Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

[xpress34]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

Josh Hamillton has stunk once again in the World Series. He needs to get it together!

Camaro -

Ever had a pulled groin muscle? I have. I give Josh credit just for being up walking around, much less running, fielding and swinging the bat...

I'm honestly surprised he's playing, but as the saying goes, sometimes you have to suck it up for the situation at hand.

- Smitty

[camarokids]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

Camaro -

Ever had a pulled groin muscle? I have. I give Josh credit just for being up walking around, much less running, fielding and swinging the bat...

I'm honestly surprised he's playing, but as the saying goes, sometimes you have to suck it up for the situation at hand.

- Smitty

True he is playing hurt. Maybe he should sit and give someone else a chance?

But he stunk in last years WS as well. He went 2 for 20 in 2010 for a .100 batting avg.

He is doing better this WS, he is 2 for 16 with a .125 batting avg.

Don't get me wrong, I like JH. But he needs to do better when it counts on the biggest stage of MLB!

[xpress34]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

David -

On the other hand, my other guy (former Rockie) Matt Holliday is sucking it up too for the Cardinals...

15 AB, 2 H, 3 BB, 0 RBI, .133 BA

Hambone is about equal with Holliday this year:

16 AB, 2 H, 0 BB, 2 RBI, .125 BA

- Smitty

[CollectGU]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

IMO, the Pujols homeruns were not in a clutch situation. His team had the lead when he hit all three HR's.

Look what Dan Johnson did for the Rays in the last game of the regular season. The Rays were down to their last strike and he hits a HR to tie the game and send it to extra innings. The Rays really sucked in the playoff's. Maybe next year?

There are many situations where a player has hit a HR in aclutch situation, w/ the game is on the line.

Pujols hit the HR's with no pressure of the game on the line. Josh Hamillton has stunk once again in the World Series. He needs to get it together!

His team has to win it all for it to compare, plain and simple. It's like the pats going 18-0 and losing in the suoerbowl. You can't compare them to Dolphins of 72

Dave

[Dewey2007]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

I thought this was interesting:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/mvp_cya.shtml

higher then your guys Morgan, Yaz, Rice, Bench, and Winfield.

Top 20 MVP voting?
Being among 20 is not dominant.

Playoffs are not the measure of a great player. You don't think Catfish, Vida, Holtzman, Guidry, Gossage, Fingers had anything to do with Reggie's playoff success? They were the reasons.

Reggie was never as good as Bench, Morgan, Yaz (in his prime), Jim Rice, Schmidt, Winfield-- just to name some of his peers.

This is all opinions & debate of course, which make sports fun.

[AM]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

All well and good - do you honestly think Reggie was a better player than those others mentioned?

Maybe Winfield is debatable, but I think he was the better all around player

Lists and awards are not the say all - if we use that list, Eddie Murray is better than Manny, Piazza, Griffey, Brett, Rice, MOrgan, Vlad -- really?

It also has Reggie ahead of Griffey - not in a million years!!!

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

Reggie Jackton has become one of those players that everyone has heard of because of constant media coverage and praise. Therefore many think he was better than he really was.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

IMO unless the Cards win the homers are merely a footnote in history and you can't compare them to what Reggie and Ruth did. Pujols despite that game has had some very bad moments in this Series as well. Right now Napoli is in my book the player who has been the most impressive in the Series and unless the Cards come back the probable MVP of it.

As for Reggie. The guy had his flaws but he was a great power hitter. Numbers don't tell the whole story because he played in the 60s, 70s and 80s which was a very depressed offensive era. He was in the top ten in his league in homers 13 times with four homer titles and was runner-up twice. He was in the top ten in RBIs 10 times winning one RBI title. He won one regular season MVP, came in second once and won two World Series MVPs, which I don't believe anyone else has ever done. His batting average is low but Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews, Willie McCovey, Harmon Killebrew, Ernie Banks, McGwire, Sosa and Thome all hit 500 homers with an average below .280. The guy struck out more than anyone in history but seven of the top ten guys on the alltime strikeout list had 500 homers or came very close thereto (Stargell and McGriff). The talk of the power hitters of the recent era is also misplaced especially Manny because as we all now know he was using illegal performance enhancers and who knows how long he used such and offensive stats were much higher than when Reggie played overall. Was he a top 50 player all-time? Definitely not but he does belong in the Hall. Look at some of the other guys in there and you can't justify pulling him out.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

IMO unless the Cards win the homers are merely a footnote in history and you can't compare them to what Reggie and Ruth did. Pujols despite that game has had some very bad moments in this

As for Reggie. The guy had his flaws but he was a great power hitter. Numbers don't tell the whole story because he played in the 60s, 70s and 80s which was a very depressed offensive era.

Tell that to McCovey, Aaron, Killebrew, Mays, Mantle, Mays, Robinson, Schmidt, Banks, Murry, Stargell, Musial, Matthews, Windfield, Yaz, Kingman, Dawson, Billy Williams, Darrell Evans, Kaline, etc............

[AM]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

Please don't put Mike Schmidt and Reggie Jackson in the same class - arguably the greatest third baseman ever, and one of the game's all-time great two-way players, vs. a power-hitting strikeout machine who did NOTHING else.

I am not advocating taking Reggie out of the Hall, but there needs to be some sort of re-evaluation of truly great players versus those who are very good over a long time, compilers.

Pitchers are a little different, but they too need to have their standards re-evaluated. IMO, guys like Niekro, Sutton, etc. are not HOF pitchers. I know longevity gets rewarded, but it is overrated.

As an aside, the MLB all-century team from 1999 (I think) was a joke - McGwire? Nolan Ryan? Pete Rose? There are others I can't think of right now. Where was Maddux, Barry Bonds, Jimmie Foxx? Pedro & Randy Johnson were still early in their brilliance so I understand they weren't there. Pete Rose's hits are impressive, but he was not nearly the player Frank Robinson, Bonds, were, etc.

I can go on forever... let's stay on topic... Reggie vs. the world...

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

Tell that to McCovey, Aaron, Killebrew, Mays, Mantle, Mays, Robinson, Schmidt, Banks, Murry, Stargell, Musial, Matthews, Windfield, Yaz, Kingman, Dawson, Billy Williams, Darrell Evans, Kaline, etc............

? Most of those guys you name were at the tail end of their careers or retired when Reggie debuted definitely not in their primes. I.E. Mantle, Mays, Musial, Matthews, Banks, McCovey, Billy Williams and Kaline. So I don't see your point. From 1965 to 1990 only George Foster had 50 homers in a season. Compared to the surrounding eras 1990-2005 and 1950-1965 offensive was definitely down overall during 1965-1990. Check the numbers yourself.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

Please don't put Mike Schmidt and Reggie Jackson in the same class - arguably the greatest third baseman ever, and one of the game's all-time great two-way players, vs. a power-hitting strikeout machine who did NOTHING else.

I am not advocating taking Reggie out of the Hall, but there needs to be some sort of re-evaluation of truly great players versus those who are very good over a long time, compilers.

Pitchers are a little different, but they too need to have their standards re-evaluated. IMO, guys like Niekro, Sutton, etc. are not HOF pitchers. I know longevity gets rewarded, but it is overrated.

As an aside, the MLB all-century team from 1999 (I think) was a joke - McGwire? Nolan Ryan? Pete Rose? There are others I can't think of right now. Where was Maddux, Barry Bonds, Jimmie Foxx? Pedro & Randy Johnson were still early in their brilliance so I understand they weren't there. Pete Rose's hits are impressive, but he was not nearly the player Frank Robinson, Bonds, were, etc.

I can go on forever... let's stay on topic... Reggie vs. the world...

I was comparing them offensively. They were both power hitters who hit for a low batting average and whiffed alot during the same era. If you include defense I agree there is no comparison. I also agree that the Hall lets in too many guys who just have stats. Niekro, Sutton, Bert Blynn (However you spell that) to me are not HOfers by any strech of the imagination. What it comes down to is people like numbers and the inductions are huge revenue for the Hall and the town of Cooperstown particularly the hotels and restaraunts every year from all the tourists they attract so they want to induct someone every year.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

? Most of those guys you name were at the tail end of their careers or retired when Reggie debuted definitely not in their primes. I.E. Mantle, Mays, Musial, Matthews, Banks, McCovey, Billy Williams and Kaline. So I don't see your point. From 1965 to 1990 only George Foster had 50 homers in a season. Compared to the surrounding eras 1990-2005 and 1950-1965 offensive was definitely down overall during 1965-1990. Check the numbers yourself.

You said there wasn't as much offense in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I just listed some of the big homerun hitters. I didn't even mention all the small ball run producers like Rose, Morgan, Brock, etc.........

You can't compare an era of steroid freaks to an era of normal guys. Wonder how many homeruns Mays would have hit on the juice.

I do not recall the steroid era with such affection as you do. I look back at it with disdain.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

You are right about some of them being at the end of their careers though. Not all of them, but some.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Move over Reggie, Albert needs to sit beside of you

You said there wasn't as much offense in the 60's, 70's and 80's. I just listed some of the big homerun hitters. I didn't even mention all the small ball run producers like Rose, Morgan, Brock, etc.........

You can't compare an era of steroid freaks to an era of normal guys. Wonder how many homeruns Mays would have hit on the juice.

I do not recall the steroid era with such affection as you do. I look back at it with disdain.

How many guys who began their career between 1065 and 1985 hit 500 homers? Three. Mike, Reggie and Murray. In contrast eight players whose careers began between 1945 and 1965 hit 500 and nine whose career began between 1985 and today have reached that number. Only one guy hit 50 homers in the 25 years between 65 and 90. There were eight 50 homer seasons between 1945 and 1965 and over 20 since 1990. I am not a fan of the roid era but the reality is the numbers count.