Clemens Signs with yankees

[staindsox]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

And yes I know the Twins are owned by a billionaire, but nobody spends $100 to generate $50 in sales. If he spent Yankee money on the Twins, there is no doubt he would lose money. Minnesota can't generate the kind of income NY does...there simply aren't enough people here to do it.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Nobody would ever argue that the Yankees and several other large market teams like the Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Mets are infinitely in a better position just because of their market share. However there is market share and then their is just good business practices and many teams don't use the resources available to them like the Twins and the A's have done to compete. A team like the Kansas City Royals for instance obviously does not have the same resources as do the larger market teams. However, the Glass family that owns the team is comparable to Peter Angelos the Orioles owner in that they are cheap and seem to have no idea from a baseball perspective in terms of what they are doing. Look how many home grown prospects the Royals have allowed to escape over the last eight to ten years and then they attempt to tell fans that they are trying to win??? Sorry, not buying that argument. They might now have had the financial resources to sign them all, but they sure could have signed some of them or at least made an effort. Same thing in Pittsburgh where the Pirates have arguably the best or at least one of the top three ballparks in baseball. Same level of incompetance in management here year after year letting top prospects and free agents skip town.

Nobody is disputing that teams like the Orioles, Royals, Devil Rays, and a number of other markets cannot compete in the salary range with the Yankees. You can however outsmart them by making sound business decisions like Billy Beane has done in Oakland and what the Twins have done in Minnesota that will at least allow you to be competitive on a yearly basis. The problem is, ownership in many of these small market cities meddles in the team affairs and does not let the GM do the job the right way in an attempt to win games.

The bottom line in any city is that wins equal fans in the stands. If the team does not win or worse appears that it is not even making an effort to be competitive, the fans will grow disinterested and stop showing up. Who can blame them with the prices today to go to the ballpark it is an embarrassment what some of these teams are doing or I should say not doing.

In the case of the Orioles, they were avaraging attendance of 3.5-3.7 million per year 5-8 years ago. At an average of say $20.00 per ticket which is low today they would have grossed over $70 million in ticket sales alone. Today they have fallen to around 1.8 million and dropping in annual ticket sales. That results in less than $40 million in revenue. If this team put a winning team on the field or attempted to do so, based on the ticket revenue and the sweet deal Angelos managed to negotiate for himself with the Nationals coming in to DC for TV rights, this team should be able to afford $110-$120 million per year in payroll which would put them into competition with everyone short of the Yankees. Instead, Angelose puts the money in his pocket or in his bank account and then complains about all the fans who don't show up. Put a winning product on the field and maybe they will because the fans sure don't exist to make the owner rich which sadly, too many owners today think is the reason for them to own a sports franchise.

I agree with Andrew, even if the Yankees had three or four healthy productive starters right now, they would still have made every effort to sign Roger Clemens to accomplish one thing and that is to keep him away from the Boston Red Sox. That is the big difference between ownership here and elsewhere. You might not always like the Yankees but Steinbrenner will do whatever it takes to win and that is the bottom line that all teams should try to achieve.

[gameused]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

David Wells says Clemens disrespects the team and teammates by not traveling, Greg Maddux agrees with Wells!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2863411

[bigtime59]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Peter Angelos' unquestioned ineptitude aside, there is absolutely no way the Orioles can compete with the Yankee$ if you are talking about spending power. The Yankee$ just bumped their payroll back over $200MM--again--without even having tho think hard about it. All lies they tell about losing money to the contrary, they continue to drink from the endle$$ river of ca$h that runs through the Bronx, and to buy the AL East title every year.
Until MLB evens out the revenue situation, we're going to have to deal with this problem every year. (And yes, I do understand that things are not as bad, revenue-wise, as they were two CBAs ago, but they're still bad.)
All those who feel that the Yankee$ 26 WS titles were not purchased...well there's not much I can do for you. The income disparity between the Yankee$ and the rest of baseball dates back to the 1920s, at the latest.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Peter Angelos' unquestioned ineptitude aside, there is absolutely no way the Orioles can compete with the Yankee$ if you are talking about spending power. The Yankee$ just bumped their payroll back over $200MM--again--without even having tho think hard about it. All lies they tell about losing money to the contrary, they continue to drink from the endle$$ river of ca$h that runs through the Bronx, and to buy the AL East title every year.
Until MLB evens out the revenue situation, we're going to have to deal with this problem every year. (And yes, I do understand that things are not as bad, revenue-wise, as they were two CBAs ago, but they're still bad.)
All those who feel that the Yankee$ 26 WS titles were not purchased...well there's not much I can do for you. The income disparity between the Yankee$ and the rest of baseball dates back to the 1920s, at the latest.

Bigtime, I am not suggesting that the Orioles can come anywhere close to what the Yankees spend dollar wise but they certainly can do better than what they are currently doing and have been doing for the past 15 plus years of the Angelos regime. The Yankees might have "bought" some titles in the past but they sure did not look so high and mighty during the 80's when they were at times the laughingstock of baseball and the stadium was 3/4th empty on a nightly basis.

If teams like the Atlanta Braves, Minnesota Twins, Oakland A's can regularly compete for the title with their revenue sources then there is no excuse why Baltimore cannot at least make a run for the wildcard. They almost cannot avoid the AL East basement and regularly compete with the Devil Rays to avoid that level of embarrassment.

Peter Angelos has refused ever since he bought the Orioles to consider a front line starting pitcher always making the comment that they cost to much and he is unwilling to pay someone to perform every fifth day. Well guess what, pitching wins championships and you need to look no further than that gapping hole to understand why Baltimore never ever is even competitive. It's great that the Orioles spent 49 million on relief pitchers during the offseason. Too bad the starters cannot even regularly get them into the 5th inning to utilize their skills.

It is an embarrassment when teams like the Kansas City Royals don't even spend the money they receive from the revenue sharing agreement to attract free agents and simply stick it in their back pocket. The Glass family is notorious for doing this.

Baseball does have issues to work out but their is no excuse for not trying to win and from where I stand a number of teams fit into that category. Who is ultimately hurt are the loyal fans that support that team year in and year out and spend their hard earned dollars so the owners can buy a new multi-million dollar home in the Hamptons.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

The Yankees have been building a fan base and putting a quality product on the field since the 1920's. The reaps of today is the result of that practice. It's like any buisness, the more you put into it, the more you get out. All teams have had and have the option now to do so. It's working for the Redsox !!As for caps, limits, sharing, is it fair to say that because Coke or Pepsi spends a gazillion dollars on promoting their product, and building a fan base, they should have to share it with Yoo-Hoo!!

[staindsox]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

That's an oversimplied statement. It's easier to sell the Yankees to a potential base of 10 million vs. a potential fan base of a million in Minnesota. You have 10 times as many people to throw your product at. If you don't have the capital to begin with and 1/10 the potential market, you could never afford to sink the same kind of money into it. That would be bad business. A city like LA has no excuse, but teams like Milwaukee, Minnesota, Kansas City, etc would never, ever have the money to build a dynasty. Yes, they may win one year, but never a dynasty. Only New York and a few cities similar in size have the people to make a dynasty possible.

Chris

[suave1477]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Jete I agree with that also.


Someone mentioned here that because of the size of the cities population that they could nevre generate the money the Yankees do and for Geography purposes I agree.

But you don't even generate the money that your own team commands.

The A'S are one of the only teams I actually see sincerely working hard to keep a good team gpoing.
I even noticed last year that the owner had the top levels covered with a tarp to make it look nice and give the affect that more seats are sold. That was genius!!! it makes it look more instereting to the fans to go to the game seeing that the seats are being filled or at least appearing that way.
The A'S also build up some good players and make trades for better ones or get more money in the deal for the trades.
I am not an A's fan so forgive me if I can't name more or better players, But look at the players the A'S have had.

Sal Bando
Joe Rudi
Reggie Jacskon
Mark McGwire
Jose Canseco
Jason Giambi
Scott brosius
CatFish Hunter
Rollie Fingers
Frank Thomas
Mike Piazza
Goose Gossage
Dennis Eckersly
Vida Blue
Rickey Henderson
Tony Armas

My point to this is over time the A's have attracted some pretty big names whether through the farm system or trades and they are no where near the financial range of the Yankees.

As someone else here said its about having good business sense.

[staindsox]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Funny, I guess the A's have done this forever. Connie Mack was a genius at this. He dumped Lefty Grove and Jimmie Foxx at their peak, but would pick up re-treads that everyone else thought was washed up. There are only a few teams that can afford to pay Yankee money, top dollar at a players peak, but there certainly ways around this and the A's prove it.

My specific thought is that even the A's could never have a dynasty. They may win one or two years, but when they can't pay the big $ when their players reach the peak earning years, they rebuild...they may win it a few years later, but continuous series contender every year is pretty tough.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Yankees sell more product outside of New York than they could ever sell in their home town. If we poll Yankkees collectors on this forum that purchase Yankees items, collectibles, hats, jerseys etc., most of us do not live in New York. Yankees products are a large part of their income! Those of us who are yankees fans, at least in my case,are fans because of tradition to win and put the best product on the field. I put money in the Yankees pocket from Steiner, Yankees products, watching the YES network etc. not by going to the games! Any team can do it, earn your fans by giving them something they want to see. They will pay to go, watch on TV, and by your colors!

[staindsox]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

You cheer for the Yankees because they win, but...

1) That winning tradition started when all Yankee fans lived in New York. After all, there wasn't much in the way of mass communication in 1920 like today. There was no internet, YES network, or premium cable packages...radio didn't even mean anything for another 10 years. People were far more loyal to their local teams. People cheered the team that represented their location, not their winning tradition.

2) Had the Brooklyn Dodgers been that team in 1920, everyone would be wearing Dodger hats today. I think if the St. Louis Browns had won 20+ rings, they would still exist and a quarter of this forum would be wearing those ugly ass brown hats, but they never had the money to win in the first place.

[suave1477]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees

Yeah even the Red Sox had money, but Harry Frazee felt a Broadway Show was more important then baseball so they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees to Pay for a Show (WHAT A QUINKY DINK, A SHOW IN NEW YORK).


Sorry I had to rub that in lol lol

[staindsox]

Re: Clemens Signs with yankees



Yeah, I agree with the irony...for No No Nanette, but Sox fans are in big denial over that one too. The show actually did very well for Frazee, contrary to how it is remembered.