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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
The only way to correct it is to burn the jersey so it can do no more harm!
The only way to correct it is to burn the jersey so it can do no more harm!
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Chris
NY Giants, NY Yankees, Don Mattingly, Mattingly brand bats (any player)
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donnie23fan at yahoo.com -
Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
so grey flannel had this jersey. they had it authenticated by a third party? they wrote a letter, and all they had to do was call an 800 number to verify its status? seems like a lot of work. i guess this is gonna be swept under the rug as a mistake. this is really bothersome to me. does anybody believe that grey flannel should have known better? isnt this a premier auction house? i am wondering now if any laws have been broken? i really dont expect any response from grey flannel here, do you?Comment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
When it comes to authenticating game-worn items, I am sure that experienced authenticators such as Grey Flannel know better than to simply accept someone else's assertion that a particular item is game-used. This holds true even in cases where an item was supplied by the very person who supposedly wore the item.
While Grey Flannel may believe that it's protecting its reputation and integrity by failing to explain why it did not call Meigray as part of its authentication process, I believe that Grey Flannel's silence is having exacty the opposite effect.
We are all human and make mistakes. We should all learn from our mistakes and move on. I, personally, have absolutely no interest in dealing with those who refuse to ackowledge and accept responsibility for their errors.
Mike GrueberComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
Hello Joel-Originally posted by trsent
I have seen you post this comment a few times and felt the need to respectfully disagree. There are clearly examples of authenticators (e.g., Barry Meisel from MeiGray) and auction houses (e.g., Mike Heffner from Lelands and Steve Jensen from Vintage Authentics)) who have taken the time to address the forum and not been "bashed" as you say. The forum has made great strides in making sure people post responsibly and will continue to make progress in that area. As such, I think the logic that people will get "bashed" is longer an acceptable reason not to address important questions on this forum that can benefit the hobby.
I also find this comment intriguing. I agree that what you proposed is the most likely scenario of what happened. However, why do you not think it is important to make sure the collecting community understands exactly what transpired (rather than leave it to individual speculation) as well as what will be done in the future to make sure it does not happen again? Please know that I am not challenging you for argument sake but I think fully understanding the situation will clearly benefit collectors and help them make more informed decisions in the future.Originally posted by trsent
The fact of the matter is, this forum has done its job in bringing to light something that deserves an explanation for the benefit of the community. In my opinion, being "through with this topic" at this point would only leave individuals to speculate on what actually transpired. While I am sure there is a rational explanation, I think the collecting community deserves to know what it is. In fact, given my generally positive opinions of Grey Flannel, I believe the disclosure of what happened (rather than leaving it to subjective speculation) will only benefit Grey Flannel in the long run.
Just thought I would add my humble opinion.
Sincerely,
Christopher CavalierChristopher Cavalier
Consignment Director - Heritage AuctionsComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
Well Hey!!!!
Heres A Thought Instead Of Everyone Going Back And Forth With Right And Wrong Here Has Anyone Herre Stepped Up To The Plate To Contact Greyflannel And Let Them Know Of The Situation?
I Mean Seriously Everyone Here Is Arguing About Why It All Happend And I Havent Seen One Person Say That They Have Contacted Grey Flannel!!!!Comment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
In the very first post in this thread, Rudy indicated that he had contacted Grey Flannel about this matter.Originally posted by suave1477
Mike GrueberComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
I personally sent Richie at Grey Flannel an email about the first Rangers jersey in question, the non-game worn ARod that they also wote a LOA for (indicating it was game worn).
The reply from Richie pointed out that they are the authenticators for the Basketball Hall of Fame, Yogi Berra Museum and also selected by the Yankees (no idea for what) and concluded with "Get a Life".
Based on the previous response, I don't think I'll waste my time on contacting them on the Palmiero jersey.
Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.netComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
Are you serious they actually told you to get a life?
If that is true!!
With hearing what you just said and with my experiences of American Memorabilia what the heck is this world coming too, Does business ethic and Professional courtesy not exist in Game Used collecting world?
You be damned to hear someone from Microsoft, Sony, Cablevision, Turner Broadcasting, Ford, Sara Lee and other Fortune 500 companies hang up a phone on you or to tell you get a life.
How do these authenticating companies plan to stay in business if they keep pissing off there own customersComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
Correct. The email ended with "Get a Life".Originally posted by suave1477
Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.netComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
Hello suave-Originally posted by suave1477
I agree with your recommendation. In fact, I have a call into Grey Flannel (I had to leave a message) and will let you know if I hear anything.
Sincerely,
ChrisChristopher Cavalier
Consignment Director - Heritage AuctionsComment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
I contacted GFC yesterday morning, prior to starting this thread. To date GFC has still not contacted me.
"Grey Flannel does not respond to issues on this forum due to a feeling that they do not get a fair shake on this board."
It doesn't take a genius to see they're getting an even worse shake by not posting. It's impossible to give someone a fair shake when they won't even give you the opportunity. They've never posted, yet they naturally presume the worst for themselves.
If Steve Jensen can do it, there's no reason Vari or anyone else can't as well. Jensen did it, issues were addressed, items were corrected, he got a fair shake, and at the end of the day, I came away with a better impression of Jensen and Vintage Authentics. Every time a GFC issue comes up, they sit there as quiet as mice and it doesn't help anyone. Especially them.
"Grey Flannel was being pinned with doctoring jerseys without any proof that they did it themselves"
Grey Flannel was never pinned with anything of the sort. They were pinned with acquiring game-issued jerseys and selling them as game-used. Noone ever mentioned anything about any sort of doctoring.
"Why they didn't check the numbers out with the system is not my concern"
That's the entire issue! As Barry put it: "..the real issue here: Why aren't the authenticators checking with the original source of the Texas Rangers jerseys? Why are they calling something game-worn without referring to our database?".
"it looked good so they assumed it came from MeiGray as good and wrote their letter."
That's "the standard of the industry"? God help the Basketball Hall of Fame if that's how GFC authenticates. Keith Vari acquired some 2003 Rangers jerseys and noticed they were missing their typical MeiGray paperwork. He chose to ignore that red flag, didn't bother to spend 4 minutes to contact MeiGray, and assumed the jerseys were fine. If that's what happened, then at best it's the epitome of sloppiness.
Like I said earlier, whatever the seller may have told GFC about the jerseys is completely irrelevant. Any possible manufactured use is irrelevant. At the end of the day, it was up to GFC to contact MeiGray. At least twice, they failed to do this.
Of course, I suppose the other real issue is whether GFC was simply negligent by genuinely forgetting to call MeiGray or whether the entire thing was intentional. If it's eventually revealed that these jerseys were acquired by GFC with their original MeiGray paperwork intact, then I guess that answers that issue.
Rudy.Comment
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Re: Trsent
I don't get you man. Everytime an auction house screws up, Trsent comes to the rescue. Grey Flannel charges huge dollars for jerseys and makes huge dollars in all their auctions. We're expected to do our homework, but they aren't? Even though game used jerseys ARE THEIR BUSINESS??
I can see you backing the auction houses up sometimes (they can't always be so stupid, right?) but you back them up everytime someone on here makes a legit complaint. GF's head is in the sand if they don't know about the Rangers exclusive deal with Barry. And that's unacceptable. GF plays stupid so that they can claim ignorance and still make their 20% commission. They don't care if it's real or not. They want their cut-that's all. They've lost in People's court. They sell (and have sold) many bogus jerseys, etc. Why back them up? Let us know why you always back them up? Sometimes I think people on here have done a lot of business with the GF's and the AMI's, etc., and then when they here the crap they are selling to the public, they get scared and think, "Maybe some of the stuff I've bought from them is bogus too. I better go and defend them, because I don't want my stuff to be fake too." Am I right? If not, what then? I can't figure you out. It's so simple. But I guess you're the same guy who thinks barry bonds never juiced too. See ya.Comment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
As incredible as that may sound, I was treated in a similar fashion yesterday by Richard Bond at Lelands in regards to my inquiry about a Ruth/Gehrig ball that I bought from them in their December auction. As you can imagine, I paid them several thousand dollars for this item. The ball was advertised as coming with a letter of provenance from the family that originally obtained the ball. The letter was never provided and I have been trying for three months now to get it. Yesterday, I was insulted by Bond for insisting that I should be provided with the letter in an expeditious manner. IN addition to several other things, he said that he was busy putting together their next auction (implying that he didn't have time to get this straightened out). He has since taken some action to get the matter corrected, though not without my having to suffer several insults and waiting for three months. I'm relaying this episode only to point out that my experience has been that nearly all of the major auction houses provide simply terrible customer service, even when you've made major purchases from them. I have suffered similar experiences with American Memorabilia and Grey Flannel. I won't purchase from any of them any more because their service is just too spotty. Simply put, they are not reliable. Just my two cents. --SteveOriginally posted by suave1477Comment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
I haven't dealt w/ Leland's in years ref. to an item I submitted for auction w/them through an employee who is still w/them. On a side note, I saw this same emp's name on several St. Louis Cardinals items at the "Garage Sale" they held a few mos. back. Leland's was there to offer "Appraisals" at the show. And no, he didn't stand in line like the rest of us.Comment
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Re: GFC errs on another MeiGray Rangers jersey
I would like to respond to Steve's comments about myself (Richard Bond) and the company that I work for.
Steve purchased an authentic Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig baseball in our December Auction. The Letter of Provenance from the family of the original owner wasn't sent to him right away (our error). Mr. Silverman emailed Leland's general mailbox in the middle of February wanting to return the ball because he didn't receive the letter. I emailed Steve letting him know the letter would be sent. I personally handed the letter to our Shipping Manager that day. The letter got lost in the mail; not his fault, nor ours. He emailed again, and I told him I would contact the consignor for a replacement letter (which I did). Mr. Silverman phoned me yesterday (3/21) and basically called me a liar when I told him I personally handed the Letter of Provenance to our Shipping Manager, and my conversation with the consignor. I then told Steve I would contact the consignor and give her Mr. Silverman's phone number and email address. The consignor had NO PROBLEM speaking with him and supplying another LOA. My lasts words to Steve were "If you have any other questions or problems, give me a call". He did not call. We are very conscious of customer service here and appreciate any constructive comments for improvement.
Sincerely, Richard Bond Director of Acquistions Lelands.com
PS--I NEVER insulted Mr. Silverman (even though he was pretty unruly on the phone). RichComment
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