ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

[suave1477]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

TO 3AROD AND NATHAN

I find your point of views of AROD very interesting
3AROD TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS HE PUTS UP
NATHAN TALKING ABOUT POWER THAT HE HAS AND HOW PEOPLE WOULD TREAT JETER IF HE DID THE SAME THING AS AROD.

HERE IS MY REBUTTLE TO BOTH OF YOU
3AROD - NUMBERS??????? AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WHAT NUMBERS????
1) HERES A NUMBER FOR YOU: IN 2006 SEASON AROD WAS #6 IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE (THE WHOLE LEAGUE) IN HITTING BALLS INTO DOUBLE PLAYS - WHICH MEANS NOT ONLY DID HE CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE OUT HE ALSO HURT HIS TEAMATES CHANCES.
2) HERES ANOTHER NUMBER TO LOOK FOR IN ALL HIS SEASONS WITH THE YANKEES IN CLUTCH SITUATIONS WHEN HE WAS NEEDED MOST WHEN IT WAS 2 OUTS AND HES UP TO BAT (KISS IT A GOOD NIGHT - GAMES OVER BECAUSE AROD IS A GAURANTEED CHOKE)
3) LETS TALK ABOUT WHEN THE PLAYOFFS ARE HERE (YELL AROD) - ECHO ECHO ECHO ANYONE SEEN AROD
4) LETS TALK ABOUT ALL THE HOME RUNS HE HIT IN 2006 35 OR HOW ABOUT 2005 48 WOW HE HIT THAT MANY HOME RUNS TOO BAD NONE OF THEM WERE WHEN WE NEEDED THEM WHEN WE WERE DOWN BY A RUN OR 2
NO HE HITS HOME RUNS WHEN WERE BLOWING OUT THE OTHER TEAM ALREADY BY 10 RUNS "GEE THANKS AROD FOR TACKING ON ANOTHER RUN"

NATHAN - POWER??? YEAH THATS WONDERFUL CAN YOU ASK AROD TO USE HIS POWER WHEN WE NEED IT
JETER WOULDNT GET THE SAME TREATMENT IF HE DID WHAT AROD DOES - I THINK THATS THE SELF EXPLANATORY - BECAUSE IT'S WHAT AROD DOES NOT JETER

LETS ASK THE GENERAL QUESTION WHY IS AROD SO HATED???

ITS PRETTY SIMPLE HERE IS A GUY WHO DEMANDS THE HIGHEST SALARY TO PLAY ON A TEAM AND PRODUCES ONLY FOR HIMSELF - NOW YOU CAN ARGUE WELL THE YANKEES ARE ONLY PAYING HALF HIS SALARY THERE NOT REALLY PAYING HIM THAT MUCH BUT GUESS WHAT YOU WANTED TO COME TO THE YANKESS YOU ALREADY KNEW THEY ARE A HIGH PRESSURE TEAM FROM THE FANS AND MANAGEMENT - IT WASNT A SECRET HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS GETTING IN TOO. HE SHOULD HAVE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IF HE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE PRESSURES OF BEING EXPECTED A LOT FROM. NO HERES WHAT HE THOUGHT WHAT OTHER TEAM CAN AFFORD TO PAY THE OTHER HALF OF MY SALARY??? "OH YEAH THE YANKEES ILL GO THERE"
WRRRRRRRONG WE ACTUALLY EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO PLAY WHEN WE NEED YOU!!!!!

[Nathan]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

TO 3AROD AND NATHAN

I find your point of views of AROD very interesting
3AROD TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS HE PUTS UP
NATHAN TALKING ABOUT POWER THAT HE HAS AND HOW PEOPLE WOULD TREAT JETER IF HE DID THE SAME THING AS AROD.

HERE IS MY REBUTTLE TO BOTH OF YOU
3AROD - NUMBERS??????? AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WHAT NUMBERS????
1) HERES A NUMBER FOR YOU: IN 2006 SEASON AROD WAS #6 IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE (THE WHOLE LEAGUE) IN HITTING BALLS INTO DOUBLE PLAYS - WHICH MEANS NOT ONLY DID HE CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE OUT HE ALSO HURT HIS TEAMATES CHANCES.
2) HERES ANOTHER NUMBER TO LOOK FOR IN ALL HIS SEASONS WITH THE YANKEES IN CLUTCH SITUATIONS WHEN HE WAS NEEDED MOST WHEN IT WAS 2 OUTS AND HES UP TO BAT (KISS IT A GOOD NIGHT - GAMES OVER BECAUSE AROD IS A GAURANTEED CHOKE)
3) LETS TALK ABOUT WHEN THE PLAYOFFS ARE HERE (YELL AROD) - ECHO ECHO ECHO ANYONE SEEN AROD
4) LETS TALK ABOUT ALL THE HOME RUNS HE HIT IN 2006 35 OR HOW ABOUT 2005 48 WOW HE HIT THAT MANY HOME RUNS TOO BAD NONE OF THEM WERE WHEN WE NEEDED THEM WHEN WE WERE DOWN BY A RUN OR 2
NO HE HITS HOME RUNS WHEN WERE BLOWING OUT THE OTHER TEAM ALREADY BY 10 RUNS "GEE THANKS AROD FOR TACKING ON ANOTHER RUN"

NATHAN - POWER??? YEAH THATS WONDERFUL CAN YOU ASK AROD TO USE HIS POWER WHEN WE NEED IT
JETER WOULDNT GET THE SAME TREATMENT IF HE DID WHAT AROD DOES - I THINK THATS THE SELF EXPLANATORY - BECAUSE IT'S WHAT AROD DOES NOT JETER

LETS ASK THE GENERAL QUESTION WHY IS AROD SO HATED???

ITS PRETTY SIMPLE HERE IS A GUY WHO DEMANDS THE HIGHEST SALARY TO PLAY ON A TEAM AND PRODUCES ONLY FOR HIMSELF - NOW YOU CAN ARGUE WELL THE YANKEES ARE ONLY PAYING HALF HIS SALARY THERE NOT REALLY PAYING HIM THAT MUCH BUT GUESS WHAT YOU WANTED TO COME TO THE YANKESS YOU ALREADY KNEW THEY ARE A HIGH PRESSURE TEAM FROM THE FANS AND MANAGEMENT - IT WASNT A SECRET HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS GETTING IN TOO. HE SHOULD HAVE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IF HE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE PRESSURES OF BEING EXPECTED A LOT FROM. NO HERES WHAT HE THOUGHT WHAT OTHER TEAM CAN AFFORD TO PAY THE OTHER HALF OF MY SALARY??? "OH YEAH THE YANKEES ILL GO THERE"
WRRRRRRRONG WE ACTUALLY EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO PLAY WHEN WE NEED YOU!!!!!

I think you've been around here long enough to know to turn the caps lock key off, so I won't bother bringing that up.

It's funny because as soon as I hit "submit" on my last post, I started looking for a way to edit it before remembering that I couldn't. What I was going to add was "This is pre-emptive before some buffoon brings up the illogical notion of 'clutch play'".

1) What's your point? If the best knock against a guy's production is hitting into double plays, that's not much of a case. I could unearth someone who never gets a GIDP because his average is around .170 and he strikes out a ton. Why not tell us who had more GIDP? Oh yeah....Troy Glaus, Paul Konerko, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, and Victor Martinez. What a bunch of scrubs they are.

2) Blah blah blah, "clutch". "Clutch play" is the sports equivalent of "Oh yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad". You can't prove a point, so you concoct some fantasy about "clutch play". (This isn't just you personally, it's a lot of people who consider themselves intelligent and knowledgeable).

If a guy has 6 RBIs on the night and strikes out to end the game, how on earth can you say he's not "clutch"? He's done an awful lot to that point and the failure of his teammates to pull their weight is ridiculous. It sounds like Skip Bayless's anti-Lebron rants.

Should I bring up someone like Mariano Rivera? The guy has this "clutch" reputation, and the ONE TIME that he was in the ultimate "clutch" situation (Bottom 9, Game 7 World Series, 2001) he gagged away a one-run lead to the freakin' Arizona Diamondbacks. Does anyone go "Boy, he's awful when it really matters"? Of course not, even though Rivera was the primary cause of losing a World Series by blowing the "clutch situation".

3) Rodriguez has been terrific in the playoffs with the exception of two series (2005 and 2006 ALDS). Jeter was atrocious in the 2001 ALCS and World Series, both of which certainly seem to be more important than an ALDS. So I guess Jeter choked on the biggest stage of them all, didn't he?

4) See point #2. If you don't like Rodriguez, trade him for a Bernie Carbo clone, who's not anything good but dang it, he hit a big home run in one situation when the '75 Red Sox needed it.

Let's set a situation for you. Runner on first, bottom 9, two outs. Do you take your chances with Jeter, whose likely upside is to slap a single? That'll put the runner at second (possibly third). Or do you go with Rodriguez, who's far more likely to get the extra-base hit to score the runner? Both guys have fairly similar batting averages and OBPs, with Rodriguez having the power.

Of course, your likely retort will be "Jeter would hit a home run because he's CLUTCH, but Rodriguez would strike out and then go punch a nun because he's GARBAGE!"

5) If you want to talk demands, how about ripping Roger Clemens? He's making as much as Rodriguez while playing roughly 130 fewer games.

If Yankees fans want to demonstrate idiocy by rejecting one of the two best players in baseball today (Pujols being the other), that's their prerogative. Red Sox fans did the same thing with Ted Williams so at least there's precedent.

[3arod13]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

"Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!"

hi tony,

i find that statement of yours interesting. personally, i believe that, for the most part, it is about the game. i'm there to watch baseball and whether a player is surly or nice or an idiot or not is pretty much irrelevant. fact is, i don't know the players and i hardly think the sports media is a great source of objective info from which i ought to draw my opinions. however, every now and then, a player will so completely cross the line of human decency that, for me, it would be absurd to turn a blind eye and pretend it's just about the game. darryl strawberry and michael vick come to mind. beyond any subjective or trivial notions of stupidity or rudeness, vick is such an incredibly reprehensible and vile piece of crap that for me to watch him solely as a quarterback would be disingenious and impossible as a human being.
are people really expected to watch games and actually pretend to forget that they're watching a completely depraved person? "well he's smacked his wife around, smacked his pregnant girlfriend around, committed adultery, shoved half of columbia up his nose, neglected to support his kids, etc.. but wow what a sweet swing!". it's a little absurd isn't it? it's like some fantasy bubble where people are somehow expected to forget shocking realities and focus solely on relatively trivial things; to cheer a player who, in his free time, trains dogs to tear themselves apart for his amusement. at some point, for me, on-field performance becomes completely meaningless in light of a players off-field activities because i can't somehow pretend, for a couple of hours, not to have any sense of morality or disgust.
do you ever draw the line? or is it always about the game? could arod ever do anything to make you feel that, in light of his offenses, his baseball skills are meaningless?

i'm genuinely curious.

thanks,

rudy.

Rudy, well said. Yes, there are many things that arod does that I personally don't care for or wouldn't do myself. However, as a baseball fan, I care what he does on the field. If arod flipped fans the bird; spit on a player or umpire; threw his bat at a player or umpire; showed up late for games; refused to go onto the field; etc., then those things I care about as a baseball fan. Remeber, there are many HOFers who haven't played the game cleanly and/or had the best reputation and/or personal conduct.

Think about this. There are many good people in this forum. People share information and buy and sell from each other. We have many great converstations and some people even become good friends. Now let's have someone dig into their past and present life and put out all negative information about that person. All of a sudden, opinions are made and things change. Some may even refuse to chat with or deal with that person again. That's fine. We all have that right. However, for me as a collector, it's about collecting. If I knew you cheat on your wife (which I personally don't care for) and you have a GU Bat that I want for my collection, I'm buying it. Your personal business is your personal business. Has nothing to do with collecting. For me as a baseball fan, it's about baseball.

Peoples personal life is their personal life. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people love to openly and negatively judge others (even though they have their own skeletons in their closet).

Enjoyed the topic and reading all the comments and opinions.

[3arod13]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

Rudy, well said. Yes, there are many things that arod does that I personally don't care for or wouldn't do myself. However, as a baseball fan, I care what he does on the field. If arod flipped fans the bird; spit on a player or umpire; threw his bat at a player or umpire; showed up late for games; refused to go onto the field; etc., then those things I care about as a baseball fan. Remeber, there are many HOFers who haven't played the game cleanly and/or had the best reputation and/or personal conduct.

Think about this. There are many good people in this forum. People share information and buy and sell from each other. We have many great converstations and some people even become good friends. Now let's have someone dig into their past and present life and put out all negative information about that person. All of a sudden, opinions are made and things change. Some may even refuse to chat with or deal with that person again. That's fine. We all have that right. However, for me as a collector, it's about collecting. If I knew you cheat on your wife (which I personally don't care for) and you have a GU Bat that I want for my collection, I'm buying it. Your personal business is your personal business. Has nothing to do with collecting. For me as a baseball fan, it's about baseball.

Peoples personal life is their personal life. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people love to openly and negatively judge others (even though they have their own skeletons in their closet).

Enjoyed the topic and reading all the comments and opinions.

Let me add that if I had an opportunity to hang out with and/or become friends with someone who conducts themselves in this manner, I would chose not to do so, as this would then personally affect my life.

My previous comments aren't to reflect that I don't care about this type conduct or that I simply don't care what people do. I do.

For me, It begins with the first pitch and ends with the last out. Before and after is their personal business. But yes, I don't like the many things I read in the media also. If it wasn't reported, we'd only be talking baseball.

[suave1477]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

I think you've been around here long enough to know to turn the caps lock key off, so I won't bother bringing that up.

It's funny because as soon as I hit "submit" on my last post, I started looking for a way to edit it before remembering that I couldn't. What I was going to add was "This is pre-emptive before some buffoon brings up the illogical notion of 'clutch play'".

1) What's your point? If the best knock against a guy's production is hitting into double plays, that's not much of a case. I could unearth someone who never gets a GIDP because his average is around .170 and he strikes out a ton. Why not tell us who had more GIDP? Oh yeah....Troy Glaus, Paul Konerko, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, and Victor Martinez. What a bunch of scrubs they are.

2) Blah blah blah, "clutch". "Clutch play" is the sports equivalent of "Oh yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad". You can't prove a point, so you concoct some fantasy about "clutch play". (This isn't just you personally, it's a lot of people who consider themselves intelligent and knowledgeable).

If a guy has 6 RBIs on the night and strikes out to end the game, how on earth can you say he's not "clutch"? He's done an awful lot to that point and the failure of his teammates to pull their weight is ridiculous. It sounds like Skip Bayless's anti-Lebron rants.

Should I bring up someone like Mariano Rivera? The guy has this "clutch" reputation, and the ONE TIME that he was in the ultimate "clutch" situation (Bottom 9, Game 7 World Series, 2001) he gagged away a one-run lead to the freakin' Arizona Diamondbacks. Does anyone go "Boy, he's awful when it really matters"? Of course not, even though Rivera was the primary cause of losing a World Series by blowing the "clutch situation".

3) Rodriguez has been terrific in the playoffs with the exception of two series (2005 and 2006 ALDS). Jeter was atrocious in the 2001 ALCS and World Series, both of which certainly seem to be more important than an ALDS. So I guess Jeter choked on the biggest stage of them all, didn't he?

4) See point #2. If you don't like Rodriguez, trade him for a Bernie Carbo clone, who's not anything good but dang it, he hit a big home run in one situation when the '75 Red Sox needed it.

Let's set a situation for you. Runner on first, bottom 9, two outs. Do you take your chances with Jeter, whose likely upside is to slap a single? That'll put the runner at second (possibly third). Or do you go with Rodriguez, who's far more likely to get the extra-base hit to score the runner? Both guys have fairly similar batting averages and OBPs, with Rodriguez having the power.

Of course, your likely retort will be "Jeter would hit a home run because he's CLUTCH, but Rodriguez would strike out and then go punch a nun because he's GARBAGE!"

5) If you want to talk demands, how about ripping Roger Clemens? He's making as much as Rodriguez while playing roughly 130 fewer games.

If Yankees fans want to demonstrate idiocy by rejecting one of the two best players in baseball today (Pujols being the other), that's their prerogative. Red Sox fans did the same thing with Ted Williams so at least there's precedent.

Nathan first I would like to say WOW WOW I couldnt believe what you wrote and I am assuming you beleive what you wrote. Did you read what you wrote before you hit the submit button lol lol

1) You said if my best knock on a guy is for causing into double plays??? Uh helooooo that is a big deal, it means he costs us a lot of games, so when a player can indivdually cause you a game uuuuh yeah that is a big deal. But I see your best retort is to point out other players, were not talking about other players were talking about AROD. You remind me of back in elementary school always looking for someone else to put blame on "but mikey did it" - I tell you what, I am gonna help you out lets talk about the other players Tejada, Glaus and others.... none of them are getting paid to produce like AROD.
2)Blah Blah Blah Clutch Play??? that is a huge deal since when has a clutch player been idiocrocy? Since when has that not been a needed talent of a player? You said what if AROD has 6 RBI'S in a game but doesn't come through in the clutch - well I have yet to see AROD bring in 6 RBI'S when we were down (find a better example). Here we go again you bring up another player because you really have nothing to positive say about ARODS clutch performance. So lets talk about Rivera, did he blow a huge game for us YES is that the norm for him NO. If Rivera stats is Blowing one huge game during his career compared to AROD losing us so many games during every season that it hinders our possibility of clinching, ILL TAKE RIVERA ANY DAY.
3) AROD has been terrific in the playoffs except for 2005 & 2006??? Uuum he's only been on the team 2004 2005 2006 so that means hes already hindered 2 out of the 3 seasons of playoffs, unless my math is wrong thats already 2/3 of his career with us - last time I checked thats not terrific.
Here we go again with you bringing up another player JETER, was he atrocious in the 2001 alcs and World Series are those bigger stages as you put it YES But guess what??? you need to win the ALDS first before you get to those which seems like AROD can't do. Lets not forget that Jeter who played bad in 2001 only previously helped us win 4 World Series but your right Jeter is horrible lol lol
4) In that clutch situation who would I rather see your right Jeter why would I want your so called POWER PLAYER AROD when all he will do is strike out into a double play when I can have Jeter who will get on base.
(To be honest with you I didnt even understand how you were trying to make #4 a good point???)
5) Here we go again talking about another player Clemens I never said I liked the fact of Clemens gettng paid so much but I am not the one who brokered the deal and we will see what he does come playing time.

NATHAN I got to hand it to you your points were completely empty. It amazes me how an AROD fan can back up there player with out having one good thing to say about there own player but to point out a negative of other players.
Nathan I think you have pointed out more players in your last argument then you even talked about anything positive about AROD. hmmmmmm wonder why?????

[3arod13]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

I will also add one last thing. I too don't like that arod doesn't come through in the clutch at the most important times needed. Get frustrated when, the caliber player that he is, fails to make the difference in certain games. Yell at the TV when he makes an error that impacts the outcome of a game, etc. Those actions are all game related. But I also don't take those bad moments and totally forget all the other good things that he's done on the field and during his career. Yes, I know, Arod hasn't been involved in winning a world series (yet).

By the way, how quickly everyone forgot how arod made a big impact for the Yankees in April. Wonder how many games they would have lost if he didn't perform as he did (yes, I realize that didn't last long and that also frustrates me too, and I also realize it's not in the post season).

[cjclong]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

After reading the discussion I would have to agree with a number of the writers that ARod is not the best "clutch hitter" in the game. I would much rather have Jeter in the 8th or 9th inning of a one run game. (And check his post season stats, he's hit a surprising number of homeruns). That being said there is something for homeruns and rbi's over the course of a year. Let's say your team is ahead 4-1 in the 5th inning and a batter , let's say ARod, hits a 3 run homerun to put his team ahead 7-1. Then over the last 3 innings the other team scores 4 runs. Going into the the 9th inning the score is 7-5 for ARods team. That 2 run lead in the 9th inning is important. If the lead holds ARods team wins. Also, a two run lead keeps the other team from playing for one run to tie. So sometimes numbers put up in the middle of a game determine the late inning outcome of the game often more than we realize. All those middle inning runs with a team ahead aren't meaningless. Enough "meaningless" runs in the middle innings can put the game out of reach so the 8th and 9th innings aren't as important. Would I rather have a player like Jeter or David Ortiz in the 9th. Sure. But hitters like ARod who put up big number during the year do contribute to a winning season, just not in the same dramatic way certain better clutch hitters do.

[suave1477]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

3AROD ok at least you understand.

As far as his April month its not a matter of forgetting its a matter of AROD being AROD.
If you remember he did the same thing last year. In the begining of the season he jumped off to a huge lead in Home Runs and after the first month or 2 his bat went dead.
I remember last year all the talk with him hitting so many Home Runs in the begining and the media was saying "wow on his pace he's estimated to hit over 80 home runs". He ended up with 38.
I felt the same this season, I even got a little excited myself, I was like wow this may be ARODS turning point but I also said to myself remember what happened last year.
Looks like l was right!!! after April his bat just died.
I mean the way he was hitting home runs in April he was on a pace for over 100 this year. Looks like that's not gonna happen.

[suave1477]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

cjclong thats a great scenario and I can agree with you fully but thas not what normally happens

In that same scenario it usually goes more like this game is up Yankees are winning 7 - 1. AROD hits 2 Home Runs in that game making it 9 - 1. Mean while the other team doesn't get a chance to score again because the whole Yankees team is so pumped there not letting anyone get steals, hits or anything.
And at the end of the everyone makes AROD the hero of the game because he hit 2 home runs to a game that we were already winning by other players who contributed more then he did.
THEN THERES THE NEXT NIGHT
We are playing the same team score is 3-2 from early in the game we got 1 out a man on first AROD up to bat - he swings and hits the ball into a double play.Hes out, the man on first is out and the inning is over.
I WOULD REPAT THIS 3 MORE TIMES BUT I DONT WANT TO TAKE UP TO MUCH SPACE - SO THE POINT IS
AROD goes 0-4 we lose the game 3-2

[3arod13]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

3AROD ok at least you understand.

As far as his April month its not a matter of forgetting its a matter of AROD being AROD.
If you remember he did the same thing last year. In the begining of the season he jumped off to a huge lead in Home Runs and after the first month or 2 his bat went dead.
I remember last year all the talk with him hitting so many Home Runs in the begining and the media was saying "wow on his pace he's estimated to hit over 80 home runs". He ended up with 38.
I felt the same this season, I even got a little excited myself, I was like wow this may be ARODS turning point but I also said to myself remember what happened last year.
Looks like l was right!!! after April his bat just died.
I mean the way he was hitting home runs in April he was on a pace for over 100 this year. Looks like that's not gonna happen.

Fully understand. I'm a big arod fan and he frustrates the heck out of me also. How does someone with his ability, go so cold, so often for long period of time. Doesn't make sense to be, but I keep the faith.

[Nathan]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

Nathan first I would like to say WOW WOW I couldnt believe what you wrote and I am assuming you beleive what you wrote. Did you read what you wrote before you hit the submit button lol lol

1) You said if my best knock on a guy is for causing into double plays??? Uh helooooo that is a big deal, it means he costs us a lot of games, so when a player can indivdually cause you a game uuuuh yeah that is a big deal. But I see your best retort is to point out other players, were not talking about other players were talking about AROD. You remind me of back in elementary school always looking for someone else to put blame on "but mikey did it" - I tell you what, I am gonna help you out lets talk about the other players Tejada, Glaus and others.... none of them are getting paid to produce like AROD.
2)Blah Blah Blah Clutch Play??? that is a huge deal since when has a clutch player been idiocrocy? Since when has that not been a needed talent of a player? You said what if AROD has 6 RBI'S in a game but doesn't come through in the clutch - well I have yet to see AROD bring in 6 RBI'S when we were down (find a better example). Here we go again you bring up another player because you really have nothing to positive say about ARODS clutch performance. So lets talk about Rivera, did he blow a huge game for us YES is that the norm for him NO. If Rivera stats is Blowing one huge game during his career compared to AROD losing us so many games during every season that it hinders our possibility of clinching, ILL TAKE RIVERA ANY DAY.
3) AROD has been terrific in the playoffs except for 2005 & 2006??? Uuum he's only been on the team 2004 2005 2006 so that means hes already hindered 2 out of the 3 seasons of playoffs, unless my math is wrong thats already 2/3 of his career with us - last time I checked thats not terrific.
Here we go again with you bringing up another player JETER, was he atrocious in the 2001 alcs and World Series are those bigger stages as you put it YES But guess what??? you need to win the ALDS first before you get to those which seems like AROD can't do. Lets not forget that Jeter who played bad in 2001 only previously helped us win 4 World Series but your right Jeter is horrible lol lol
4) In that clutch situation who would I rather see your right Jeter why would I want your so called POWER PLAYER AROD when all he will do is strike out into a double play when I can have Jeter who will get on base.
(To be honest with you I didnt even understand how you were trying to make #4 a good point???)
5) Here we go again talking about another player Clemens I never said I liked the fact of Clemens gettng paid so much but I am not the one who brokered the deal and we will see what he does come playing time.

NATHAN I got to hand it to you your points were completely empty. It amazes me how an AROD fan can back up there player with out having one good thing to say about there own player but to point out a negative of other players.
Nathan I think you have pointed out more players in your last argument then you even talked about anything positive about AROD. hmmmmmm wonder why?????

Of course I believe what I said, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

1) How many times does a GIDP actually cost a team a game? A couple of runs (possibly), yes. But a game? Come on.

As for the other players I brought up, it proves a point. You make it sound like Rodriguez is alone at the top of a list with a bunch of scrubs. So you poke around and happen to find...one arbitrary number. The fact that in 2006, the guy hit into 22 double plays in 154 games. So, at best, that would mean that somehow Rodriguez single-handedly cost his team 1 in every 7 games. That'd come out to....what, a 132-22 record then in games that he played in?

2) You refer to "clutch play" as if it's something tangible and real. It's not. It's a philosophical illusion at best. Media snobs and people who want to look smart throw the label on anyone who they want to boost and reject it from anyone they want to cut down. If Rodriguez hit .550 with 9 home runs in the ALDS the last two years, you'd still be saying he's not "clutch" because the team didn't win.

3) No, I said Rodriguez has been terrific in every playoff series except for those two. What's more important, his MVP season of 2005 that, over 162 games, put the Yankees into the playoffs, or his 5-game performance in the ALDS? I'll point out that he still had a .381 OBP that series.

This is an example of why "clutch" is a bunch of horsedung. If Rodriguez has a decent year and the Yankees don't win as many games as a result (and miss the playoffs), then there is no playoff series to talk about. But because he performed at an MVP level to put the Yankees into the playoffs there became one. Take Rodriguez off the team the last two years and see how pathetic they would be. Heck, look at how pathetic they are this year even with him producing.

4) Um, whatever. The two players ground into double plays at pretty much exactly the same rate so one's not more likely than the other. The OBP is different by .003 so one's not really more likely to reach than the other. But the slugging percentage (which measures total bases) is 112 points higher for Rodriguez. Strikeouts aren't necessarily a bad thing simply because it prevents double plays and a player's ability to strike out doesn't offset an overall offensive picture.

5) Clemens will tank. He'll pitch roughly 120 innings and make $22 million. Based off your notion that Rodriguez doesn't produce what he gets paid to produce (which is absurd), Clemens will need to toss a no-hitter every time out, then do it in the postseason.

I'm not a Rodriguez fan, and I'm not a Yankees fan. To me there's nothing more soul-sucking than cheering for the Yankees, unless we're talking about the kind who are not only Yankees fans but also of Duke basketball, USC football, and the New England Patriots.

As for why I didn't "say anything positive" about Rodriguez, I don't need to. If people can't appreciate true greatness when they see it, that's not my issue. If Yankees fans can't appreciate a player who possesses every attribute of their golden boy (Jeter) except having a heck of a lot more power, it's not my place to sit here and try to prove why you should.

I have discussions like this with a friend on almost a nightly basis. This is an old argument for me.

[Nathan]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

cjclong thats a great scenario and I can agree with you fully but thas not what normally happens

In that same scenario it usually goes more like this game is up Yankees are winning 7 - 1. AROD hits 2 Home Runs in that game making it 9 - 1. Mean while the other team doesn't get a chance to score again because the whole Yankees team is so pumped there not letting anyone get steals, hits or anything.
And at the end of the everyone makes AROD the hero of the game because he hit 2 home runs to a game that we were already winning by other players who contributed more then he did.
THEN THERES THE NEXT NIGHT
We are playing the same team score is 3-2 from early in the game we got 1 out a man on first AROD up to bat - he swings and hits the ball into a double play.Hes out, the man on first is out and the inning is over.
I WOULD REPAT THIS 3 MORE TIMES BUT I DONT WANT TO TAKE UP TO MUCH SPACE - SO THE POINT IS
AROD goes 0-4 we lose the game 3-2

That's quite the strawman. How many times has that happened? Look it up, don't be shy.

Also, to follow up to the most recent response above this, if you're going to use "clutch play" (not just you, anyone), please provide a working definition of what it is.

[bigtime59]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

Miss Pay-Rod, primadonna that she is, still pines for the days when she and Derek Christ could have those fun-filled "sleepovers".
Sadly, those days are done. Now the league's most physically talented (and apparently tone-deaf) SS plays a mediocre 3b so the league's most overrated 2B can continue to play SS for the league's most self-important team.
I, for one, am tickled pink. However, I cannot for the life of me understand Miss Pay-Rod's predilection for East German women and silicone. Can you?????

[suave1477]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

Nathan hey leave Strawman alone lol lol thats hitting below the belt lol
By the way in Strawmans defense he never demanded the highest salary just the best nose candy money can buy lol lol

Look I agree with you AROD is and probabaly the greatest talented player there is and will be for a long time in the game.

And you can deny all you want what a clutch hitter is and what the term means but you know as well as I do in that ILLUSIONAL IMAGINARY PLACE CALLED CLUTCH AROD IS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND.

You also asked me to define clutch for you. I think its pretty simple and I actually definied it already a couple of times here one which you chose to comment on.
Here is a perfect example you said so if AROD grounds into a double play it may cost a couple of runs but a game?????
YESSSSSSSSSS if were down by a run or 2 and he has the opportunity to tie us or lead us, guess what thats where those couple of runs costs us a game.
Also review the scnerario i revised to cjclong when we need just that one run to tie us or lead us. AROD goes 0-4
If were up by a lot and its not needed AROD hits to home runs and he is turned into a hero WHYYYYYYY

[staindsox]

Re: ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

The best shortstop in baseball...maybe ever (and i have a hard time saying that because i love honus wagner) is playing third base. If Jeter were that great, he would have moved. Hell, Hank Greenberg moved to left field for Rudy York to play first.

What about Cal Ripken? There was a huge whole on his side of the infield and he was hitting .220 at the end. The manager's couldn't manage because Cal actually ran the team. The Orioles may have been better off if Cal had ended the streak much earlier.

Babe Ruth, the most popular athlete ever? Well...read Creamer's book on him.

My point is that no athlete is the perfect role model. Anyone, no matter how perfect they appear, have their flaws. Yes, I've heard bad things about Cal Ripken, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky...they are far more stable than the Albert Belles and Michael Vicks. I think you have to be overly confident and pretty self-absorbed to get as good as they are. Some just hide it better than others. These guys played sunrise to sunset every day when they were kids. Everything is second to their career. That is selfish in itself...but that's how they became superstars.

For example, I grew up loving Paul Molitor and Kirby Puckett. Everyone thought they were two of the greatest people in the game. Well, Kirby...everyone knows that story now. Paul did cocaine in the early 1980s, impregnanted a woman who was not his wife while playing for the Blue Jays, divorced, and is having a third child with another woman (I think he married her after his divorce went through). I don't think differently of them. They were my heroes and they were very kind to me when I met them. See, my heroes are flawed too.

I'm not writing to tear down other people's heroes. My point is that everyone has their flaws, even if you can't see them...even the Jeters and Ripkens. I think everyone needs to consider this before bashing a player because of a marital problem or "Hah." Anyone responding to this post defending Jeter, Ripken, or Ruth completely missed the point of what I'm saying.

Chris