Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jersey

[Phil316]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

I for one appreciate Joel's efforts in getting to the bottom of this. Something doesn't quite add up.

I also agree.

[slam]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

I for one appreciate Joel's efforts in getting to the bottom of this. Something doesn't quite add up.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

Joel,

I have been watching the thread and have not made a post here previously because I did not think any rules were violated and I thought it right to let the people involved post to clarify their involvement in the situation. However, I believe the last post you have made has gone over the line. Specifically, the forum rules state:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

Your post stated, "this jersey is an example of Dan charging extra to authenticate an item that didn't come from his inside source and him trying to say it is an isolated case is very scary and puts doubt on any previous letters he has written." In addition, you state, "He claims he has multiple sources for Kobe autographs, but he has a line of them that have failed authentication from the most trusted autograph authenticators in the business which leads us to believe Dan's source for Kobe autographs may be of the clubhouse variety of Kobe autographs."

If I understand correctly, Dan has asserted:

1) The amount he charged was for the authentication and the autograph. He has also stated that he will be refunding the authentication fee because he made a mistake on the authentication. Please let me know if I am reading his post incorrectly. If not, please substantiate your claim that he charged more for the authentication and how that puts doubt into any previous letters he has written; and

2) Dan has claimed his sources have access to Kobe Bryant to get the autographs. I honestly have no idea whether or not that is true. However, before you can implicitly state these autographs are of the "clubhouse variety," please provide some statement from the autograph experts you refer to in making that claim. If that is truly the case, I am sure the authenticators will provide you with some form of statement that the autographs are of the clubhouse variety.

Please note I have no dog in this race but you have asked someone to come on here and answer your questions which I believe he did. If you are going to make any further accusations that imply impropriety please provide the necessary proof other than your opinions that it "leads you to believe...'

Thank you in advance for your compliance with the forum rules.

-Chris

[plinvestments]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

He already made the statement that this was the beginning of him authentication 3rd party items which is false as he has written letter for auction houses for years for items they send in to him - Always with the same wording that it came from a mysterious team source.

How do you know this? Which auction houses have sent items to him? How long have these auction houses used Dan? You've made an accusation. Where is your proof?

[trsent]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

Mr. Alpert,

I am new to the forum but not new to the hobby. I have read all of your threads regarding this matter and I appreciate all of the work that you have put into researching game used material, in particular this Kobe jersey. An item of this magnitude need to be traced as much as possible in order to verify its authenticity.

I have had many interactions/transactions with DC Sports and Dan. I also have the luxury of being a nearby resident and am able to conduct transactions with him in person. I can say for 1000% fact that ALL of DC items are legitimate. With that said I think you brought to light something that needs to be altered with Dan's COA's. If this is an item that comes directly from Dan (i.e. "his sources" then he should continue with the Certificate that he issues that states as such.

If, as in the instance of this Kobe jersey, this is an item that is being sent in for Dan to authenticate, his letters should read something to the effect that "in our opinion, we believe that this item is consistent with Lakers authentic game worn material from 20xx-20xx" or something to the effect. I agree with your comments regarding the letter about this Kobe jersey and the wording on the certificate.

As for the jersey being certified as game used, all I can offer to the board is that I have been in the presence of Dan when he has been sent jersey's to authentic from Wilt Chamberlain to Magic Johnson to Kobe Bryant. Even players like Mike Smreck to Mike Penberthy to Robert Sacre and Dan REJECTS items as much as he certifies them. In fact, Dan has tried to post signs or makers to look for on this board in order to help educate the collector on what to look for in order not to get duped. However, as in all ciricles of life, sometimes even the best get one pulled over on them. Case in point, Upper Deck has passed MANY, certified "Cut" signatures on their various cards through the years that did not pass secondary authenication services (i.e. PSA/DNA; JSA; etc.). It happens!! Dan didn't intentionally pass this jersey, all signs, in his estimation, pointed to a real, gamer. After you pointed out the timeline of it (thankfully) he posted a retraction and "decertified" the jersey.

My final comment is to you Mr. Alpert. Again, thank you for your time and diligence in bringing this, and others to light. I appreciate you upholding the integrity of the legitimate item. However, you have now turned this into a "which hunt" against Dan and DC Sports. I don't appreciate the turn this commentary has taken as Dan has been an long standing, certified, member of this forum and the foremost authority on Lakers gear. He's done nothing to help the buyer, colllector and your comments seem like someone who is rather jealous at this point. You caught an error, brought it to light and everyone has learned from it and hopefully corrections will be made to improve the process going forward. STOP WHILE YOU'RE AHEAD AND END THIS!!! DC has been able to provide a wealth of amazing items and knowledge to all of us - let's let him get back to what he does best!!

Wow - Everyone who has bought from Dan has come to his defense today. Second fairly new person to use the term "Witch Hunt" today.

Dan has ignored the questions I have asked him, except he has said that it is not Mark or Ryan who are his amazing sources.

I will continue with this project, as this jersey is an example of Dan charging extra to authenticate an item that didn't come from his inside source and him trying to say it is an isolated case is very scary and puts doubt on any previous letters he has written.

He claims he has multiple sources for Kobe autographs, but he has a line of them that have failed authentication from the most trusted autograph authenticators in the business which leads us to believe Dan's source for Kobe autographs may be of the clubhouse variety of Kobe autographs.

Since Dan has sources within the Los Angeles Lakers organization that he tells us about, maybe it's time for someone to contact The Los Angeles Lakers to confirm that he is getting items right from under the team's nose and if they approve of this.

It is always those who have an inventory from an expert or 3rd party authenticator who wish to defend that person for having sources and being the best but I promise you, one day my concerns will be proven correct and I'll stand behind that statement as my time in this hobby doesn't lead me to make such a stink over something without more than just one man's word to have others defend himself instead of him answering the tough questions.

If I'm wrong - Dan should answer the tough questions about the one jersey in question. Ignoring the numerous questions leads us to doubt. He already made the statement that this was the beginning of him authentication 3rd party items which is false as he has written letter for auction houses for years for items they send in to him - Always with the same wording that it came from a mysterious team source.

[JRock75]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

Mr. Alpert,

I am new to the forum but not new to the hobby. I have read all of your threads regarding this matter and I appreciate all of the work that you have put into researching game used material, in particular this Kobe jersey. An item of this magnitude need to be traced as much as possible in order to verify its authenticity.

I have had many interactions/transactions with DC Sports and Dan. I also have the luxury of being a nearby resident and am able to conduct transactions with him in person. I can say for 1000% fact that ALL of DC items are legitimate. With that said I think you brought to light something that needs to be altered with Dan's COA's. If this is an item that comes directly from Dan (i.e. "his sources" then he should continue with the Certificate that he issues that states as such.

If, as in the instance of this Kobe jersey, this is an item that is being sent in for Dan to authenticate, his letters should read something to the effect that "in our opinion, we believe that this item is consistent with Lakers authentic game worn material from 20xx-20xx" or something to the effect. I agree with your comments regarding the letter about this Kobe jersey and the wording on the certificate.

As for the jersey being certified as game used, all I can offer to the board is that I have been in the presence of Dan when he has been sent jersey's to authentic from Wilt Chamberlain to Magic Johnson to Kobe Bryant. Even players like Mike Smreck to Mike Penberthy to Robert Sacre and Dan REJECTS items as much as he certifies them. In fact, Dan has tried to post signs or makers to look for on this board in order to help educate the collector on what to look for in order not to get duped. However, as in all ciricles of life, sometimes even the best get one pulled over on them. Case in point, Upper Deck has passed MANY, certified "Cut" signatures on their various cards through the years that did not pass secondary authenication services (i.e. PSA/DNA; JSA; etc.). It happens!! Dan didn't intentionally pass this jersey, all signs, in his estimation, pointed to a real, gamer. After you pointed out the timeline of it (thankfully) he posted a retraction and "decertified" the jersey.

My final comment is to you Mr. Alpert. Again, thank you for your time and diligence in bringing this, and others to light. I appreciate you upholding the integrity of the legitimate item. However, you have now turned this into a "which hunt" against Dan and DC Sports. I don't appreciate the turn this commentary has taken as Dan has been an long standing, certified, member of this forum and the foremost authority on Lakers gear. He's done nothing to help the buyer, colllector and your comments seem like someone who is rather jealous at this point. You caught an error, brought it to light and everyone has learned from it and hopefully corrections will be made to improve the process going forward. STOP WHILE YOU'RE AHEAD AND END THIS!!! DC has been able to provide a wealth of amazing items and knowledge to all of us - let's let him get back to what he does best!!

[jmeekins33]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

You respectfully disagree about what? Yourespectfully disagree about where I may or may not buy a jersey from?

No, I do not disagree with your hypothetical choice not to buy from DC Sports. I would think that most people would be able to understand the point I was trying to make, but let me clarify it for you.

While some people here may not want to do business with DC, I don't have any hesitation in doing so. I've had nothing but good experiences with them in the past and I have seen no evidence that this rookie jersey situation is anything more than a mistake.

The implication with a post like yours is that because of this situation DC Sports is not a trustworthy source for game worn Laker items. While you have every right to that opinion, I don't share it. If you have any further concerns related my post, please send me a pm so that the other members don't have any more of their time wasted.

[sportsnbikes]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

I respectfully disagree.

I've done business with DC Sports before and I've found Dan to be a man with a lot of integrity. A mistake was made but I don't think it goes any deeper than that.

You respectfully disagree about what? You respectfully disagree about where I may or may not buy a jersey from?

[mickeymbz]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

DC,, I can speak that I feel 100% confidence of the game used stuff you have provided for me over 20 years,, many photomatched.. I'm sure many of your customers aren't even followers of this sight... and even if they are they know the knowledge and insight you have and the stuff you get.. nobody can get. I would say 80%. probably higher, game used lakers stuff come from you and you only...over the past 2 decades. Don't worry about the "gotchas" cuz...BYT the "mistake happens" excuse will only get you a pass from them if its only from a specific company.... READ past posts as proof.

[DConLA]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

I just want to reiterate that I made a mistake and I will be refunding Ryan the authentication fee. The fee was a combination for the signature and the letter.

The autograph fee is based on the fact that it is very hard to obtain Kobe signatures and we use multiple sources and the price varies depending upon which source is available at that time. I also want to point out that just because PSA did not authenticate the signature does not mean that it is a counterfeit.

At the time I did the letter for Ryan I used a boiler plate letter and going forward we will make sure to be clearer on the source of any Lakers items that we are asked to authenticate.



DAN 323.257.4898 dceniceros248@yahoo.com

[trsent]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

Can someone tell me what LEAK OUT means? Does that mean stolen?

Someone mentioned a ball boy to me. Maybe someone should call The Los Angeles Lakers for a statement?

[slam]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

Here's what I know and what I can share. Dan does in fact have a locker room source for Lakers items and a lot of items do leak out.

Can someone tell me what LEAK OUT means? Does that mean stolen?

[jmeekins33]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

I'm not a new member. I've been here for years. I got locked out of my old account (JasonM33) a while ago and I was forced to open a new one. Furthermore, nobody asked me to defend them.

We have people in this thread that are not involved piling on and making disparaging comments. I thought it was only fair that someone who has actually done business with DC provide another viewpoint.

[Phil316]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

Hmm I find it odd all these new members coming out of the wood work to defend a guy who has been caught red handed. Dan should be posting himself not having his buddies defend him.

[plinvestments]

Re: Altered Kobe Bryant Pro-Cut Jersey Being Advertised on eBay with D. C. Sports LOA as Game Used Rookie Jers

I'm sure Dan has had some amazing authentic items over the years, but after a while when you keep pumping so much stuff into the marketplace with letter that state they all come from a source with access inside a professional sports team and you write letters for 3rd parties stating their items came from this source, it raises questions that Dan should answer instead of going into a shell.

I am impartial - I asked tough questions and Dan has ignored them for the most part but he has three new friends posting defending him today which is fine. All sides should share about their experiences.

I'd really like an explanation about the counterfeit Kobe autograph that was added to Ryan's jersey also - Witch hunt? Dan admits he charged for the autograph - so why isn't it authentic?

Finally, you have eight Kobe jerseys from Dan with his letters and photomatches? Can you post them all to share with us? It is amazing that one collector has eight jerseys himself so I understand why you would defend the authenticator when his practice is questioned instead of looking at the whole big picture that I am trying to get answers for.

The history of discussions on Game Used Universe show when an authenticator or distributor is questioned the first thing everyone does is defend their own inventory piece by piece. This is fine but it doesn't hide the fact that there is questionable activities take have taken place here.

Here's what I know and what I can share. Dan does in fact have a locker room source for Lakers items and a lot of items do leak out. If he can get 4 or 5 jerseys each year, that's almost 50 in the marketplace. The jerseys you see at auction could very well all have originated from Dan. For you to assume or suggest that he is authenticating for auction houses and attaching a factually inaccurate letter is unfair. He already answered that question for you - he has only started authentication recently. He was using the same letter for authentication as the one he used for items he sold. It came back to bite him and he is changing the letter format going forward.

In terms of the autograph, I don't know if the one in question is is real or not but I do know that PSA is overly cautious when it comes to Kobe autos as they are with Jordan autos. I remember a previous discussion where Dan mentioned an ongoing spat with PSA over a whole bunch of Kobe autos that they wouldn't authenticate. Remember that PSA never says that an auto is fake (sometimes I wish they would), only that it can't be authenticated.