GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

[seven4five20]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

The fact is that it could have been anyone that originally misrepresented the jersey. It could have been the first owner, or the sixth owner. These days jerseys get passed around like Madonna did earlier in her career.

It was a rather sloppy job by one or more people, but you just don't know who "manufactured" the game use, so I think it is unfair to point fingers.

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

If a private seller sold these to GFC, then the seller's representation is completely irrelevant. Who cares if they said the jerseys were game-used? GFC is responsible for conducting their own independent examination of the jersey and rendering their own opinion. To anyone with an ounce of brains, this analysis would naturally include a call to MeiGray. If, on the other hand, GFC was the original purchaser of these jerseys...

This is twice now that GFC has done this. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, ..anyone wanna dig up some more GFC-authenticated 2003-2005 Rangers jerseys and see if we can make it a third time?

Joel, a "set up"? On a simple level, it's impossible seeing as how nobody but GFC wrote those GFC LOAs. At the end of the day, the onus is on GFC for their verdict. On a more sinister level, I believe I understand what you're implying and it seems like nonsense. Here:

A 2002 Dan Miceli "game-worn" jersey auctioned off by AMI, LOA'd by Lampson.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=17442

Again, a call into MeiGray shows this jersey was sold as "game issued". Another "set up"? At some point, you've got to stop waving that GFC flag.

By the way, did the boys at MEARS ever reply to your email and address why they're unable to discern a retail jersey from a gamer?

Rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Incidentally, that GFC 2003 Palmeiro was previously sold at a June 2005 Lelands auction:

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=41&auctionid=506

Rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

And before being sold in the June 2005 Lelands auction, it was sold in the
December 2004 Lelands auction?:

http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?lot=1131&auctionid=412

Rudy.

[R. C. Walker]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

If you actually believed this headache was not on the horizon when the term “Game Issued” was recently introduced (relatively speaking). Wait until all the Steiner Yankees game issued are washed a couple times.

What a mess it will be!

[hblakewolf]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

When I first read this post, I was tempted to buy the jersey. I have seen many Palmiero jerseys with the MeiGray LOA in the past, but the fact that this particular one had the all important Grey Flannel LOA really cinched the deal for me! I just went to their web site, however, and it appears the item is "no longer in the data base" or available.

If anyone should locate another star alternate blue Rangers jersey, especially Hank Blalock, with a Grey Flannel LOA and void of the original MeiGray paperwork, please let me know. At this rate, should expect to hear from one of you by this Friday?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Since you do not know who originally purchased these jerseys from MeiGray, may I respectfully suggest you refrain from making comments that I can quite confidently state you would regret if you had that information.

MeiGray does have the records of who originally purchased these jerseys. While we will not share that information publicly, I can share with you, Joel, the belief that your post would read differently if you were privy to that information.

Rest assured, that the original purchaser of these jerseys will not be offered any game-issued jerseys again by MeiGray.

Barry, nice job. You leave us all wondering if it was bought right from Grey Flannel or not, but you make us all very curious with your post. I am sorry, I was making the point that since your company only knows who bought the items, Grey Flannel could have been set up and none of us would know.

Now, if I owned a company such as yours I would have never made a post in a public discussion group leaving the door open to an answer that most of us would hate to hear (Oh wait, Rudy wants all 3rd party authenticators to burn) since we all wish to believe the best for our authenticators.

So where do you wish to leave us with this discussion? Do you want to indirectly point at Grey Flannel with your post and make me look like an idiot? What did I do or say that got under your skin. I just can't believe the people on here wish to attack Grey Flannel without all the knowledge of this item. No one but your company knows who bought these jerseys, so why do you tell me to refrain from making comments?

I take the side that all is good until proven otherwise because people on here wish to incriminate without the facts. If you know the facts, don't beat around the bush. Either publish the information or don't leave us hanging that I won't like your answers. You don't have to comment, but don't vaguely post about it pointing me out because I took the honest side.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Barry, nice job. You leave us all wondering if it was bought right from Grey Flannel or not, but you make us all very curious with your post.

Joel, Nice job
You speak regularly why the "insiders" don't post on this forum, and then you try to call out the insider of all insiders.

[trsent]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Joel, Nice job
You speak regularly why the "insiders" don't post on this forum, and then you try to call out the insider of all insiders.

Say what you want, but Barry posted that we wouldn't like the answer to the question at hand leaving us in the dark, which is fine. I know my business policy is not to name names when it is asked who bought an item from my company. This is a general business policy.

My original issue was that Grey Flannel was being pinned with doctoring jerseys without any proof that they did it themselves. Barry came back and told me not to discuss as I won't like the answers.

That looks like finger pointing to me and it didn't seem right. I have no problems with Barry or his company, they seem to do a fine job at what they do. This whole issue has me confused, and at a loss because it appears Barry said we will not like to know the truth, which raises hidden suspicions which just isn't right.

[Mike Grueber]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Rather than asking Barry if Grey Flannel was the original purchaser of these jerseys, wouldn't it be more appropriate to ask Grey Flannel to acknowledge whether it was the oriiginal purchaser of these jerseys from the Meigray Group?

Since Grey Flannel was the party found to be selling game-issued jerseys as game-worn, it seems like the onus should be on it to explain how that happened.


Mike Grueber

[trsent]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

You are right, and as a businessman I would expect that MeiGray would not publish who bought items from them unless it became a legal issue. The issue here is I am pretty sure that Grey Flannel does not respond to issues on this forum due to a feeling that they do not get a fair shake on this board.

Maybe someone would contact them for a statement if they even have been informed of the situation already.

[hblakewolf]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Joel-
Yesterday, I received an email from Richie Russek at Grey Flannel about the first Rangers jersey in question, the Arod. The folks at Grey Flannel are well aware of the contents and postings on the Forum. Likewise, when a jersey that is offered on their website is sold, it is marked as sold or unavailable, however, is still shown with the other jerseys that are for sale. In the case of this Palmiero jersey, it is no longer even on their site! It has been removed. Joel, based on this information, it seems only appropriate for someone at Grey Flannel to respond to this post, and hopefully, also shed light on the other Arod Rangers jersey in question.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[BarryMeisel]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Joel,

You did not get under my skin. I do not know you personally. In fact, I appreciate and respect your enthusiasm for the hobby. I also agree with your philosophy that people are innocent until proven guilty, and I was not attempt to finger-point.

I was attempting to warn those who offer opinions without all the facts. If you took that personally rather than literally, I apologize, because I did not mean it that way.

For legal and ethical reasons, I cannot publish the information of the original owner without permission. But I can warn those who might be making mistakes based on information MeiGray does have not to make those mistakes.

My only interest here is registering and authenticating game-worn jerseys, and doing my part as a dealer to help the hobby stay as clean as possible. MeiGray has invested heavily in a registration system that helps collectors.

All you have to do is use it, as Rudy did in this case.

I have seen many questions/inaccuracies/problems with game-worn baseball jerseys, as we all have. Since MeiGray has a deal with the Texas Rangers, we can offer a level of authenticity that is lacking with so many teams' jerseys.

You say I have raised suspicions and not offered the truth?

The truth is:

1) A jersey sold by MeiGray as game-issued to a well-informed original owner was sold as game-worn by a major authenticator that is well aware of MeiGray's registration system.

2) The jersey still had the inventory serial number in it, which would have made it incredibly easy for any subsequent owner to check on. MeiGray offers a toll-free number for this service.

3) Even if the jersey changed hands a number of times, and one or more owners did not know of MeiGray's registration system, the authenticator who put his name to the jersey is familiar with MeiGray's system, and of MeiGray's deal with the Texas Rangers. Of that we are certain.

Isn't that the real issue here: Why aren't the authenticators checking with the original source of the Texas Rangers jerseys? Why are they calling something game-worn without referring to our database?

Respectfully,

Barry

[hblakewolf]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Barry-
As always, a great job of cutting through the fluff and presenting just the facts.

Your statement, "Isn't that the real issue here: Why aren't the authenticators checking with the original source of the Texas Rangers jerseys? Why are they calling something game-worn without referring to our database?" is really the issue at hand.

As I noted in my earlier post, the folks at Grey Flannel are aware of this site, and were aware of the previous thread about this same problem associated with the Arod that they also wrote a LOA.

The folks at Grey Flannel are the only individuals who can provide factual insight to this entire issue, and hopefully, will respond with the desired information.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey

Ok, good, issues resolved. I was making the point that I doubt Grey Flannel was responsible for anything but authenticating a jersey that someone else must have altered before it came to them.

Howard, I have said it before, many auction houses and authenticators will not respond to any allegations on this forum because they are bashed after responding time and time again without their views being accepted. I was proud of the forum when Vintage responded a few months ago and their answers were accepted without making the situation worse.

I am through with this topic, I can only assume a dealer bought this jersey, fixed it up and sold it to Grey Flannel as game used, which it was not. Why they didn't check the numbers out with the system is not my concern, but I assume it looked good so they assumed it came from MeiGray as good and wrote their letter.

When I dealt in Upper Deck Authenticated memorabilia exclusively I called UDA to verify about 2% of the holograms of the items I bought. It just never crossed my mind, as I assume this was one big misunderstanding.

Then again, if the item was removed they must have been notified of the error and are correcting it.