Montero Traded from Yankees

[kesseldawg]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

His game used value has just gone down, as the Yankee mystique adds a TON. So if you just bought his Yankee game used road jersey for 2K (Steiner offered it to me for that), you just saw the value fall. Look at the hit Pujols Cardinals stuff is taking right now. People want what is current. Granted, a Yankees Montero jersey is nice, but if he wins ROY or becomes a big star, it is the pieces from the team he becomes that star with that will be most sought after.

[yanks12025]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Also how do we know that Pinada won't become one of those aces. Say he becomes the next Verlander, Timmy or Doc. That would do more good for the team in the long run, then having a power hitting DH.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Montero alot and would have loved to see him play longer for us. But when we need pitching more than a full-time DH right now. So I think it's a good move.

[gorilla777]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

No, he's right, pitching means nothing. It is truly overvalued and I now see the light. And this pitching crap was not requested!

[yanks12025]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Yup you guys are right. Montero is a bum and the Yanks did the right thing by moving him for a pitcher who had a few good weeks. Every FA year the TOP HITTER gets the 180 million contract (Tex) 250 Pujols, 214 Fielder, Werth, Crawford and so on!! I only see LEGIT aces get the big money. CC, Lee, Doc. Very good to good get AJ type money. So this pitching crap doesn't hold water with me. Cardinals had rock solid pitching? Come on man. IMO it was a bad trade. I follow the Yanks and every single move they make. I just don't collect G/U stuff and read about stuff here and there so I do know what i'm talking about. Montero was the best hitting prospect since Jeter and most NY fans are tired of the same old broke down players not getting it done. It was time for a change. And Pineda was not the answer we were looking for.

And b4 you write a long post telling me about greating pitch, look up Cashmans interview about this being the hardest trade he's ever had to do. Middle of the order monsters don't grow on trees or come cheap in trades.

Montero only had acouple good weeks also, don't see how it's different then what Pinada did. What if next year Montero hits .200 with 2 home-runs and sent back down. While Pinada wins more that 12 games. I'm guessing you haven't seen that Pinada had the second highest K's per 9 innings this year, he was in front of Verlander.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Yup you guys are right. Montero is a bum and the Yanks did the right thing by moving him for a pitcher who had a few good weeks. Every FA year the TOP HITTER gets the 180 million contract (Tex) 250 Pujols, 214 Fielder, Werth, Crawford and so on!! I only see LEGIT aces get the big money. CC, Lee, Doc. Very good to good get AJ type money. So this pitching crap doesn't hold water with me. Cardinals had rock solid pitching? Come on man. IMO it was a bad trade. I follow the Yanks and every single move they make. I just don't collect G/U stuff and read about stuff here and there so I do know what i'm talking about. Montero was the best hitting prospect since Jeter and most NY fans are tired of the same old broke down players not getting it done. It was time for a change. And Pineda was not the answer we were looking for.

And b4 you write a long post telling me about greating pitch, look up Cashmans interview about this being the hardest trade he's ever had to do. Middle of the order monsters don't grow on trees or come cheap in trades.

The value of a contract does not determine if something is a good trade or not. Pitchers get less because 1. They only pitch every five days while hitters play every game and 2. They are riskier investments because they tend to get more serious, long lasting injuries as a group than hitters do and 3. Pitchers are less consistent and their performances often vary wildly from year to year. However, pitching does win titles. Look at the last few World Series winners all had at least one ace type pitcher who came up big in the postseason:

2011: Cards: Carpenter
2010: Giants: Timmy L., Cain
2009: Yankees: CC
2008: Phils: Hamels
2007: Red Sox: Beckett, Schilling

Without the pitchers listed above, it is likely that most of those teams would not have won. Will Montero come back to bite them? Who knows but in the past the Yankees have come out on top when trading position guys pretty much everytime: Some killed the Jackson for Granderson trade at the time and for a year after but today how does that look? Granderson is a star and Jackson is a singles hitter.

[5toolplayer]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Yup you guys are right. Montero is a bum and the Yanks did the right thing by moving him for a pitcher who had a few good weeks. Every FA year the TOP HITTER gets the 180 million contract (Tex) 250 Pujols, 214 Fielder, Werth, Crawford and so on!! I only see LEGIT aces get the big money. CC, Lee, Doc. Very good to good get AJ type money. So this pitching crap doesn't hold water with me. Cardinals had rock solid pitching? Come on man. IMO it was a bad trade. I follow the Yanks and every single move they make. I just don't collect G/U stuff and read about stuff here and there so I do know what i'm talking about. Montero was the best hitting prospect since Jeter and most NY fans are tired of the same old broke down players not getting it done. It was time for a change. And Pineda was not the answer we were looking for.

And b4 you write a long post telling me about greating pitch, look up Cashmans interview about this being the hardest trade he's ever had to do. Middle of the order monsters don't grow on trees or come cheap in trades.

[yanks12025]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

What makes you say montero will be this elite 30+ home run player. I'd rather take the chance on a pitcher then a DH that can be replaced easily. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to keep montero. But I can see this as a huge move.

[Masimen]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Regardless of whether or not you like the move, which I believe was smart move by the Yankees and it seems those sentiments are shared by most of the so called experts, I have always been a believer that hitching your collecting wagon to a prospect is an extremely risky move from an investment standpoint. Especially if said prospect is a Yankee prospect. You will almost always come out in the negative if you decide to liquidate down the road. Now if that isn't a concern and you are just collecting to collect then no harm I suppose. I still remember what Drew Hensen bats were selling for in 99.

[gorilla777]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Pitching is harder to develop and acquire than hitting. And when signing pitchers vs. hitters on the open market, the contract is much more likely to look bad once completed. And I doubt the Yankees trade Betances or any of their other young pitching, but who knows. You cannot have enough good young pitching and that is a great foundation going forward.
You say pitching doesn't equal championships? Please, very few teams bash their way to a title. And those teams that do, probably have good pitching as well, either starting or relieving in the playoffs. A team does not even get to the playoffs without pitching anyway. The Phillies were defeated mostly by the Cardinals pitching, with the clincher being a 1-0 loss to the dominant Carpenter. The late 90s Yankee teams won consistently on rock solid pitching. How did the '88 Dodgers beat superior Mets and A's teams, but thru pitching. Look back over time and good pitching always gives you a better chance to win than good hitting. Why didn't the late 80s Oakland team of hammers win more? Or the Rangers of the last couple years?
You are also assuming Montero is a catcher. Most experts disagree with that being likely over his career. And he is not a very good one right now. So he will likely be more of a DH thru his career. He had 60 at bats layed out with the best chance of him succeeding. Also done in a lineup that scored a ton of runs, with protection. He will get none of that with Seattle. That is not enough at bats to project a career, just like the number of starts for Pineda are not enough to criticize. And the other player from Seattle in the deal, Jose Campos, is a high ceiling pitcher as well.
Since you collect his stuff, you should be upset. I would be too and it has to color your view of the trade. The reaction of rival GMs is likely a better barometer.

[5toolplayer]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

New York has two top notch catchers on the way, superior by a large margin defensively. Montero, by all reports, did not show the work ethic to become a better catcher.


Wow really? Sanchez is a KID who had a awful 2011 in A ball plus a attitude problem at the end of the season. Romine is all glove who never even hit in AA. I'll take spotty D at the MLB level if that means .300, 30+ Hrs, 100+ RBIs every year. Hey wait.....isn't that what Jorge provided NY for YEARS?


And please post the facts about Montero not working hard to become a better catcher. He worked his ass off from the minute he reported to Scranton in 2011 and didn't stop working until the yankees were beaten by the Tigers.

[5toolplayer]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

What makes you say Pineda is going to be an awesome pitcher? Am I missing something here? Are we talking about the same pitcher who was 9-10 and had a 2nd half ERA of 5.12? Please explain to me the difference of him "probably" being a good pitcher and Montero "probably" being a ELITE hitter. I guess you didn't watch the playoffs last year when the Yankees offense looked like a bunch of old men who were late on everything. This trade still makes me sick and it has nothing to do with Jesus's G/U items because I'm still collecting his stuff even if he ends up playing for the Altoona Curve.

[gorilla777]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

I would be upset if I owned a ton of his stuff too, though that has zero impact on it being a smart trade for NY.

[yanks12025]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

Scott,

Montero isn't a sure thing either. Right now we need pitching and getting a young star for someone with 60 MLB at-bats is good. You bring up saying the league figured him out, it was his rookie year. You think all pitchers in their first year were all-stars right away. Good chance he'll be an awesome pitcher for many years to come.

[5toolplayer]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

I disagree not only because I am probably the biggest Montero supporter but because of the fact that Pineda has had a few good starts and nothing more. Seems like the AL figured him out in the 2nd half and he got rocked. 5.12 ERA the 2nd half?? Come on, is that really a sure thing? Isn't that what Cashman said? He would only trade Jesus for a Cliff Lee type monster? I had plans on going to ST again this year for a week and I already cancelled the trip. Not that the Yankees will miss a beat but I just am sick of the trading away of the young talent. They gave up on Ian, Clippard, Jackson ( I know Grandy) way too fast and hold on to guys like Joba? I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Banuelos and Betances later in the year for an aging DH/OF. Did the Cardinals have "lights out" pitching in the playoffs this year or did the HIT their way to the title? Good pitching wins every time??? How did that work out for the phillies the past 3 years? You NEED offense and Jeter, Arod, Martin, Swisher, Tex have not showed up when it counts the last few years and it has nothing to do with the rotation.

PS: Sanchez is YEARS away and Romine is a backup, no more, no less. Martin is a good D catcher but minus his April fast start, he was terrible with the stick.

Great, great trade by the Yankees and Cashman. It was a gutsy trade by both teams, giving up quality to get quality, which I like. New York has two top notch catchers on the way, superior by a large margin defensively. Montero, by all reports, did not show the work ethic to become a better catcher, had slow feet and that will not get better over time given the toll catching takes on most guys. Yes, his bat is strong but they did give him 60 plus comfortable, high margin of safety at bats. Safeco is one of the worst, if not the worst, fields for hitters, so his power numbers will drop. It is a park for pitching and defense. His GU stuff is going to drop significantly if you are looking at it as an investment piece too. Seattle got a great hitter that they desperately need, but NY got two hard throwing,(high K to BB ratio) high strike throwing, young pitchers under team control for 5 years, I believe. Good, young pitching is hard to develop and hard to get. The reaction of other AL executives definitely sided with the Yankees on this one and is usually a good barometer.
It is on the surface a good trade for both, to a degree, but it is a huge coup for the Yankees, especially in terms of need.

Ben

[joelsabi]

Re: Montero Traded from Yankees

How does this affect Pineda's GU items. He has a full exclusive contract with Onyx. Are they going to be the ones who get his GU items or will Steiner because of their contract with the Yankees?? I'm confused how that works.

more than likely, jerseys from steiner and individual player paid items like cleats, bats, and batting gloves will be marketed with Onyx. Pineda could ask for some jerseys for his own use but a set quota of jerseys are promised to Steiner.