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Pujols items
November 13 2005 at 11:18 PM Nate (Login nleet)
His foundation store is open.
http://store.pujolsfamilyfoundation.org/index.asp
Robert
(Login Rboitano1)
Re: Pujols items
November 14 2005, 1:53 AM
I know and completely understand that the proceeds go to charity which is great, but I think Albert is a little too proud of himself. $2000 for a pair of batting gloves? You could get batting gloves from Arod from all three teams he has played for signed and with a letter from Arod, and still have enough money for a pair of signed Barry Bonds gloves. Not to mention the $4000 cap, I really wonder who is pricing these items. I honestly cannot see anyone paying that kind of money for anything that is on that site. I would have to imagine that they will have to drop these prices probably about 75% of what they are asking. What does everyone else think?
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: Pujols items
November 14 2005, 10:34 AM
With all due respect, I think making a statement like "Albert is a little too proud of himself" is a bit unfair. First of all, he's never sold any of his game used equipment commercially for his personal gain. This is his first venture into the game used memorabilia marketplace, and 100% of the proceeds are benefitting children with Down Syndrome as well as children in orphanages in impoverished areas of the Dominican Republic. Is anyone familiar with either Bonds or A-Rod doing anything of this nature?
I certainly won't be lining up to pay $2000 for a pair of his batting gloves, but I think folks are missing the point here. The goal of the foundation is not to supply collectors with game used equipment. The goal of the foundation is to raise as much money as possible to help those who cannot help themselves. Isn't that a little more important than making sure collectors get a bargain on a pair of game used batting gloves???
Speaking as someone who has spent over a decade in nonprofit marketing and development, I can tell you that items like these are used to lure donations. In a sense, items like these are used as "premiums" in the world of development. It is pretty clear that these items are not being marketed to the game used collecting community. Philanthropists who might also be fans of Albert are the foundation's primary audience for this equipment - not us.
Folks, what we have here is a true rarity in the world of sports and sports memorabilia. Instead of entities like the Yankees, A-Rod, Bonds, and others selling game used equipment at high prices to fatten their own wallets, we have arguably the game's brightest star selling his equipment to benefit the greater good. Rather than blasting him for charging prices we cannot afford, let's take a step back, look at the bigger picture, and applaud the foundation for the work they are doing.
If a soiled pair of batting gloves can put food on the table and shoes on the feet of children in an orphanage in the Dominican Republic, I am all for charging $2,000 a pop. Heck, make it $5,000.
Respectfully submitted,
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Mike Hughes
(Login mphcollectibles)
Good Point
November 14 2005, 10:55 AM
I couldn't agree more. Pujols's game used jersey is bid up over $4,000 dollars on the Cardinals auction. If it it's for a good cause and someone is willing to buy it, then sell it at that price. Half of the stuff in these auction houses and charity golf events sell for way more money than they are worth, but I notice how the poster doesn't elaborate on that.
Andrew
(Login allstarsplus)
Charity
November 14 2005, 1:52 PM
Rob - The cause is great and nobody should question pricing or motives when it comes to charity, but anytime Albert's name comes up on this forum, you get somewhat aggressive in your responses. It is your right to do that but then you point fingers at others and make some definitive quotes.
You write, "Folks, what we have here is a true rarity in the world of sports and sports memorabilia. Instead of entities like the Yankees, A-Rod, Bonds, and others selling game used equipment at high prices to fatten their own wallets"
My point is, Why drag Alex's name into this? ARod was on TV this year giving $500,000 to the Boys and Girls Clubs Learning Center. That adds up to a lot of bats and batting gloves and for all we know that may have been more than his profit in selling his memorabilia. "Fattening his wallet" is a very offensive comment.
Albert is among many that are great role models for this game. I have the uptmost respect for Albert, and Alex and many other players that I know that give so much to charity.
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: Charity
November 14 2005, 2:22 PM
Andrew,
Thanks for the feedback. I have received many follow-up emails to my posts in this forum about Albert Pujols, but this is the first complaint I've had about being aggressive or offensive. I apologize to anyone I may have offended if the tone of my most recent post was overly "aggressive" - that most certainly wasn't my intent.
My only reason for bringing up A-Rod's name is because he was referenced in the post that criticized the foundation's pricing. A comparison was drawn between the items Pujols is selling and those you might purchase from a retailer that do not directly benefit any charitable organization - I was merely trying to explain the different between those items and what Albert is selling to benefit his foundation.
I applaud ANYONE, multi-million dollar athlete or convenience store clerk, who makes a selfless donation to a charitable cause. A-Rod's $500,000 contribution to the Boys and Girls Club is certainly admirable. The quote you referenced above wasn't meant to insult, but was intended to illustrate the difference between what Pujols is doing and what A-Rod, Bonds, and the Yankees have done. If I crossed a line with the words I chose, I apologize.
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: Charity
November 14 2005, 2:26 PM
Andrew,
You make reference to other Pujols-related posts in which I have been aggressive in my responses. I'd like to identify and review these posts so that I don't repeat this aggressive tone in future posts. If you get a chance, call or email me with specific examples. I appreciate your feedback.
Best,
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Rod
(Login Rodzilla25)
Pujols Items / Charity
November 14 2005, 4:14 PM
Being new to the forum and not wanting to continue to beat a "dead horse" but...Although AROD does not distribute his game used memorabilia/equipment through a foundation, he did/does use the money from the sale to donate to his charity (Boys/Girls Clubs of America). In the past he charged his memorabilia representatives a price for each signature, bat, jersey, hat, etc. from what I was told/heard. If I also recall he donated all proceeds from last years Holiday Homerun Event with Bonds to charity, unlike Barry.
In agreement with Rob, these foundations are defintely not established to supply collectors with memorabilia. My 2 cents worth, Thanks.
rudy
(Login kingjammy)
hang on a sec
November 14 2005, 6:57 PM
I don't mean to sully anyone's noble intentions but here are a few thoughts:
- Arod makes approx. $30 million a year including endorsements.
$500,000 is 0.02% of his income. I don't know if 'admirable' applies to an 0.02%
donation. But it's nice, don't get me wrong. It beats making $30 million and making
a 0.00% donation.
- On one hand, it's nice that Albert is trying to give so much to charity. On the other
hand, it seems like a financially brilliant idea to take items you receive for free
like bats and gloves, charge a gargantuan markup on them, donate that money to charity
(let's say sales from his site on these items total $100k a year), and then
at the end of the year you get a $100k tax writeoff on money that didn't even come
out of your own pocket. Absolutely brilliant from a financial perspective.
It's one thing to take $500k from your own pocket and get a tax writeoff. The writeoff
is still not going to equal the $500k you gave out. That is, you've still 'lost' money
on the deal. It's another to take no money out of your own pocket and still receive a
sizeable writeoff. Not only do you get the writeoff but at the same time, these charitable
donations get lots of great press which translates into more endorsement deals.
There's a huge payoff in "charitable work" which is why so many celebs do it. Has nothing
to do with altruistic notions and many of them can't afford not be seen in magazines
or tv, cutting the ribbon to some puppy hospital.
- "ARod was on TV this year giving $500,000 to the Boys and Girls Clubs Learning Center."
"I applaud ANYONE, multi-million dollar athlete or convenience store clerk, who makes a
selfless donation to a charitable cause."
Again, I don't mean to sully anyone's noble intentions but don't these 2 sentences seem
almost contradictory. That is, if he was ON TV giving a 500k donation then I have to wonder
how truly 'selfless' it was. An athlete's worth, both financially and employment-wise, is
partially tied to their popularity and their image. A player goes out, hugs a few orphans
on tv, cuts a ribbon at a the opening of a new cancer center and eventually they're selling
more tshirts, burgers, soft drinks, etc.
That 500k went far in building ARod's image and I'm sure helped the execs at Nike and
Pepsico feel good about doing further business with Alex. Why do it on TV?
I've always admired the celebs and athletes who make completely anonymous donations.
- I'm a little baffled why players like Bonds, Arod, Manny, etc even bother with memorabilia
sales if they're completely pocketing the money. It's come to light that some sort of
Manny Ramirez-created business sells his game used jerseys for $2k or $3k or whatever.
If they sell 15 "game worn" jerseys a year, that's $45k a year. $45k a year is probably
not enough to gas up all of Manny's cars for the year. What's the point for such a paltry
amount? Arod or Barry or Manny making $100k a year off memorabilia sales doesn't seem
worth their effort given the astronomical salaries they make.
Rudy.
Andrew
(Login allstarsplus)
Charity
November 14 2005, 7:04 PM
Rudy - We don't have the Schedule A of their tax returns to see all of what these guys give monetarily for charity. We usually only know the big things they do and not the total of everything these athletes do.
rudy
(Login kingjammy)
re: charity
November 14 2005, 7:19 PM
andrew:
right. none of us knows if barry bonds sits down every year and quietly writes a check for
$5 million to the american cancer society.
for me personally, it's a little disingenous when they appear on tv, smiling, with a huge
oversized novelty check saying "look how much i'm donating, everyone!" (make sure they get
this in sports illustrated. steinbrenner's gonna love this)
rudy.
p.s. even more financial saavy from the pujols situation: everyone here admitted they'd never
pay his prices. that is, he could never sell those items for those prices in the marketplace.
instead, he sells them as charitable items for huge prices. so his 2 choices would be:
sell them in the marketplace for market prices, make $30k a year and pocket the money;
or sell them in the charity market and make a $90k tax writeoff. to me, the $90k writeoff is
more appealing.
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: re: charity
November 14 2005, 7:49 PM
For the record, when you donate an item to a charity you are only legally allowed to deduct what you determine to be the fair market value (which you must be able to back up with documentation if necessary). Albert Pujols can charge $10,000 for a pair of batting gloves, but he doesn't get a $10,000 deduction for them if they sell for that price. He'll get a fair market value deduction, and the buyer will receive a deduction of the amount he/she paid OVER the fair market value.
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Andrew
(Login allstarsplus)
Re: re: charity
November 14 2005, 10:15 PM
We are getting off topic, but this reminds me of when John McCain made this a part of his run for President in 2000 regarding the inequities in the tax codes using appraised appreciated assets for purposes of charitable deductions. Fair market value can be determined by qualified appraisal.
Charitable Gifts of Collectibles
Some of the most exciting opportunities for planning for collectibles are charitable techniques. Structured properly, charitable gifts and bequests of collectibles can be a tax-efficient way of keeping a collection intact.
Unfortunately, along with the planning opportunities, there are a number of tax traps regarding transfers of collectibles to charity. The income tax charitable deduction for a gift of appreciated collectibles to a public charity depends on whether the charity's use of the gift is deemed "related" or "unrelated" to the charity's charitable purpose.
If the gift's use is related, the client is entitled to a deduction for the property's fair market value - up to 30 percent of the client's adjusted gross income. If the gift's use is unrelated to the charity's charitable purpose, the client is only entitled to a deduction equal to her cost basis in the property - up to 50 percent of the donor's adjusted gross income.
Note: Please consult your tax advisor.
November 13 2005 at 11:18 PM Nate (Login nleet)
His foundation store is open.
http://store.pujolsfamilyfoundation.org/index.asp
Robert
(Login Rboitano1)
Re: Pujols items
November 14 2005, 1:53 AM
I know and completely understand that the proceeds go to charity which is great, but I think Albert is a little too proud of himself. $2000 for a pair of batting gloves? You could get batting gloves from Arod from all three teams he has played for signed and with a letter from Arod, and still have enough money for a pair of signed Barry Bonds gloves. Not to mention the $4000 cap, I really wonder who is pricing these items. I honestly cannot see anyone paying that kind of money for anything that is on that site. I would have to imagine that they will have to drop these prices probably about 75% of what they are asking. What does everyone else think?
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: Pujols items
November 14 2005, 10:34 AM
With all due respect, I think making a statement like "Albert is a little too proud of himself" is a bit unfair. First of all, he's never sold any of his game used equipment commercially for his personal gain. This is his first venture into the game used memorabilia marketplace, and 100% of the proceeds are benefitting children with Down Syndrome as well as children in orphanages in impoverished areas of the Dominican Republic. Is anyone familiar with either Bonds or A-Rod doing anything of this nature?
I certainly won't be lining up to pay $2000 for a pair of his batting gloves, but I think folks are missing the point here. The goal of the foundation is not to supply collectors with game used equipment. The goal of the foundation is to raise as much money as possible to help those who cannot help themselves. Isn't that a little more important than making sure collectors get a bargain on a pair of game used batting gloves???
Speaking as someone who has spent over a decade in nonprofit marketing and development, I can tell you that items like these are used to lure donations. In a sense, items like these are used as "premiums" in the world of development. It is pretty clear that these items are not being marketed to the game used collecting community. Philanthropists who might also be fans of Albert are the foundation's primary audience for this equipment - not us.
Folks, what we have here is a true rarity in the world of sports and sports memorabilia. Instead of entities like the Yankees, A-Rod, Bonds, and others selling game used equipment at high prices to fatten their own wallets, we have arguably the game's brightest star selling his equipment to benefit the greater good. Rather than blasting him for charging prices we cannot afford, let's take a step back, look at the bigger picture, and applaud the foundation for the work they are doing.
If a soiled pair of batting gloves can put food on the table and shoes on the feet of children in an orphanage in the Dominican Republic, I am all for charging $2,000 a pop. Heck, make it $5,000.
Respectfully submitted,
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Mike Hughes
(Login mphcollectibles)
Good Point
November 14 2005, 10:55 AM
I couldn't agree more. Pujols's game used jersey is bid up over $4,000 dollars on the Cardinals auction. If it it's for a good cause and someone is willing to buy it, then sell it at that price. Half of the stuff in these auction houses and charity golf events sell for way more money than they are worth, but I notice how the poster doesn't elaborate on that.
Andrew
(Login allstarsplus)
Charity
November 14 2005, 1:52 PM
Rob - The cause is great and nobody should question pricing or motives when it comes to charity, but anytime Albert's name comes up on this forum, you get somewhat aggressive in your responses. It is your right to do that but then you point fingers at others and make some definitive quotes.
You write, "Folks, what we have here is a true rarity in the world of sports and sports memorabilia. Instead of entities like the Yankees, A-Rod, Bonds, and others selling game used equipment at high prices to fatten their own wallets"
My point is, Why drag Alex's name into this? ARod was on TV this year giving $500,000 to the Boys and Girls Clubs Learning Center. That adds up to a lot of bats and batting gloves and for all we know that may have been more than his profit in selling his memorabilia. "Fattening his wallet" is a very offensive comment.
Albert is among many that are great role models for this game. I have the uptmost respect for Albert, and Alex and many other players that I know that give so much to charity.
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: Charity
November 14 2005, 2:22 PM
Andrew,
Thanks for the feedback. I have received many follow-up emails to my posts in this forum about Albert Pujols, but this is the first complaint I've had about being aggressive or offensive. I apologize to anyone I may have offended if the tone of my most recent post was overly "aggressive" - that most certainly wasn't my intent.
My only reason for bringing up A-Rod's name is because he was referenced in the post that criticized the foundation's pricing. A comparison was drawn between the items Pujols is selling and those you might purchase from a retailer that do not directly benefit any charitable organization - I was merely trying to explain the different between those items and what Albert is selling to benefit his foundation.
I applaud ANYONE, multi-million dollar athlete or convenience store clerk, who makes a selfless donation to a charitable cause. A-Rod's $500,000 contribution to the Boys and Girls Club is certainly admirable. The quote you referenced above wasn't meant to insult, but was intended to illustrate the difference between what Pujols is doing and what A-Rod, Bonds, and the Yankees have done. If I crossed a line with the words I chose, I apologize.
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: Charity
November 14 2005, 2:26 PM
Andrew,
You make reference to other Pujols-related posts in which I have been aggressive in my responses. I'd like to identify and review these posts so that I don't repeat this aggressive tone in future posts. If you get a chance, call or email me with specific examples. I appreciate your feedback.
Best,
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Rod
(Login Rodzilla25)
Pujols Items / Charity
November 14 2005, 4:14 PM
Being new to the forum and not wanting to continue to beat a "dead horse" but...Although AROD does not distribute his game used memorabilia/equipment through a foundation, he did/does use the money from the sale to donate to his charity (Boys/Girls Clubs of America). In the past he charged his memorabilia representatives a price for each signature, bat, jersey, hat, etc. from what I was told/heard. If I also recall he donated all proceeds from last years Holiday Homerun Event with Bonds to charity, unlike Barry.
In agreement with Rob, these foundations are defintely not established to supply collectors with memorabilia. My 2 cents worth, Thanks.
rudy
(Login kingjammy)
hang on a sec
November 14 2005, 6:57 PM
I don't mean to sully anyone's noble intentions but here are a few thoughts:
- Arod makes approx. $30 million a year including endorsements.
$500,000 is 0.02% of his income. I don't know if 'admirable' applies to an 0.02%
donation. But it's nice, don't get me wrong. It beats making $30 million and making
a 0.00% donation.
- On one hand, it's nice that Albert is trying to give so much to charity. On the other
hand, it seems like a financially brilliant idea to take items you receive for free
like bats and gloves, charge a gargantuan markup on them, donate that money to charity
(let's say sales from his site on these items total $100k a year), and then
at the end of the year you get a $100k tax writeoff on money that didn't even come
out of your own pocket. Absolutely brilliant from a financial perspective.
It's one thing to take $500k from your own pocket and get a tax writeoff. The writeoff
is still not going to equal the $500k you gave out. That is, you've still 'lost' money
on the deal. It's another to take no money out of your own pocket and still receive a
sizeable writeoff. Not only do you get the writeoff but at the same time, these charitable
donations get lots of great press which translates into more endorsement deals.
There's a huge payoff in "charitable work" which is why so many celebs do it. Has nothing
to do with altruistic notions and many of them can't afford not be seen in magazines
or tv, cutting the ribbon to some puppy hospital.
- "ARod was on TV this year giving $500,000 to the Boys and Girls Clubs Learning Center."
"I applaud ANYONE, multi-million dollar athlete or convenience store clerk, who makes a
selfless donation to a charitable cause."
Again, I don't mean to sully anyone's noble intentions but don't these 2 sentences seem
almost contradictory. That is, if he was ON TV giving a 500k donation then I have to wonder
how truly 'selfless' it was. An athlete's worth, both financially and employment-wise, is
partially tied to their popularity and their image. A player goes out, hugs a few orphans
on tv, cuts a ribbon at a the opening of a new cancer center and eventually they're selling
more tshirts, burgers, soft drinks, etc.
That 500k went far in building ARod's image and I'm sure helped the execs at Nike and
Pepsico feel good about doing further business with Alex. Why do it on TV?
I've always admired the celebs and athletes who make completely anonymous donations.
- I'm a little baffled why players like Bonds, Arod, Manny, etc even bother with memorabilia
sales if they're completely pocketing the money. It's come to light that some sort of
Manny Ramirez-created business sells his game used jerseys for $2k or $3k or whatever.
If they sell 15 "game worn" jerseys a year, that's $45k a year. $45k a year is probably
not enough to gas up all of Manny's cars for the year. What's the point for such a paltry
amount? Arod or Barry or Manny making $100k a year off memorabilia sales doesn't seem
worth their effort given the astronomical salaries they make.
Rudy.
Andrew
(Login allstarsplus)
Charity
November 14 2005, 7:04 PM
Rudy - We don't have the Schedule A of their tax returns to see all of what these guys give monetarily for charity. We usually only know the big things they do and not the total of everything these athletes do.
rudy
(Login kingjammy)
re: charity
November 14 2005, 7:19 PM
andrew:
right. none of us knows if barry bonds sits down every year and quietly writes a check for
$5 million to the american cancer society.
for me personally, it's a little disingenous when they appear on tv, smiling, with a huge
oversized novelty check saying "look how much i'm donating, everyone!" (make sure they get
this in sports illustrated. steinbrenner's gonna love this)
rudy.
p.s. even more financial saavy from the pujols situation: everyone here admitted they'd never
pay his prices. that is, he could never sell those items for those prices in the marketplace.
instead, he sells them as charitable items for huge prices. so his 2 choices would be:
sell them in the marketplace for market prices, make $30k a year and pocket the money;
or sell them in the charity market and make a $90k tax writeoff. to me, the $90k writeoff is
more appealing.
Rob Steinmetz
(Login RobSteinmetz)
Re: re: charity
November 14 2005, 7:49 PM
For the record, when you donate an item to a charity you are only legally allowed to deduct what you determine to be the fair market value (which you must be able to back up with documentation if necessary). Albert Pujols can charge $10,000 for a pair of batting gloves, but he doesn't get a $10,000 deduction for them if they sell for that price. He'll get a fair market value deduction, and the buyer will receive a deduction of the amount he/she paid OVER the fair market value.
Rob Steinmetz
Authentic Gamers, Inc.
www.authenticgamers.com
authenticgamers@aol.com
708.250.5220
Andrew
(Login allstarsplus)
Re: re: charity
November 14 2005, 10:15 PM
We are getting off topic, but this reminds me of when John McCain made this a part of his run for President in 2000 regarding the inequities in the tax codes using appraised appreciated assets for purposes of charitable deductions. Fair market value can be determined by qualified appraisal.
Charitable Gifts of Collectibles
Some of the most exciting opportunities for planning for collectibles are charitable techniques. Structured properly, charitable gifts and bequests of collectibles can be a tax-efficient way of keeping a collection intact.
Unfortunately, along with the planning opportunities, there are a number of tax traps regarding transfers of collectibles to charity. The income tax charitable deduction for a gift of appreciated collectibles to a public charity depends on whether the charity's use of the gift is deemed "related" or "unrelated" to the charity's charitable purpose.
If the gift's use is related, the client is entitled to a deduction for the property's fair market value - up to 30 percent of the client's adjusted gross income. If the gift's use is unrelated to the charity's charitable purpose, the client is only entitled to a deduction equal to her cost basis in the property - up to 50 percent of the donor's adjusted gross income.
Note: Please consult your tax advisor.
--and I don't put ANY blame on Albert for this problem. The people who I am speaking of know exactly who they are.
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