Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

[David]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

A bit off topic, but I saw for auction a while ago a pair of Joe Montana game used cleats, which I believe the consignor won in a charity auction or something on that order. The offered cleats came with the original mailing box, postmarked and with San Francisco 49ers return address. I though, now that's good provenance documentation.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

Lund,
Is this Paul Gaines? I never knew who it was, just that he was the source on a jersey I owned once.

Roger

[lund6771]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

yep...that's him

[mvandor]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

sold - buy it now. did a forum member pick it up?

I would bet my bringing it to everyone's attention cut the legs out from under me. I was awaiting more info before jumping on this.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

I did not mention the differences in the autograph on the helmet and the letter. Here are some real autogaphs. Experts comment in on this.

Roger

[lund6771]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

I just checked my Montana jersey that was worn & signed within 3 months of he Jan 1991 letter....the auto is exactly like Rogers and the auto on the helmet...

I'm no auto expert, but the signiture on the letter doesn't look anything like any Montana autos that are on e-bay as well

[beantown]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

sold - buy it now. did a forum member pick it up?

I believe the buyer is on this forum ....Dave aka: "CollectGU"...

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

I found this picture in a book called 49ers the first fifty years. It is attributed to the 12/3/90 game vs Giants on Monday night.


Roger

[mvandor]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

Well, you have a style match, if not a photo match. Clear evidence this style helmet was worn by Joe in Dec. 90. And the sig looks VERY legit on both the helmet and the letter to me, I've seen hundreds of his and it's very distinct.

I'm betting this lid gets flipped. What was Dave's fav auction house again?

[aeneas01]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

I found this picture in a book called 49ers the first fifty years. It is attributed to the 12/3/90 game vs Giants on Monday night.


Roger

great find roger - clearly a riddell. getty image #76489138 shows montana in that mnf game as well but the photo is not nearly as conclusive as yours. so that was the game before the cincy game. getty image #76989925 shows montana in the game prior to the giants game, against the rams, and montana is sporting his air helmet.

I would bet my bringing it to everyone's attention cut the legs out from under me. I was awaiting more info before jumping on this.

yeah, this forum is probably not the best place to ask for info regarding an item you really want - kinda ironic, eh?

...

[lund6771]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

Well, you have a style match, if not a photo match. Clear evidence this style helmet was worn by Joe in Dec. 90. And the sig looks VERY legit on both the helmet and the letter to me, I've seen hundreds of his and it's very distinct.

I'm betting this lid gets flipped. What was Dave's fav auction house again?

I know nothing about photoshop, so I can't point out the differences in the sig, so I'll try to describe what I see...

on the "M", the pen goes down first and then up to at the beginning of the letter "M"....the letter M on the LOA goes staight up at the beginning

the most obvious difference is when he writes the letter "T", it does a curve, and then he finishes the "ANA" up above and to the right of the "MON" ...in the LOA it's nothing like this...

[lund6771]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

the helmet has a black mark on the stripe at the top of the helmet

this distict mark would make it very easy to video match

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

I do not have hundreds of Montana autographs but I do have several that I know are real. I have never seen anything like the auto on the letter. I am suspect of that in a whole. The auto on the helmet looks good from my perspective. I would not give 2 cents for the auto on the letter. I have several copies of 49er letters from that era, emailed me by other collectors, and they are all like the one that I posted. The typewriter font is totally different on some.
I do not know if the helmet is real, there is a good possibility. I know this Paul did get things from Montana at some time. I do not like the letter in anyway. That does not make the helmet no good. After the new owner examines it I would like him to post better pictures to verify the color and watermark. If it turns out to be real, it is a significate piece from Montana's career. It would be interesting to trace the ownership.
Roger

[mvandor]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

I do not have hundreds of Montana autographs but I do have several that I know are real. I have never seen anything like the auto on the letter. I am suspect of that in a whole. The auto on the helmet looks good from my perspective. I would not give 2 cents for the auto on the letter. I have several copies of 49er letters from that era, emailed me by other collectors, and they are all like the one that I posted. The typewriter font is totally different on some.
I do not know if the helmet is real, there is a good possibility. I know this Paul did get things from Montana at some time. I do not like the letter in anyway. That does not make the helmet no good. After the new owner examines it I would like him to post better pictures to verify the color and watermark. If it turns out to be real, it is a significate piece from Montana's career. It would be interesting to trace the ownership.
Roger

I will only say that as a businessman of over 30 years, I know every order of stationary my companies placed didn't come on identical stock, purchasing departments get the best deals they can, stock becomes unavailable, etc. Further, different departments in organizations often had slight differences in their supplies. As for fonts, 1991 most businesses were by then on computers with a spattering of old IBM electrics hanging on. I think it's safe to assume that there is no guarantee that letters typed for the equipment manager and a star player were typed at the same work station or using the same printer.

As for the signature, the 'J' - the most consistent part of Montana's sig, is spot on. I don't share your discomfort with the sigs on helmet or letter, so long as personal inspection confirms the sig is original ink, not a photo copy or stamp of some kind.

If I had won this, I probably would have sent it in to MEARS for a look and letter of opinion. Given that if it's legit, it'd go at a MUCH higher fee at a major auction house than what it ebayed for, I'd have trouble not flipping it myself.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Joe Montana Game Used Lid?

Mvando,
I realize that you have never had a real 49er letter in your hands to evaluate, so what you know about this subjet is, nothing. There are no cubicals and work stations in a equipment room. Your rationalizations to your business experience is ignorant.

You have no idea on autographs either. They got one letter right? You need MEARS.

Roger