Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

[John in KY]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Regarding a discussion earlier in this thread about foam padding on his helmet, here's a pic that proves that he did use it during the 1972 season--the last such season, in fact.


12/23/72

According to Helmet - this one they have displayed should be that helmet that Staubach is holding above. According to the HelmetHut text it was acquired from the team before training camp in 1973 - which would correspond to Staubach's switch to the Maritta/Maxpro helmets. Photo from HelmetHut:



It's interesting to note in the first photo this helmet appears drilled for a "U-bar" - you can see the holes under the blue stripes.

On a side note - I think I read somewhere that "Maxpro" was a second "brand" for Marietta applied only to those kinetic helmets - kind of like Ford owns the brand "Lincoln" - but when the company changed hands in the mid 1970s it took the Maxpro name. I'm not sure of the details, but at some point they also either merged with Kelley or at least took over producing and distributing them while Kelley himself retained ownership.

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Regarding a discussion earlier in this thread about foam padding on his helmet, here's a pic that proves that he did use it during the 1972 season--the last such season, in fact.


12/23/72

[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Whoops, meant to say "Thanks Robert"!
Guy

[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Thanks Roger; I don't think I have the Rams game so I can't check to see if the jersey was used in that game as well.

This grab shows the rip near the 2 on the front.

Does anyone remember an old, old post (maybe on the first version of this forum) where someone said they had this jersey and it was stolen from their home? Or am I imagining things?

Guy

[UGA-1]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Great work so far on this jersey guys!

What bothers me is the story. Why such a crazy story if it is genuine? Also, can the auction house sell an item that the cosigner says was stolen? If I tried to sell my jerseys as "stolen straight off the bench when no one was looking!" I might be asking for trouble. Don't cha think??
Just curious.

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

great screen grabs gwh11!

the grabs that slats7 posted, of staubach warming up before the rams game, seem to show staubach sporting a shirt that was heavily stained around the shoulder pads, that the wash didn't completely knock out - in the same area where he was muddied in the vikes game. also, there seems to be the same funky thing going on with the "t" when comparing the rams grabs to the vikes grabs, kind of sits a little higher than the rest of the letters... looks like the same shirt to me.

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Clarification: I wasn't suggesting that Roger was wearing the same jersey he wore he in Minnesota. I mean, why would they mend a torn, dirty jersey when they could just issue him a new one? If the Leland's jersey is fake (and I'm still leaning that way), then someone went to a great deal of trouble to make it look like the real thing--right down to the mended tear.

[aeneas01]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

great screen grabs gwh11!

the grabs that slats7 posted, of staubach warming up before the rams game, seem to show staubach sporting a shirt that was heavily stained around the shoulder pads, that the wash didn't completely knock out - in the same area where he was muddied in the vikes game. also, there seems to be the same funky thing going on with the "t" when comparing the rams grabs to the vikes grabs, kind of sits a little higher than the rest of the letters... looks like the same shirt to me.

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[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Look closely at how the A, B and A on the nameplate are aligned above the 1 and 2 below. Compare to the Lelands pic. Frankly, I don't see much difference here.
Guy

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Here are a couple of shots of Staubach from the "Hail Mary" game. Compare the alignment and spacing of the letters on the nameplate to the one in the Lelands photo. What do you think?
Guy

Thanks for hunting down the screengrabs. I guess I'm still bothered by the nameplate lettering. The letter alignment in the auction photo is still too tight compared to the video grab. Also, the "C" in STAUBACH looks different, although it could be due to a bad camera angle. The mystery widens.

[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Here are a couple of shots of Staubach from the "Hail Mary" game. Compare the alignment and spacing of the letters on the nameplate to the one in the Lelands photo. What do you think?
Guy

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I would think that the jerseys used in the subsequent games would be different, since the "Hail Mary" jersey would have that noticable rip/repair on the front.

Oh, of course. But the Cowboys used those wide-lettered nameplates during most of the 1970s. It makes no sense that he'd suddenly have bunched letters on his jersey for the "Hail Mary" game, and then revert to the normal style the next two games. The equipment manager wouldn't be that erratic/sloppy.

I'll see if I can post some video stills from that game. The nameplate seems to match up (in the "Hail Mary" game, I mean).

That should end the debate once and for all. I have that game on a DVD somewhere, but can't find it.

[gwh11]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I like these discussions; significant pieces, even if they've been sold years ago, should be worthy of scrutiny.

Kind of an odd story that goes w/this jersey; I think it's more useful to see if the jersey stands on it's own merits, using any available visual resources.

I would think that the jerseys used in the subsequent games would be different, since the "Hail Mary" jersey would have that noticable rip/repair on the front. I'll see if I can post some video stills from that game. The nameplate seems to match up (in the "Hail Mary" game, I mean).

Guy

[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

I'm less and less convinced that this was the Hail Mary jersey (or any jersey from the '75 season), mainly because of the nameplate. In the auction photo, the letters that spell out "STAUBACH" are tightly bunched, especially the letters AUB and UBA. Here's some screengrabs of Roger warming up a week later before the game vs. the Rams:



And here he is in Super Bowl X:



Notice how much space there is between all of the letters.

Now take a look at the auction jersey:



No comparison to the previous two examples. Also, the number "12" appears to be too high on the front of the jersey, and the sleeves a tad too short. Likewise, the numbers and nameplate appear to be navy blue, whereas the Cowboys used royal blue. Something tells me someone got ripped off.

[aeneas01]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Only thing I would add is that Staubacch's original clearshell was actually a Marietta which soon after became MaxPro. Same helmets but different names. It was similar to the way MacGregror became Kelley (via a transfer of ownership).

very true - in 1973 staubach switched from a tk suspension helmet to a kineomatic clear shell helmet, but for the first few years the kineomatic was sold under the name "marietta" and subsequently under the name "maxpro". i've read that maxpro purchased marietta in 1978 but i believe the deal went through earlier, around 1976.

Also, didn't Staubach wear the large foam snubber on his Riddell not the typical small, vinyl version?

He definitely did in 1971. He missed most of 1972 with a shoulder injury, save for the last two playoff games, so I'm not sure if he was still wearing it. The foam "snubber" was gone for good by 1973.

staubach did sport the stock small rubber snubber during his rookie year but it was gray, the white snubbers and rivet gaskets had yet to be introduced. he then switched to the wider white snubber the following year, a snubber which many cowboys used including calvin hill, mel renfro, etc. - he never did sport the stock small white snubber. here's a link that discusses the helmet before dalcowbill got staubach to sign a letter stating that it was his gamer:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10018&highlight=staubach

as far as the jersey is concerned: so what's the deal, it was swiped from the sideline and then subsequently repaired? if this is the case, i guess it's not a team repair - wouldn't this decrease the value? anyone that collects vintage football helmets has heard the stories of helmets belonging to great players being swiped - there's a well known story about a helmet and a dumpster. but these stories tend to remind me of the restaurant/bar stories in that, more than often, they seem a convenient alternative to legitimate provenance.

btw i would think if staubach removed his shirt after the game, to put on a flak jacket, he would have removed his shoulder pads at the same time. rather than battling with a jersey, it's much easier to just undo the shoulder pad straps and remove both the shirt and pads together, in one fell swoop - this affords a convenient way to tote them to the locker room.

anyway, the whole thing strikes me as quite a reach - a jersey that looks identical to what he wore the following two weeks against the rams and steelers - and during the regular season. nope, this shirt is not any of these jerseys, it's the one he wore during that very famous "hail mary" game.

here's staubach in the three postseason games of 1975 - from left to right: against the vikes (hail mary game), against the rams the following week and against the steelers in the super bowl.



here's the jersey compared to a couple of photos from the "hail mary" game:



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[slats7]

Re: Staubach Fake Finally Finds A Home....

Also, didn't Staubach wear the large foam snubber on his Riddell not the typical small, vinyl version?

He definitely did in 1971. He missed most of 1972 with a shoulder injury, save for the last two playoff games, so I'm not sure if he was still wearing it. The foam "snubber" was gone for good by 1973.