New User - Steiner Complication

[marino13]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Will throw in my two cents since I deal a lot of Steiner send-ins.

1. I always get the hologram affixed to the item (at exact spot requested).

2. I do get "generic" cert here and there, but when I requested for specific -- that is what I get.

3. As for barcoded cert -- those were done mostly for in-store or online purpose only. Those are not for send-ins.


Now back to the OP's scenario --- which I find VERY strange to say the least.

1. A game used WS baseball (most likely to be '09 or earlier) - it would have at least TWO holograms attached already -- One from MLB and ONE from Steiner. It would also have a letter with matching hologram.

1A. Unless the ball is from the opponents - then it would not have the additional Steiner hologram and letter.

2. If you send in that particular WS game used ball to have Jeter signs it - it will get a hologram affixed to it unless there is one already there -- then they will just issued a plastic cert with it.

There is absolutely no reason for them to MISS or not placing the hologram right after it was signed by Jeter.


Unless the ball was part of the consignment auction on steiner behalf -- then that is another mess on it owns.

[sctizzle]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

The ball wouldn't get the Steiner/NYY hologram though as mlb holograms all and sell themselves--they did not sell any direct through their partnership. So it would be correct not to have the 2 game used holograms.

[Wrigley2010]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Steiner does issue holograms and cards for their send in items. You get a generic card back because they will authenticate the signature only, not the item (who knows if you are sending in a knockoff authentic jersey) so there will be nothing about the item exept "Derek Jeter Autograph" or "Derek Jeter Flat Autograph" or something along those lines.

If anyone has any questions for them, instead of everyone just adding more speculation, why not just reach out and ask.

No one here is questioning the generic cert. What is being questioned is a generic cert being issued for an autograph without a hologram to tie it to the item. Also, no one here is questioning the validity of the GU ball as it has an MLB holo. I'm sure every senior member on the forums here is aware Steiner doesn't authenticate GU items.

I see very little speculation here but I do see a lot of concerned collectors as there should be. As you can see the OP did reach out and "ask." This is why we are here questioning a process or lack there of.

Like I said before, this may be more of an auction house issue and less of a Steiner issue. Seems like the consensus here is that Steiner issues holograms with send in items. So who is the auction house that let a Steiner cert pass for authentication of an item without the Steiner holo?

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Based on what I'm reading here, it appears the OP won an authentic WS game used ball for sure.

The signature, whatever it is, was apparently NOT signed in the presence of Steiner's representatives because a hologram was not affixed to the ball. That brings up three more possibilities.

Either the ball was signed and Steiner's rep simply goofed up the process by letting the ball slip out of their possession without a hologram affixed, or the authentic ball was signed by Jeter somewhere else and the seller chose to use a Steiner signature card from one of his Jeter signed items (maybe an inexpensive photo or batting glove or something of low value) and supplied the generic Steiner signature card with the W.S. signed ball in the hopes it would seriously jack up the value, especially in light of recent hammer prices Jete's stuff is going for.

The last possibility is the signature is bogus and the cert was supplied as a means to get rid of a forgery. I don't believe that is the case, but it is very much a possibility because of the flawed system of issuing generic signature cards. These cards can be used for other purposes, like this last possibility mentioned, because there is no direct "tie" to the item signed.

It's a flawed system everyone in the hobby simply needs to refuse to accept. Otherwise, you've got a situation like jlabadie88 has here. Not good.

[jlabadie88]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

I appreciate everyone's discussing this. The images of the item are attached. The item is from lot #342 of the most recent Goldin Auctions. Here's the link:

http://www.goldinauctions.com/2009_Derek_Jeter_Signed_Game_Used_World_Series_Bas-LOT12366.aspx

This is what I have so far. Through email communication, a Steiner representative has stated to me that based on a picture of the certificate and a look at lot #342 of Goldin Auctions, they claim this to be legitimate. Direct from the email, they also said:

"What likely happened is that the original owner of the ball got this baseball from MLB and then sent it to us to get Derek to sign it.
We don’t usually put a Steiner sticker on items for a send-in like that and we just give the COA to confirm we were there when Derek signed it."

I find this disconcerting, as I was under the impression they affixed the hologram to any and all items. But technically in this situation, I feel I can argue that this email correspondence has given me Steiner provenance. At the risk of sounding naïve, here are my thoughts. The ball has MLB authentication attesting to WS game use. While forgery is certainly a possibility, it seems unlikely to me. If the original owner purchased this ball from MLB auctions, they likely paid a decent amount for it and wouldn't gain a significant amount by applying a forged Jeter signature (2014 WS balls on MLB auctions are selling for over $1,000). Two, a Steiner hologram on the ball doesn't do much good now anyway, given the generic certificate.

Thoughts?

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

After seeing the ball, it's appears to be good.

It's an MLB authenticated game used World Series ball for sure. It was pitched by Philadelphia's Cliff Lee to Alex Rodriguez who fouled it back to the backstop in the 9th inning (Oct 28, 2009). A quick review shows this was game 1.

The signature looks good too. Yeah, it's likely all good. The signature card authenticates the signature on the ball and there is no reason to think anything is off here.

Today. With jlabadie88 sharing this with us.

But what about when the day comes he decides to sell it? How many potential buyers will "pull out" because there is no way of verifying THAT card goes with THAT ball?

Alone and in the current form these cards are offered, they represent a poor form of "authentication" for send-in signatures. There should be a photo taken of the item printed on the COA, or a hologram affixed to the ball that corresponds to a COA with a matching printed (or hologramed) code.

Short of that, these signature verification "cards" can end up authenticating all kinds of Derek Jeter signatures that aren't, if they get into the wrong hands.

Why accept a seriously flawed system we collectors don't want, one that compromises the value of the items we pay our hard-earned money for?

Because of this thread, if I ever find myself in the need of using Steiner for obtaining a signature, I will ask them beforehand to place a hologram on the item (in the place of my choice) to verify the signature, which they will have to agree to, or the business won't happen. A generic signature card doesn't work for me.

Chris

[cliffjmp33]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Glad Steiner followed up. Ken has been good at responding on here too, but not sure if you reached out to him or any other Goldin Auction reps.

Nice addition though either way!

[BCowan]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

I appreciate everyone's discussing this. The images of the item are attached. The item is from lot #342 of the most recent Goldin Auctions. Here's the link:

http://www.goldinauctions.com/2009_Derek_Jeter_Signed_Game_Used_World_Series_Bas-LOT12366.aspx

This is what I have so far. Through email communication, a Steiner representative has stated to me that based on a picture of the certificate and a look at lot #342 of Goldin Auctions, they claim this to be legitimate. Direct from the email, they also said:

"What likely happened is that the original owner of the ball got this baseball from MLB and then sent it to us to get Derek to sign it.
We don’t usually put a Steiner sticker on items for a send-in like that and we just give the COA to confirm we were there when Derek signed it."

I find this disconcerting, as I was under the impression they affixed the hologram to any and all items. But technically in this situation, I feel I can argue that this email correspondence has given me Steiner provenance. At the risk of sounding naïve, here are my thoughts. The ball has MLB authentication attesting to WS game use. While forgery is certainly a possibility, it seems unlikely to me. If the original owner purchased this ball from MLB auctions, they likely paid a decent amount for it and wouldn't gain a significant amount by applying a forged Jeter signature (2014 WS balls on MLB auctions are selling for over $1,000). Two, a Steiner hologram on the ball doesn't do much good now anyway, given the generic certificate.

Thoughts?

jlabadie88 please contact me directly at bcowan@steinersports.com or 914-307-1004. I'd like to discuss who at Steiner Sports gave you this information as it is incorrect. Without calling the rep out in an online forum I will say that any send in item should also get a Steiner Sports hologram in addition to the COA.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

jlabadie88 please contact me directly at bcowan@steinersports.com or 914-307-1004. I'd like to discuss who at Steiner Sports gave you this information as it is incorrect. Without calling the rep out in an online forum I will say that any send in item should also get a Steiner Sports hologram in addition to the COA.

What a surprise.

NOT. See what a POOR authentication system leads to?

At least jlabadie88's product will be addressed, and that's commendable on Steiner's part.

Stay tuned. I'm going for some popcorn.........

[marino13]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

1. I would have personally requested for a "specific" cert instead of generic. With all the money I am spending for Jeter's autograph along with the pricey item - I better get what I am paying for.


2. Whoever the rep replied with the info -- that was JUST plain wrong and incorrect. I would doubt it that it is someone experienced. Must be one of the newbies. Either way, it is time to re-train them.



Now that we got to the bottom of this situation - I am glad everything will be work out in the end.



As for trying (yes I did say trying) to resell this signed gamer --- it will take someone who doesnt care to investigate further.


Why do I say this? Simple. Why would anyone wants Jeter to sign something that has nothing to do with him. Maybe I am wrong here, but who would pay premium for a "Mets gamer signed by Jeter"?


I guess it is a newbie's mistake or just doesnt care or just someone who did it on impulse --- the only two persons who should have signed the baseball would be Cliff Lee or Alex Rodriguez. But then again, with both mentioned players are not so much in good term with "collectible value" --- the ball might have worth more if it was unsigned instead.


Either way, I am hoping that you will keep this in your collection and pass it down to your family.

[jlabadie88]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

I did speak again with Steiner and they were very quick and eager to rectify the situation. And yes, it was a new person who originally gave me that information. I do find it commendable that they jumped in.

Regarding what [B]marino13[B] is saying about Jeter signing the ball as opposed to Lee or Rodriguez, I did consider that when deciding what I would be interested in. I felt in this particular case, as it represents Jeter's final championship, it was more appropriate. If it had been a home run ball by another player, or maybe even a hit, I wouldn't have been interested. But I figured something as trivial as a foul ball wouldn't devalue it or make it less significant. Similar perhaps to having Ripken sign an '83 WS ball (granted, that was his only WS).

Also, given the other options at the time in this price range, there were 2014 Opening Day balls, All-Star baseballs, and baseballs in regular-season games that were H's for Jeter. My personal preference in this case was the WS ball, as I wanted more significance than a regular-season game in this instance, even if it were Jeter specific. I do intend to keep my collection.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Now that we got to the bottom of this situation - I am glad everything will be work out in the end.

Will it? I don't see that we've gotten to the end of anything.

If what the Steiner associate BCowan says is true, that every send-in item for signature is to receive a hologram, then what happened with jlabadie88's ball that he bought...that doesn't have one...that was put out there as being signed in front of Steiner Sports?

The ball could have been signed by Jeter (or someone else ) and just had the Steiner autograph card thrown in to give that added UMPTH to get a higher hammer total in the auction.

Void of that hologram, the ball is a PHAT question mark, except for it's use in game one of the 2009 World Series. And this is why "generic" autograph cards or COA's issued with an item should be shunned by collectors altogether. To avoid these unacceptable circumstances.

What I'm picking up from this comment by BCowan is, if it's true that Steiner does affix a hologram to ever item sent in for signature, then at least their company policy is sound.

Implementing it? Sounds like that's still a work in progress.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

I did speak again with Steiner and they were very quick and eager to rectify the situation. And yes, it was a new person who originally gave me that information. I do find it commendable that they jumped in.

Regarding what [B]marino13[B] is saying about Jeter signing the ball as opposed to Lee or Rodriguez, I did consider that when deciding what I would be interested in. I felt in this particular case, as it represents Jeter's final championship, it was more appropriate. If it had been a home run ball by another player, or maybe even a hit, I wouldn't have been interested. But I figured something as trivial as a foul ball wouldn't devalue it or make it less significant. Similar perhaps to having Ripken sign an '83 WS ball (granted, that was his only WS).

Also, given the other options at the time in this price range, there were 2014 Opening Day balls, All-Star baseballs, and baseballs in regular-season games that were H's for Jeter. My personal preference in this case was the WS ball, as I wanted more significance than a regular-season game in this instance, even if it were Jeter specific. I do intend to keep my collection.

I totally agree with your reasoning on going through with having Jeter sign the W.S. ball. Being a foul ball which was ultimately hologramed by MLB created the perfect opportunity to have a 2009 World Series ball signed by Jeter. Makes total sense. Would it have been better to have a foul ball by Jeter? Sure, but if there aren't any, this is the next best thing. It is 100% tied to Jeter's last World Series championship by use, so it's all good.

In regards to the Steiner help, what are they going to do? Ask you to send the ball in so they can add a hologram to it?

Since it's after the fact, they're now acting as a third party authenticator. Who's to say that ball was signed in front of them?? They can't. There's no hologram affixed to the ball. They're simply accepting the fact, as Goldin did in selling it as such, and you did as buying it, that Jeter did in fact sign it in front of a Steiner rep because of the card accompanying it.

If they (Steiner) really want to make it right, have them obtain a signed letter from Jeter, who they deal with, stating that he signed the ball, with his wet-ink signature on it. Then, I'd say you got yourself a keeper.

Good luck.

Chris

[jojac]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Either way its a nice item but from whats in the description I feel they should have had ARod sign it......just my opinion.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: New User - Steiner Complication

Either way its a nice item but from whats in the description I feel they should have had ARod sign it......just my opinion.

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