Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

[camarokids]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

The item should speak for itself. Even if you have the paperwork, the item could be suspect. Paperwork can be switched or forged.

A game used Derek Jeter bat will speak authenticity by itself.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

If you can point those so called "collectors" my way, and when I sold them "fair market value" of the Brooklyn bridge which connected to the newly Brooklyn Nets - whom will play the entire NBA league, which will give me access a lot of their game used jersey off their back - you will get 25% finder fee.



No one in their right mind would pay for anything "fair market value" without some kind of paper works. Unless I saw Jeter handed the bat over to a person, and then that person wants to sell it to me for $500 - then that bat will forever stay in my collection!

If you were a Brunell collector, what kind of paperwork would you need to see on this jersey before you would buy it? Would you de-value it due to lack of paperwork? Let's just say if it was on eBay and you thought you might get a deal on it because of no paperwork, there are collectors who would make sure you wouldn't.

[commando]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

If you were a Brunell collector, what kind of paperwork would you need to see on this jersey before you would buy it? Would you de-value it due to lack of paperwork? Let's just say if it was on eBay and you thought you might get a deal on it because of no paperwork, there are collectors who would make sure you wouldn't.

Apparently all your Brunells must be dirty like that. But if some are not, and show little to no use, then that's what I'm talking about.

Nice jersey by the way. I don't feel like I need paperwprk for this jersey, either:

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

Apparently all your Brunells must be dirty like that. But if some are not, and show little to no use, then that's what I'm talking about.

Nice jersey by the way. I don't feel like I need paperwprk for this jersey, either:

No, they are not all nearly that dirty, but I wish they were! I do love a trashed jersey, nice one!!!

[Jags Fan Dan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

And I guess I should be more specific in my response. My point is that I am of the opinion that while paper work may be nice, it's absence should not necessarily be a deal breaker. The Brunell jersey I showed does not have any, and I don't think if it were for sale that anybody would care that it doesn't have paperwork. Obviously, it is an extreme example, but as camarokids said, the item has to speak for itself at some point.

Another personal example I have is a pair of Jay Bruce batting gloves I bought not too long ago. They style match to 2008. They are signed and inscribed "game used 2008". They were reportedly obtained from Just Minors, but the seller lost the COA. But they look identical to other Just Minors Jay Bruce gloves I have seen, the signature matches up, and the style match as mentioned was good. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll accept that it's a duck without the paperwork.

[commando]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

And I guess I should be more specific in my response. My point is that I am of the opinion that while paper work may be nice, it's absence should not necessarily be a deal breaker. The Brunell jersey I showed does not have any, and I don't think if it were for sale that anybody would care that it doesn't have paperwork. Obviously, it is an extreme example, but as camarokids said, the item has to speak for itself at some point.

Another personal example I have is a pair of Jay Bruce batting gloves I bought not too long ago. They style match to 2008. They are signed and inscribed "game used 2008". They were reportedly obtained from Just Minors, but the seller lost the COA. But they look identical to other Just Minors Jay Bruce gloves I have seen, the signature matches up, and the style match as mentioned was good. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll accept that it's a duck without the paperwork.

Very well said, Dan. Here's the kind of jersey that worries most of us.... Here is a fully-tagged 2001 Jerry Rice Raiders jersey currently on eBay. B-E Collectibles is selling it and are clearly stating the jersey is NOT GAME USED. A very, very nice jersey, and B-E is a great seller... But it can be easily purchased by someone who creates a new story for it. If I owned a game-used Rice Raiders jersey, I'd keep a close eye on this type of thing. It's too bad that eBay has become so anonymous...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Oakland-Raiders-NFL-Professional-Model-Jersey-80-Jerry-Rice-/330752574220?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0263c30c

[tella27]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

When you can photo match a jersey or item to being game used it's always best. The thing is people are faking GU jerseys and bats (I remember there being a thread about a certain member adding his own "touches" to a bat). When people are spending hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on items there are always going to people that fake them. Items don't always have paper work but it really comes down to doing your homework on an item.

[jppopma]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

While a perfect photo match is better than any LOA in my opinion...there are some pretty odd buyers out there. Even if 9 of 10 people are okay without paperwork, that one oddball not bidding would still equate to a loss of value.

If a major Brunell fan was looking for a jersey like that and had a wild hair that he wanted to get it framed (and have the LOA framed with it)...it could result in a lower price or maybe even a blown deal.

We can't always expect or understand what a "customer" wants. Most of us on the forum are like minded, but we are not the only customer base out there.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

How many true photo matches are there really? Most of what I see people claim to be photo matches are really style matches. Many jerseys have no distinct markings on them and are impossible to photomatch.

[marino13]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

How many true photo matches are there really? Most of what I see people claim to be photo matches are really style matches. Many jerseys have no distinct markings on them and are impossible to photomatch.

Amen.

If there is one PERFECT photomatched item, there are 1000s of non-photomatch items.

I will not PURCHASED any item without proper LOA/COA - photomatched doesnt do it for me.

[MikeSharon]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I agree with an earlier poster who stated the item should speak for itself. How many mistakes have the so called experts made and then been called out on here on this forum. To give a brief example Nolan Ryan rainbow Astros jerseys from 1984-1986 made by goodman and sons. The goodman Astros jerseys never had tags in the collars yet we have all seen numerous examples of that jersey with a goodman tag in the collar auctioned off with LOA stating they game used they were not could not have been because that is not how the company made them at the time. The person who buys a item with an LOA simply because of the letter is asking to be taken advantage of. Do your research and make sure you know what you are buying before you buy it dont rely on a someone who you most probabaly have never met opinion because that all most LOA's are is some ones opinion.

[G1X]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

I agree with an earlier poster who stated the item should speak for itself. How many mistakes have the so called experts made and then been called out on here on this forum. To give a brief example Nolan Ryan rainbow Astros jerseys from 1984-1986 made by goodman and sons. The goodman Astros jerseys never had tags in the collars yet we have all seen numerous examples of that jersey with a goodman tag in the collar auctioned off with LOA stating they game used they were not could not have been because that is not how the company made them at the time. The person who buys a item with an LOA simply because of the letter is asking to be taken advantage of. Do your research and make sure you know what you are buying before you buy it dont rely on a someone who you most probabaly have never met opinion because that all most LOA's are is some ones opinion.

The bold, underlined comments in Mike's above statement are some of the wisest words of wisdom ever posted in this forum. I am amazed and somewhat saddened at the number of "paper collectors" in this Forum who are hooked and dependent on pieces of paper. As I have stated on previous occasions, I have a drawer full of paperwork I've received over the years containing errors, omissions, and various other types of misinformation. The bad paperwork comes from all corners of the hobby ranging from poor research by authenticators to teams and leagues that make glaring mistakes, not to mention paperwork provided by ill-informed sellers and outright dishonesty by others.

I understand the fact that some collectors do not have the time and/or inclination to do their homework and become experts in what they collect, and it is certainly not my place to dictate to them that they do so, or insist that my way is the right way of doing things. However, I can plead to those of you who consider yourselves to be "serious" collectors. Please kick the habit! Do your homework and study the items you collect. Become your own expert so that you do not have to depend on the paper.

If you truly love collecting game-used items and take the time to study this craft, it will be quite rewarding when you get to the point where you no longer need a piece of paper to tell you what you already know. Not only will you greatly benefit from this, you will also be helping your fellow collectors and the hobby in general.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Looking for World Football League (1974/75) game-used items

[joelsabi]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

As Ronald Reagan use to say "Trust but verify"

[WadeInBmore]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

While paperwork isn't the end all be all, it is now to have a paper trail. Its hard to say how many times items with some age hit the market with no paper trail and people get up in arms about it.

I've bought items with and without... I try to do my homework the best that I can. I do think it's neat when you know where the item came from and who has owned the item over time.

While the COA/LOA may not be needed for some items, it sure doesn't hurt anything to have documentation with it. BUT as its already been stated, that paper doesn't mean the item is "good".

[coxfan]

Re: Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value

As I noted in some earlier thread, my pet peeve is dealers who don't keep their own records adequately when they buy the items. As a result, their own paperwork thereafter is meaningless. All it takes is one break in the provenance trail.