Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

[ghostkid]

I've finally decided to part with some of my difficult-to-find bats. This grouping is for a few of my Zinn Beck 100 Diamond Ace bats. All of these bats have been authenticated and graded by MEARS as "professional model" bats from the 1920's. "Professional Model" is the fancy new terminology for what used to be called game used bats. In case you are not familiar with Zinn Beck bats, there is a very informative article posted in the Archived News of the MEARS website (www.mearsonline.com). As pertains to these bats, MEARS has found photo evidence and sidewritten examples showing Zinn Beck 100 Diamonf Ace bats were used in professional baseball (major and minor leagues). Since factory records do not exist for the Zinn Beck Bat Company, 3 points are automatically deducted from the grade of any zinn Beck bat. Thus, the highest grade attainable is A5, unless the bat comes with special provenance or an autograph, etc.

Each of these bats show fantastic game use with heavy ball marks and surface stitch marks. Please email me if you would like additional information or pictures. All of these prices include shipping.

1. Rogers Hornsby 100 Diamond Ace, graded A4.5, $2000
2. George Sisler 100 Diamond Ace, graded A4, "incredible wood", $2000
3. KiKi Cuyler 100 Diamond Ace, graded A3.5, $1500
4. Ellis (Rube?) 100 Diamond Ace, graded A3.5, $900

Kevin Kasper
kevinkasper@netzero.com

[ghostkid]

Re: Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

The Hornsby Diamond Ace 100 bat has been sold. The Sisler, Cuyler, and Ellis Diamond Ace 100 bats are still available, but perhaps not for long. I've had a few interested parties, but mostly waiting on $$$ to become available. Let me know if you're interested...the first one with the $$$ takes the bat(s).

Kevin Kasper
kevinkasper@netzero.com

[suave1477]

Re: Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

"Professional Model" is the fancy new terminology for what used to be called game used bats.

Ghost actually thats not true a "Professional Model" bat is not new terminology for Game Used.

A Professional Model bat is usually a specific model that a player would have used during his career. They are not game issued but are made afterwards usually for souveniers and/or autograph signings.

A good example is SteinerSports they ordered a batch of bats from Louisville Slugger of Don Mattinglys bat the same as he played with during his career so they can have Don, autograph them and sell the same bat as he played with in his career but just to sell as a cool looking autographed bat.

They even did it with Jeter so this way they can sell Jeter autographs to the people who will not pay thousands for his autograph on a Game Used bat.

Professional Models - are normally not intended for Game Use so they are not considered Game Issued.

[b.heagy]

Re: Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

suave1477, I agree with what you are saying as far as the terminology but Kevin's bats are authentic vintage examples from each of the players playing days. Lacking shipping records for Zinn Beck bats it is at this point impossible to deam them game used without provenance. Hard to compare what they do today with shows and signings with ordering professional model bats to a day when there were no shows. Not saying that the players used those particular bats because we simply do not know until some proof can surface. It is known that players did use 100 Diamond Ace models. All his bats come with a MEARS coa. I am not arguing with you just pointing out that you are comparing new to old and in this case you cant do that (in my opinion).

Bill

[ghostkid]

Re: Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

Bill,

Thank you for your thoughts. When I first read sauve's comments I was quite concerned that he was passing along misinformation to the readers of this thread...thankfully you have cleared up some of the problem and helped me with damage control. I encourage sauve or anyone else to contact the bat authenticators/experts for clarification on the "professional model" terminology as it relates to vintage bats, then report back with their findings.

I do not collect newer bats, so I don't exactly know the definition of "professional model" as it relates to newer bats. As for vintage bats (before model numbers), the term "professional model" seems to be synonomous with "game used". For example, I have a few very expensive bats that have been reviewed by both the MEARS team (Bushing/Kinunen) and the PSA/DNA guys (Taube/Malta). These bat experts tell me I have gamers, but the title of their letters always say "professional model" instead of "game used". The auction houses seem to be fond of using the "game used" language in their lot titles, but the authenticators clearly shy away from that language. Does anyone have an example of a letter where the title calls the bat game used? If so, please post a picture.

In summary, Bill is correct in saying that there is currently no rock-solid proof Zinn Beck bats were widely used in the major leagues in the 1920's. I'm aware of at least one photo that shows a Zinn Beck bat lined up with others outside the NY Yankees dugout, and there are many examples of sidewritten Zinn Beck bats that were found in the H&B vault (including a Hornsby sidewritten model). To me, this proves the Zinn Beck bats were used by at least some professional ballplayers, whether they be major or minor league players. Suffice it to say, much more research still needs to be done...and the MEARS team is working on that.

In case you're interested, Left Field Collectibles has a few Zinn Beck sidewritten bats for sale on their website:
(http://www.leftfieldcollectibles.com...ductList.aspx).
It's interesting research, even if you do not plan to buy one.

Kevin Kasper
kevinkasper@netzero.com

[ghostkid]

Re: Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

Okay, I have had decent interest but no buyers (as of yet) for my Zinn Beck 100 Diamond Ace bats. In fact, the guy who said he wanted the Hornsby is a newbie who has since backed out of the deal. Given this turn of events, I'd like to invite you to make an offer on any of the bats that interest you. I'll give serious consideration to all reasonable offers. Email your offers and/or any questions or requests for pictures to kevinkasper@netzero.com

Thanks,
Kevin Kasper

[ghostkid]

Re: Zinn Beck Bats For Sale (Hornsby, Sisler, Cuyler, Ellis)

I posted a question on the MEARS Bulletin Board regarding the terminology of "professional model bat" versus "game used bat", as it relates to vintage bats. Basically, my question was whether or not "professional model" and "game used" have the same or similar meanings. Below is Dave Grob's reply. Hopefully this helps to clarify the meaning of "professional model bat".



Kevin,

Great question…let me take a shot at this as this naming convention was a concern of mine as the Policy Director. I felt it is more accurate to refer to the item in any title description based on what it actually is without respect to game use or player attribution. These are factors that are addressed in the work sheet and supported evaluation.

These items, on a factual basis for example are:

1921-1931 Babe Ruth Professional Model Bat
1999 Derek Jeter NY Yankees Home Jersey
1973-1975 Mickey Mantle Store Model Bat

What the rest of our process involves evaluating the use with respect to both degree and player attribution. This is something I have always felt is the more accurate and responsible means of identification.

Prior to our position with respect to this naming convention, it seemed that the hobby standard was to call everything “Game Used”, something I have never supported. While various auction houses will chose to describe lots in many ways, MEARS will maintain our position for above stated reasons.

The example definitions that where offered to you with respect to your bats are both incorrect based on what we consider a professional model bat to be. The professional model bat is just that, a bat that was manufactured by quality and characteristics with the intent of being used in support of professional contest. This permits us to make differentiations between those that show no use or player attributions. We have all seen the bats identified as “Game Used You-Name-A Player Bats” when they show no use, but have a player number on the knob. This also allows us to account for bats that may have been manufactured past a players playing days and used in their capacity as a coach.

Of course, none of this is made any easier by those instances where you will find what is labeled as a store model bat that has been returned back to the manufacturer with side writing and vault markings. This further underscores the need for a detailed evaluation.

Bottom line to all this is when someone puts “Game Used” in their title, it does not make it any more Game Used than does omitting it from the title exclude it from being such. I tell folks that they should not be buying a title description or a letter. They should be buying the item based on the confidence they have in the piece and the totality of the supporting process and documentation.

Hope this helps…

Dave Grob