Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

I was clarifying an opinion by some that Donald Frangipani only authenticated for the Marino gang.

He has authenticated for many different people and companies, not just the Marinos.

Thus, if you see his cert on something, that does not automatically mean the item came from the Marinos, or one of their associates.

This is another version of my answer to the previous question posted for me, for those of you who do not understand my previous post.

[slidekellyslide]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Sammy, what you say about Mr. Frangipani being at one time the "go to guy" doesn't make him any more reliable than we know him to be. HBO sports exposed his "Expertise". I'm not saying the signature on the bat is real or fake, but nobody should ever rely on anything Mr. Frangipani has an opinion on.

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Hi Rob,

I'm aware of DF's numbering system because I have been in this business a long time, and have seen and know something about most of the well known people in this hobby, and quite a few that don't really want to be known.

In regard to "SEL", I really don't know who or what that stands for. It could be someone's name, city, or special code. Mr. Frangipani would generally use someone's initials, but he has been know to switch to town abbreviations and codes for special requests.

There are a lot of people who used Donald Frangipani besides the Marino clan. He was once considered the "Go To" guy for authentication purposes. His COAs were at one time used in a lot of major auctions and by many sellers, including Sotheby's.

I seriously doubt there will be any more indictments in regard to anything Mr. Frangipani has done or may be related too.

[Rob L]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Dang,

I wish someone would have taken my 50.00 bet.

Sammy, how do you know so much about DF's numbering system? Also, who is "SEL"? I don't think that the SEL initials were in the original Operation Bullpen. Maybe some more indictments soon?

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Dang,

I wish someone would have taken my 50.00 bet.

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Correction, I believe the side writing is actually 37 / 38 oz W. T. Core 9-24-24.

Tim Byington
t_byington@yahoo.com

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Hi Everyone,

Here's the update: Today I received the bat complete with LOA from Donald Frangipani as well as the certificate of examination from PAAS stating that the autograph cannot be authenticated for the following reasons:
Sizing of letters, Atypical letter angle, slant, and/or pitch, irregular letter shape and/or formation, irregular spacing between letters, irregular strokes/pen movement, lacks flow and spontaneity.

Now for the good stuff!

The bat is NOT 33" as listed in the auction. It is actually 36" and 29.7 oz and is a 1921-31 pre-powerized H&B with SIDE WRITING opposite of the Babe Ruth "autograph". As far as I can tell from examining the sidewriting it is "37 / 38 3/5 W.T. Core 9-24-24". Could also be W.T. Gore? Pretty exciting I think!

Now all I have to do is try to decide whether or not I should pursue the Ruth auto having any possible legitimacy and try to find out more about Mr. Core (Gore?).

If anyone knows sidewritten bats (Marcus?) and would like to help find out a bit more about it since I've never owned one please chime in or email me at t_byington@yahoo.com

Thanks!

Tim Byington

[slidekellyslide]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Sammy, it sounds like maybe you know more than we do about autographs, but you have to admit that Frangipani is NOT a reliable source for authenticating autographs.

[sammy]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

I have 50.00 that says Simon agrees with me and fails the autograph.

Any suckers, I mean takers.

This is a juvenile attempt at a Babe Ruth signature.






Hi Tim,

Please post the results when you get the bat back.

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

After contemplating the situation for quite awhile I decided that once I receive the bat I'm going to send it off to Richard Simon for authentication. I have already emailed Mr. Simon about it and am hopeful that he will be able to tell me for sure whether the bat is good or bad.

At this time, I am hopeful to actually receive the bat. I've sent two emails to the seller in the last 35 hours without response and just found out that his phone has been disconnected. This alone has me doubting as to whether or not I actually get the item.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Tim Byington

[mjkm90]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Regardless of what anyone tells you, do not destroy the bat! If the signature isn't legit, simply sand and refinish it. A nice hand turned H&B (assuming the stamping is early) will be worth $100-$200 easy. The only thing against "the bat" is that it's under 34". Post a clear photo of the branding here when you get it.

[Rob L]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

The fact that DF writes on the bat itself with what appears to be a Sharpie-type pen on the knob is horrible. Low class all the way.

Rob L

[slidekellyslide]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

I agree with Rob....You should have this looked at by Richard Simon or another expert. Donald Frangipani is NOT an expert. Just don't destroy the signature or bat until you're 100% satisfied because it does look like a Ruth signature.

[Rob L]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

Richard Simon would be a better bet for authentication and his price is less than GAI and PSA/DNA. The signature, if fake, is close enough that it wouldn't hurt to have reinspected. The bat was not auctioned correctly if the seller was trying to sell the autograph (which he wasn't). PAAS requires that three members authenticate the signature. If one of the three is sure, they will not pass. DF is not a reliable authenticator.

Every once in a while an item will come up that is not auctioned correctly. My best pickup was a sheet from an autograph book that contained eight signatures of the 1933 Indians, including Walter Johnson. The guy who sold it knew little about baseball and had a "BIN" price of $ 75.00. I saw it, realized it was authentic, and bought it an hour after it was listed. It has since passed authentication. These deals are out there.

Just my $ 0.02.

Rob L

[bat_master]

Re: Babe Ruth Signed Bat? Help Requested

I agree that the seller was honest in the description. As of right now I have sent two requests to the seller for additional photos of the signature and of the H&B label on the bat. They have so far gone unanswered which makes me a bit nervous.

I think the biggest concern I have with this bat is not so much "What if it's fake?" The answer to that is pretty easy. If it's fake I remove the signature and resell it simply as an old bat. I believe the much more difficult question is "What if it's real?". I'm just not sure how much money I would want to stick into it to find out.

Sammy's suggestion of relisting it on ebay and using the PSA quick opinion would be an option so I might do that. However, I'm not sure that would be conclusive evidence either way. Part of me just wants to take the easy way out and use it to warm up the house in the fireplace.

As of right now I'm open to any all opinions on this bat both good and bad. I'm extremely grateful for the knowledge and am very pleased that a forum such as this exists.

Thanks

Tim Byington