferro39]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

Yes, we're usually expected to pay for goods and services.

Which do you think is a bigger problem in the hobby? Buyer fraud or seller fraud?

i understand that goods and services need to be paid for.

another member mentioned that that a big reason why paypal is key for buyers (in addition to the protection) is because buyers like to get their items ASAP and paypal speeds up that process.

all of that said, shouldnt the buyer assume some of that responsibility then? it seems like paypal is as much of a service for the buyer as it is for the seller. it also saves them a trip to the bank or the post office

hard for me to say what is the bigger problem, though. i think that buying and selling fraud is equally slimy, but i have no idea which is more prevalent

[34swtns]

Re: PayPal as a Gift

The fact that this discussion has gone this far is ridiculous. No matter how you try to validate your argument the simple fact is there's no justification for stealing. None.

Their service, their rules.
Don't like it, don't use it.