Albert Pujols to the Angels

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

Frustrated by Cards

Los Angeles Dodgers manager Don Mattingly participated in Pujols' charity tournament Saturday. They had become friends over the years and Mattingly sensed something was awry in Pujols' relationship with the Cardinals' front office.
"There was a frustration there," said Mattingly, who grew up a Cardinals' fan in Evansville, Ind. "You could just sense something was wrong. He was getting frustrated by it.
"I hoped he would stay in St. Louis because he's such a legend there. He's like [Derek] Jeter and Cal [Ripken], but I also knew he would go where his heart would take him. People talk about the money, but I knew he would be following his heart."
Pujols' frustration stemmed from two years of not being able to come to an agreement with the Cardinals on a long-term contract extension and sensing the team didn't view him as a priority. He helped the team to the World Series championship this season in the final year of an eight-year, $116 million deal.
They made an offer in February worth about $195 million for nine years. Pujols, who wanted a 10-year deal, declined. They agreed to shut down negotiations until the season ended, but when free agency opened on Oct. 30, the Cardinals took the offer away and supplemented it with much shorter-term deals. Pujols, people said, almost felt as if the team was daring him to leave.


You can read the rest of article here

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/angels/story/2011-12-08/albert-pujols-cj-wilson-sign/51750952/1?loc=interstitialskip

Pujols turned down Marlins $275M, All because he wanted a no-trade clause. Pujols signed for less money to play for Angels. If, Cardinals fans are going to be mad, be mad at the GM & Cardinals front office.

Comes down to one word "Respect" and Pujols felt he didn't get that from the Cardinals front office. They dared him to leave and he did.

[slambam]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

It amazes me how Cardinal fans on TV and the internet are calling him greedy.
He played for half his worth and never complained. The owners enjoyed the best player in baseball for a bargain price.
In a world of players holding teams hostage Pujols was a breath of fresh air. He signed a contract and he honored it.

The fact that he's always said he wanted to stay in St Louis is what gets to the Cardinal fans. I've heard multiple places that the Cards last offer was 9 yr/$210 mil + a performance based option for a 10th yr and Mo even said that this may not have even been there strongest offer, but Albert and his agent didn't go back to the Cards after they got the Angles offer - they just took it and ran. Plus, throw in the higher tax rate and cost of living in LA, and Albert really isn't making that much more than he would have had in St Louis. THAT is more of a reason why Cardinals fans are pissed. It's nothing less than a kick in the junk and spit in the face to the franchise and the fans.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

Are the Cards' owners rich? Absolutely. Did they make a great purchase, flip properties and get an even better deal? Oh, yeah. Are they stingy? That's debatable. Are they crying poor? Absolutely not.

I think the ownership would have happily made Pujols the highest paid player in baseball (AAV) if he'd accepted a 5-6 year contract (at maybe $28-30M/yr). But, when Albert's agent demanded 10 years, the team seems to have decided (wisely, in my opinion) that was a poor investment, long term. I think that was a solid business decision and a smart baseball decision -- regardless of how much money the team's owners have on paper.

Jeff, you and I shared some good times in St. Louis and I known your passion for the team and it is good to hear your opinion.

The crying poor comment was how they portrayed their team and city as a smaller market and their constraints on spending. I dont buy it. The market is what you create. ST Louis attendance is robust, advertising is evident, TV rights are owned by the team.

Their basis in the team vs it's market value makes their ownership a tremendous net value in the $100's of millions! It's like buying a home that you knew the land could be subdivided and even though you paid $1.5 million you sold the adjoining lot for $1 million so you have $500,000 investment into it. Ten years later you tear the home down and rebuild it. The market values have skyrocketed and now it is worth $7 million against a total investment of $4. You rent the home out now and on top of the positive cash flow the mortgage and all debt will be paid off in 7 years.

[freddiefreeman5]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

It amazes me how Cardinal fans on TV and the internet are calling him greedy.
He played for half his worth and never complained. The owners enjoyed the best player in baseball for a bargain price.
In a world of players holding teams hostage Pujols was a breath of fresh air. He signed a contract and he honored it.

[Birdbats]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

It's funny how people can look at the same numbers and come up with different interpretations. For example, while the Cardinals ownership group might be worth $5 billion, you need to know there are many members of that ownership group (maybe 15?). Some of those members have massive assets, but only a small slice of the team. So, for example, if someone has $500M in assets but owns 2% of the team, that person's assets are pretty much irrelevant to the question of what the team can afford.

Also, the owners anted up a much larger percentage of the stadium cost than is typical for most team owners. I believe something like $45 million came from the public and the other $320 came from the team and bonds to be paid by the team over a couple decades. Only the SF Giants' stadium had a larger percentage of private financing than Busch.

Are the Cards' owners rich? Absolutely. Did they make a great purchase, flip properties and get an even better deal? Oh, yeah. Are they stingy? That's debatable. Are they crying poor? Absolutely not.

I think the ownership would have happily made Pujols the highest paid player in baseball (AAV) if he'd accepted a 5-6 year contract (at maybe $28-30M/yr). But, when Albert's agent demanded 10 years, the team seems to have decided (wisely, in my opinion) that was a poor investment, long term. I think that was a solid business decision and a smart baseball decision -- regardless of how much money the team's owners have on paper.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

Thank you for all this information. I don't have that much background on the Cardinals owners, but it is definitely food for thought. I appreciate your posting it, because it gives me another perspective.

-Frik

You are welcome. I am usually one that will side with ownership and bash the player for being greedy. I just think there is way more behind the scenes in this case. Some have said it is like LeBron and I really don't think it is the same. We will probably never know the real truth as this will take some time to see what leaks out.

I commend Albert for signing a contract years ago with the Cardinals and playing out the terms of the contract. He never publicly threatened or said he would hold out on his 8 year deal that paid him $111 mill. In his case, he far exceeded in relative value what he was being paid (approx $13.8 million per season).

I watched on ESPN a woman burning her Pujols jersey----there is a lot of anger. Yes, Albert left and could have stayed for less money and it is so much money that he couldn't spend it all in his lifetime which is why I don't think it is all about the money.

[frikativ54]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

The Cardinals seem to be crying poor and the anger is pointed towards Pujols. Its just good to know a little bit of the other side of the story about Dewitt and partners.

Thank you for all this information. I don't have that much background on the Cardinals owners, but it is definitely food for thought. I appreciate your posting it, because it gives me another perspective.

-Frik

[allstarsplus]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

This is a conglomeration of info I dug up on the Cardinals owners. Combined ownership group is worth reportedly over $5 billion and that could be low.

The Dewitt's are shrewd 'businesspeople'. When their group bought the Cardinals one of the aspects they liked in the deal was all the real estate holdings that came along with the team purchase and the first order of business would be a real estate 'flip' that would almost give them the franchise + the stadium for FREE. The owners bought the team in 1995 for $150 million. The purchase price included the stadium (Old Busch), adjacent parking garages and various parcels of downtown land. The parking garages and some of the land were sold for $101 million, giving them a baseball team at a net cost of $49 million. They have since built the new stadium for approximately $350 million of which they received millions in tax incentive and millions in publicly funded infrastructure cost. The true price of what the Cardinals owners put into the new stadium is unknown and after the 2013 season it appears they have clear ownership of the stadium with only privately held obligations.

The Dewitt's and partners accumulated much of their wealth in a bank flip. In a Sept. 3, 2004 St. Louis Post-Dispatch interview with Andrew Baur, it was said that Baur and Dewitt's family and other team owners were stockholders in Mississippi Valley Bancshares, which owned Southwest Bank in St. Louis. The bank was bought for $9.4 million in 1984 and was sold a few years ago for $502 million. In addition to Baur, Cardinal owners Fred Hanser and Donna DeWitt Lambert (sister of William DeWitt) were large stockholders in the company.

Despite their wealth, the Cardinals' owners are not known for being generous. In 1997, the Cardinals fired the stadium's janitorial team after they refused to accept a wage cut. The Cardinals' management wanted to cut their pay from $9.70 an hour to $6.90 an hour. Some of the janitors worked for the Cardinals for more than 20 years. Eventually, an agreement was reached with the workers' union. This is how the agreement was reported in the April 20, 1997 edition of the Post:

"The new agreement means the workers with the most seniority will take a pay cut of 50 cents an hour while all union members will lose health benefits they had under the previous contract."

The Cardinals seem to be crying poor and the anger is pointed towards Pujols. Its just good to know a little bit of the other side of the story about Dewitt and partners.

[xpress34]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

We get entertainment.

Same thing we get from watching a movie starring people who are paid millions of dollars to pretend they're somebody else for two hours. It isn't fair in terms of salaries, but that is one of the top things people spend money on, so their income reflects that.

e -

I've heard that argument before. My only issue with it - my tax dollars aren't paying for the movie theater where I go to watch the movies while the movie theater keeps all the profits.

If the people in a city pay higher taxes to build a stadium for a team, I feel the city and it's people should benefit more than just the tax revenue from ticket/food/concessions sales. Just my .02.

[emann]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

As fans, do we really get anything back from our investment in the game?

We get entertainment.

Same thing we get from watching a movie starring people who are paid millions of dollars to pretend they're somebody else for two hours. It isn't fair in terms of salaries, but that is one of the top things people spend money on, so their income reflects that.

Sports has the added element of competition for fans of a certain area and emotional history attached to it for most. So, it becomes more than entertainment...

I was a lifelong baseball fan, but in 1994, I was appalled by the strike killing the World Series. I felt the players were beyond greedy, the owners were corrupt and the game was ruined. I didn't watch baseball AT ALL again until about 2003 (and didn't set foot in a park again until 2009). For that entire time, they lost my yearly expense of a few hundred dollars in tickets, merch sales, food sales, etc. It didn't kill the game, but I didn't feel I wanted to support this system anymore. I was getting nothing in return except anger and frustration.

What happened though was after that I came back to baseball, I enjoy for what it's worth as entertainment and am a bigger fan than I was before. It's a great way to escape the politics and issues of "normal" life. I look at things like the Pujols contract and laugh at how out of touch and absurd this stuff is... I'm surprised more things like this don't show up:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/974034-james-loney-dodgers-star-crashes-maserati-and-goes-completely-crazy

Not to sound too preachy, but I highly recommend taking time away from sports if the enjoyment factor gets lost. It's not supposed to be work for fans, it's supposed to be an escape from the grind. That's why they pay the guy who hits the little ball with a stick the big dollars, it's HIS problem if he misses it, not mine (I just get to boo him).

[vonbrandingo]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

Welcome to California, Albert! I think you'll enjoy the weather compared to MO. Bring your winter coat though, you'll need it batting in your new lineup.

[geoff]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

I was shocked and when I thought about it I think its a good move so he can get that full no trade clause and DH sometimes and 5 or 6 years from now be a DH mostly.

[gameused]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

Great signing for the Angels. I had a feeling that when Tony Larussa retired Pujols would sign elsewhere and with an American league team, he can stiil play first base and DH or just DH, which in the long run will prolong his career.

Can't wait to see him play in person on the West coast.

Thanks,
Bobby

[gnishiyama]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

Xpress
You may have misinterpreted when I said

Fans always act like these players should play for less than their value because
they make millions and if it weren't for the fans..blah blah blah

that I don't realize we pay the players' salaries. Of course I do. The thing is
I don't care. When prices go up, I spend less or go to less games. I make
adjustments in my life rather than complaining. (not saying you are)
Was I particularly happy that a small portion of my tax dollars went towards
the new Yankee Stadium? Of course not. However all was forgotten when
I first visited the new stadium and saw how great it was! I can give
you a million other things I hate seeing my hard earned tax money
being spent on than to building a new stadium. Corruption, War...

Bottom line is sports brings to my life a lot of enjoyment and I don't focus
on things that I can't control like prices and player salaries. If you want to
go and make a stand against the owners go ahead, it's not for me.

Back to Pujols; good for him that he ultimately did what he thought was
best for him no matter the reason. This is a business and it was his decision
to make. He doesn't owe anything except thanking the Cards fan for their
support through the years, which I expect him to do, just as Cards fan
should be thankful they got to witness 11 (prime) years of arguably the
best hitter in history.

As Jeff said the Cardinals will be just fine without him. Even as a Yankees
fan I see that team has something special and they have passionate fans
to go along with it.

I hope Pujols gets what he deserves for his act in St. Louis at the WS parade.

Frikativ: Why do you always sound so bitter in your posts? What exactly
does Pujols deserve for helping his team win another WS title?

Anyway happy holidays guys. Can't wait for baseball to start!

[worldchamps]

Re: Albert Pujols to the Angels

In 2011
Rangers were 40-17 vs AL West

56-49 vs everyone else

2013 we add the Astros to the division, so even more wins but so do the angels, oh well. Just hoping this means more chances of getting Pujols autographs.