Lebron jersey - A5

[sportscentury]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Reid- Thanks for the suggestion about sending the jersey to MeiGray to see if they can photomatch it. I might just do that.

.

Reed - if you do, and it is matched, please post the pics so that we can all check it out.

[reed1216]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Reid- Thanks for the suggestion about sending the jersey to MeiGray to see if they can photomatch it. I might just do that.

.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

..what do the MEARS haters want?

joel i have 1 question for you. it's a yes/no question so it's pretty simple.

troy said that one of the criteria to garner an A5 is that mears makes "..sure the jersey was the proper size to be issued to that player". those were his words, not mine.

here is my question to you: in regards to the jersey in question, did mears "make sure the jersey was the proper size to be issued" to lebron james?

rudy.

[sportscentury]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

I do think MEARS authenticates as well as anyone in the industry, with the exception of MeiGray.

I agree. If a buyer wants/needs third-party authentication, I recommend MEARS.

As for MeiGray, they only authenticate an outside item if they have first photomatched it. Let me tell you, this exclusionary criterion quickly filters out a lot of crap!

As for your Garnett, if it shows good wear, you may want MeiGray to photomatch it. A photomatched Garnett T-Wolves jersey would be a gem. I have passed on a few Garnett T-Wolves jerseys with team letters recently because they have shown no real wear (and I think some extras may have been sold with team letters, which is, in part, why they do not command much money on the secondary market any longer) ... but it sounds like you picked up one of the jerseys he actually wore. It sounds like a great shirt.

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

I recently purchased a 1994 NY Jets preseason jersey accompanied by a MEARS LOO and worksheet. I originally owned the jersey, sold it, it somehow ended up with MEARS, then to another dealer before I re-purchased it off e-Bay. The MEARS worksheet indicates an A5 grade but the LOO indicates an A4. The grades are supposed to match up. The jersey has had the anniversary patch removed (there is evidence of such), the Champion sleeve identifiers removed from the sleeve stripe and resewn above the sleeve stripes, and the NOB is atypical of what the Jets wore in the early 90's on their non throwback jerseys. All of these are points I made in my original item description when I sold the jersey and to me are very explainable/justifiable - actually lending to the legitimacy of the piece. However, there is no mention at all of any of those very visible and important issues on either the worksheet or LOO even though the LOO indicates a photo style match. I e-mailed MEARS and they were nice enough to respond admitting more effort could/should have been put forth and that they could reissue new documentation to include the issues I brought forth - which I politely declined as I do all my own write ups. This information is not to disparage MEARS or anyone else but rather to reinforce the number one rule we always hammer on this forum - DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK and seek assistance from fellow members. Do not depend on any authenticator/auction house no matter how fancy a COA or worksheet they have. Posts like Rudy's, Robert's, Howard's, etc... go a loooong way in helping the collecting community arm themselves with information. Helping one another and sharing information is the primary purpose of the forum and I personally do not feel either constitutes smearing but rather participating in good faith and keeping in the spirit of the hobby. Happy collecting to all!

[jonincleve]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

what am i missing here?

1) all known exemplars of lebron james jerseys are size 50+2
2) there are no photos of lebron james wearing a 52+4
3) lebron 52+4 jerseys were available at retail sale

how can a 52+4 even get graded?

take care
john

[reed1216]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

I really think that the bottom line here is that an A5 grade is pretty worthless. Frankly, unless I was well aware of a jerseys characteristics to the extent that I would call myself an expert, I wouldn't make a purchase on the sole basis of MEARS' rating of below an A10 without either a vey good explanation/proof or additional team, league, or player provenence.

I do think MEARS authenticates as well as anyone in the industry, with the exception of MeiGray. While there have been a number of errors, MEARS seems to make every effort to get things right. Although their rating system probably needs some revisions, it's a helluva lot better than some auction house issuing LOAs without doing any research at all.

NBA jerseys are tough, because they're so easy to pass off as game worn. In fact, I gave up collecting NBA stuff for awhile and recently got back into it because of MeiGray's involvement. Of the five NBA jerseys I own, three are directly from MeiGray (Amare Stoudemire X-Mas, Jamal Crawford St. Patty's Day and a 2006-07 Nate Robinson road that I bought for 1/2 price, during MeiGray's Facebook sale). One is a vintage Walter Davis Suns, circa 1980, which I was able to style match with other Suns jerseys from that period. Plus, I purchased it from a forum member (Warren-BTPH), who's opinion I respect with regard to vintage NBA jerseys. The other is a Kevin Garnett Wolves jersey with team paperwork. I was even somewhat skepical of the Garnett because it was cheaper than one would expect from a future HOFer, but the jersey shows good use, particularly with piling around the lower, front portion of the jersey, where the velcro would have rubbed against the material. Plus, it has the LOA from the Wolves.

If you are buying a jersey with the thought that it was game worn without either doing your own research or buying from MeiGray, you're gambling. I know I would hate to have to look at my wall wondering whether or not one of my jerseys was real or not. I want the real deal and have no interest in buying anything that might (or might not) have been game worn.

http://community.webshots.com/user/Reed97

[aeneas01]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Robert - What is your point?

my point? simple. and i'll repeat it. again. using less words.

a) rudy, a forum member, has brought up very valid points in this thread.
b) this does not constitute a "smear".
c) rudy, a forum member, has brought up very valid points in other threads.
d) this does not constitute a "smear campaign".
e) it's clear you are unfamiliar with the meaning of the term/phrase, yet you use it freely albeit incorrectly.
f) i ask you to show me an example of rudy, a forum member, "smearing" mears. yet you don't.
g) why? because you have no idea what a "smear" is, nor a "smear campaign".
h) yet you continue to accuse a forum member of this practice.

hope that clears things up for you...

previously, troy stated that what mears means by "retail" in that context are gamers that were sold via retail channels such as a team store or steiner; he didn't mean to refer to jerseys that were solely meant for retail sale.

o.k., gotcha. "...made available for retail sale" does not mean "...made for retail sale". hence troy's comment you posted:

"Again, no store model jerseys (were) awarded the A5 grade, EVER....MEARS has never assigned a grade to a retail jersey"

so mears clearly does not award grades to retail jerseys. that's nice to know, makes sense. yet despite game photo evidence of james sporting a 50 +2, mears grades a james 52 +4 an a5? yet despite jersey joe having sold 52 +4 james jerseys to anyone willing to plunk down $600, mears graded the ebay jersey an a5? that's not nice to know, doesn't seem to make sense. perhaps the ebay jersey mears graded as an a5 actually came directly from the "nba factory"?

...

[trsent]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Rudy,

When are you going to learn to stop trying to formulate any discussion with the "unofficial MEARS certified dealer"?? He dances around clear and convincing evidence better than the gymnast that just won the trophy on DWTS!!!

It was almost this time last year when we had the discussion about MEARS VERY SUBJECTIVE scoring system.

Look, here is just one of the problems with the MEARS scoring system.

They can take an actual mid 70's Rollie Fingers and subtract two points -2 for "light use", subtract two point -2 for god only knows what size stain and subtract one -1 for a "name properly restored" for a final score of an A5. Now to me and most collectors, one would believe that jersey was worn by Rollie but it has some staining and restored name.

Now on the same hand they can take a Lebron jersey from any year that looks just like what he wears in a game, size does not really matter, no proof he ever wore the jersey and they can give it an A5. No proof Lebron wore the jersey, Bushing admits they have never authenticated a true game worn Lebron jersey so they have to true exemplar to compare, but it is close to a 50 so they give it an A5!!!

Throw the dart on the dartboard and if it hits anywhere near the bullseye it is a bullseye!!!

There is just know way both of these jerseys can have the same score and that is just one of the flaws of the subjective MEARS scoring system.

I not trying to smear MEARS period. Troy and Dave G. have admitted mistakes in the past, they have admitted they are not right all the time and Troy puts his money where his mouth is. They have a buy back program that works.

They just have a very subjective scoring system and they need to tighten it up and make it more OBJECTIVE.

Are they the best authentication house in the world??? Probably...based on the other handfull of crappy authenticators.

Are they a "world-class" authentication house? Not even close.

The problem with the A5 score is that many collectors believe that an A5 means the jersey was game worn by the athlete. So now all these collectors who have purchased an A5 Lebron believe they have an actual Lebron game used jersey when there is no proof whatsoeverKing James wore this jersey in any NBA game .

Mark

Mark - I am not a MEARS anything dealer anymore - Get over it.

You made some good points, but why bring up a term I no longer associate with? Do you really have nothing better to do than bring that up?

I have no associations with MEARS officially or unofficially anymore.

[trsent]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

once again joel: what exactly was posted by rudy in this thread that leads you to believe he has "smeared" mears, be precise please. also, if you would, please point to other examples, other posts, of rudy "smearing" mears.

you suggest that i conduct my own search of rudy's posts for proof of your allegations, that you will not search for me. the thing is joel, i don't have to search rudy's posts because i've already read them and have never encountered anything that could possibly be construed as a mears "smear campaign" on his part. so again joel, where are these examples? i'll make it easier for you - just point to one example.

btw, and i'm just spitballing here, could it be that you're taking a stab at grown up terms which you don't fully grasp? "smear campaign" for example? do you actually know what this means, what constitutes a "smear campaign"? i ask because i think knowing the actual definition of this term might be helpful in your quest for examples of rudy "smearing" mears.

...

Robert - What is your point? Rudy bashes groups he doesn't like and he kisses ass of groups he likes. He thinks everyone he doesn't like is out to commit fraud and everyone he like's is clean. Read his posts about MEARS, it is the same issues every day.

I thought you were a helmet expert - What do you have to offer about the jersey/letter in question?

If you don't like my use of what I feel is the English language, block my posts and then you won't have to read it anymore. Why is this so difficult?

[Moustache Gang]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Rudy,

When are you going to learn to stop trying to formulate any discussion with the "unofficial MEARS certified dealer"?? He dances around clear and convincing evidence better than the gymnast that just won the trophy on DWTS!!!

It was almost this time last year when we had the discussion about MEARS VERY SUBJECTIVE scoring system.

Look, here is just one of the problems with the MEARS scoring system.

They can take an actual mid 70's Rollie Fingers and subtract two points -2 for "light use", subtract two point -2 for god only knows what size stain and subtract one -1 for a "name properly restored" for a final score of an A5. Now to me and most collectors, one would believe that jersey was worn by Rollie but it has some staining and restored name.

Now on the same hand they can take a Lebron jersey from any year that looks just like what he wears in a game, size does not really matter, no proof he ever wore the jersey and they can give it an A5. No proof Lebron wore the jersey, Bushing admits they have never authenticated a true game worn Lebron jersey so they have to true exemplar to compare, but it is close to a 50 so they give it an A5!!!

Throw the dart on the dartboard and if it hits anywhere near the bullseye it is a bullseye!!!

There is just know way both of these jerseys can have the same score and that is just one of the flaws of the subjective MEARS scoring system.

I not trying to smear MEARS period. Troy and Dave G. have admitted mistakes in the past, they have admitted they are not right all the time and Troy puts his money where his mouth is. They have a buy back program that works.

They just have a very subjective scoring system and they need to tighten it up and make it more OBJECTIVE.

Are they the best authentication house in the world??? Probably...based on the other handfull of crappy authenticators.

Are they a "world-class" authentication house? Not even close.

The problem with the A5 score is that many collectors believe that an A5 means the jersey was game worn by the athlete. So now all these collectors who have purchased an A5 Lebron believe they have an actual Lebron game used jersey when there is no proof whatsoeverKing James wore this jersey in any NBA game .

Mark

[aeneas01]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Robert, you can do a search for Rudy's posts and read Rudy's campaign to "smear" MEARS when he doesn't like their opinion for an item. I am not going to do the search for you, but if you really care, it is really easy to read every post Rudy has ever made on this forum.

once again joel: what exactly was posted by rudy in this thread that leads you to believe he has "smeared" mears, be precise please. also, if you would, please point to other examples, other posts, of rudy "smearing" mears.

you suggest that i conduct my own search of rudy's posts for proof of your allegations, that you will not search for me. the thing is joel, i don't have to search rudy's posts because i've already read them and have never encountered anything that could possibly be construed as a mears "smear campaign" on his part. so again joel, where are these examples? i'll make it easier for you - just point to one example.

btw, and i'm just spitballing here, could it be that you're taking a stab at grown up terms which you don't fully grasp? "smear campaign" for example? do you actually know what this means, what constitutes a "smear campaign"? i ask because i think knowing the actual definition of this term might be helpful in your quest for examples of rudy "smearing" mears.

...

[trsent]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

the inherant issue is not whether james never wore a 52+4. (only you would expect someone to prove a negative). the issue is that mears has already stated that a 52+4 is correct yet they have no evidence whatsoever. they state they "make sure the size was issued" but they don't. do you understand this? do you understand that they get paid for this stuff and they make claims that they don't back up? you've completely glossed over all of that and instead ask me to prove james never wore a 52. could mears be right? of course. but mears isn't simply saying james might've possibly worn a 52, which i would be fine with. they're not even saying they aren't sure what size he wore. they're
asserting he DID wear a 52. yet apparently that assertion is based on nothing.

rudy.

...and you have proved nothing but continued your smear campaign without any proof.

Don't buy the jersey if you do not like it.

Your continued smear of the MEARS name, with speculation because you do not like the system is pathetic and getting old. They try hard to do what they do.

They never claimed the jersey was "game used" did they? The seller may have, but did MEARS call it "game used" to not give it an A5? If this size jerseys were ordered by The Cavs, then a A5 is correct, right?

Prove them wrong because they owe you nothing for your continued attacks on their solid work in this industry.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Rudy, so, what proof do you offer that LeBron didn't wear the size in questions and even if he didn't wear that size, what proof do you show the jersey was not worn for him?

Please, your work is generally very good, but your facts need proof to back them up. Maybe you should contact The Cavs to find out LeBron's jersey orders otherwise you are creating conflict, as usual, in your attempt to smear the MEARS name with just speculation and no concrete proof.

the inherant issue is not whether james never wore a 52+4. (only you would expect someone to prove a negative). the issue is that mears has already stated that a 52+4 is correct yet they have no evidence whatsoever. they state they "make sure the size was issued" but they don't. do you understand this? do you understand that they get paid for this stuff and they make claims that they don't back up? you've completely glossed over all of that and instead ask me to prove james never wore a 52. could mears be right? of course. but mears isn't simply saying james might've possibly worn a 52, which i would be fine with. they're not even saying they aren't sure what size he wore. they're
asserting he DID wear a 52. yet apparently that assertion is based on nothing.

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: Lebron jersey - A5

Rudy, so, what proof do you offer that LeBron didn't wear the size in questions and even if he didn't wear that size, what proof do you show the jersey was not worn for him?

Please, your work is generally very good, but your facts need proof to back them up. Maybe you should contact The Cavs to find out LeBron's jersey orders otherwise you are creating conflict, as usual, in your attempt to smear the MEARS name with just speculation and no concrete proof.