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  • slats7
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Another good photo of Kelly in 1986, in case anyone needs it.

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  • ivo610
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Originally posted by spartanservitto
    Im just curious do does the buyer RKGIBSON still have that Ray Lewis jersey, Im wondering if he has kept it or sold. Its one of the most amazing jerseys I have ever seen.

    -Tony
    He sold it.

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  • spartanservitto
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Im just curious do does the buyer RKGIBSON still have that Ray Lewis jersey, Im wondering if he has kept it or sold. Its one of the most amazing jerseys I have ever seen.

    -Tony

    Leave a comment:


  • tboshearz
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Originally posted by RKGIBSON
    In the last AMI auction I won 3 jerseys, Ray Lewis, Mike Rozier and Dameyune Craig. Of those the Ray Lewis is a great piece that really make my collection better. I was able to inspect the jersey and photo match it before the auction. It was probably the easiest jersey I have ever photo matched. It was definately use in at least 5 games and I believe 6. He was wearing a different jersey vs the Bronco's 10/26/03. I cannot definately say vs the Jags 11/2/03 but it is not he same as the Bronco jersey. The following games he has this jersey on: 11/16 vs Dolphins, 11-23 vs Seahawks, 11/30 vs 49ers, 12/7 vs Bengals and 1/3/04 vs Titans. The marks on the shoulder occured in the Seahawk game and are easy to see. The hole in the LH sleeve occured in the Titans game.

    The Rozier was photo matched to the 49er game 10/14/90 and the Bucs 12/2/90. I collect Heisman winners.

    The Craig has a Panther letter was photo matched easy too, by two repairs on the LH chest, Jags 8/4/00 and Ravens 8/18/00 preseason. This is not a significate jersey but, I met Craig a Auburn while taking my son to football camp. I'm a big Aubun fan and he was a good kid, and most of all I like it.

    Also earlier in the month I won the Jim Kelly with the team letter on Ebay. I really like this jersey also. I have not been able to photo match this jersey. I have only found one picture on Getty and one on is web site of his rookie season. Still looking.

    I also got the 2 Florida jerseys, Fred Taylor and Mike Peterson from Grey Flannel. I matched the Taylor to the Arkansas game 10/4/97. It had shoulder repairs then. These jersey came from Greg Goslin, Eq. manager.
    Anyone wants picture of these jerseys let me know.

    Has anyone else recently got any football items?

    Roger
    Just wanted to add that i'm lovin the Ray Lewis jersey... actually looking for one similar myself currently. Seeing this one gives me even more motivation to look harder!

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  • G1X
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Gentleman,

    I've tried to avoid commenting in this discussion as I prefer not entering into a debate about a jersey without examining it in person and when it is not any of my business. However, at this point, I feel obligated to comment in an attempt to be helpful on this particular jersey and to clarify a couple of issues brought up in this thread.

    Rudy beat me to the punch regarding The Sporting News cover photo not appearing to match Mr. Gibson's Jim Kelly jersey with regard to the font style of the #1 and the difference in the neckline. I agree 100% with Rudy's assessment. Also, I can't tell from the magazine cover photo, but are those "handwarmer" pockets or just a shadow? (Can someone who has the actual magazine please comment.)

    One clarification with regards to Rudy's comments about the Jim Haslett card. It is a 1986 card, so the photo is from 1985 or earlier, not 1986. Also keep in mind that Haslett's last season in Buffalo was 1985.

    I agree in general with Marcus, but with regards to the 1987 season, please note that the Bills would "mix-and-match" in that some players can be seen wearing the Sand Knit fishnets (port hole mesh) while others wore the normal-style mesh Champion jerseys in the same game. See Getty image #73428283 from the Bills-Eagles game of 12/27/87 where Kelly is in a Sand Knit jersey while the lineman pictured is wearing a Champion jersey (difference in style of the number font on Champion jerseys of that era are quite distinctive from other manufacturers). Making things even more interesting, check out the numerous Bills-Raiders game photos from three weeks earlier where Kelly is in a Champion and most of the other players are in the fishnet Sand Knit jerseys!

    Back to Mr. Gibson's Jim Kelly jersey. The combination of the following four issues seems unique and somewhat odd for a circa 1986 Sand Knit Bills jersey:
    1. Number font appears too thin.
    2. Font style does not appear to be exactly correct.
    3. Rounded neck is unusual for Bills jerseys of that era.
    4. Sand Knit tagging seems to be post-1986. When MacGregor took over Sand Knit in 1984, the tagging slowly evolved over the next several years. MacGregor wording was added to the bottom tag in small print by the mid-1980s and was later added to the top tag as well. By 1989, they went to the "crown" design on the bottom tag. Of the exemplars in my collection, I do not have a jersey prior to 1987 that has the MacGregor wording on both tags (such as the style on Mr. Gibson's jersey). Not to say that it wasn't included on both tags by 1986 - and collectors out there might have such jerseys - but I would need evidence to alleviate that concern if it were my jersey.

    As we all know, there are exceptions to the rule with a prime example being John Elway wearing a Champion at one point in the mid-1980s while the rest of the Broncos sported Russell jerseys. However, the difference is that the Elway Champion jersey can be verified by photographic evidence. No one has presented a photograph or video reference to substantiate the Bills wearing the unusal style of Mr. Gibson's Jim Kelly jersey.

    This is all just food for thought in an attempt to be helpful in pointing out some peculiarities about Mr. Gibson's Jim Kelly jersey and the Bills jerseys in general during this era, and to clarify several side issues brought up in this thread. I am by no means stating an opinion on this jersey one way or the other (other to say that it is unusual) nor am I questioning anyone's integrity, opinions, knowledge, etc., etc., etc. . .

    Mark Hayne
    Gridiron Exchange

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  • kingjammy24
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    re: the haslett card
    it doesn't have the "pjm" sticker above the facemask. either haslett chose not to wear the memorial or the photo is not from 1986. mcgroeder passed away in february of 1986 so it stands to reason that the memorial was worn from the start of the season.

    i think it seems that if it's a blue facemask and has a "pjm" sticker then the photo is from 1986 only. 1985 wouldn't have the "pjm" sticker and 1987 wouldn't have a blue facemask.

    there a couple of other things i noticed.

    1) the neckline. roger, your kelly has a perfectly circular neck whereas game photos that we know are from 1986 seem to show a definite v-neck.

    2) one of the keys, as josports mentioned, is the top or "head" of the "1". photos show a 1 with a blunt, wide top and short nose. roger, your jersey has a narrow-top "1" with a long nose. you indicate that you feel that the photo on the 1987 Pro Football Yearbook is like yours but if you compare the top of the "1"s, you can clearly see that the one in the photo is the same blunt-top/short-nose as seen in other photos.



    i wonder if we're getting into the mess of trying to prove that something wasn't worn when it should be the opposite. roger, in light of everything,
    what was it that caused you to initially view the jersey favorably? was there any photo evidence to support the number fonts or neckline?

    rudy.

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  • kingjammy24
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    this may help in dating the photos:

    "In 1986, the Bills added the initials “PJM” to the front of their helmets above the facemask in memory of long-time team executive Patrick McGroeder, who passed away in February of that year."

    the first 2 photos that marcus posted show kelly wearing a helmet, with blue facemask, and "pjm" sticker above the facemask. hence, they necessarily must be from 1986.

    rudy.

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  • indyred
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Another good thing to check would be the Sports Illustrated Bills team video from 1987 (it would cover the 1986 season) they put one out for each team back in mid 80's to mid 90's. I've seen a few other teams and they show highlights from almost every game that season and recap the season. Usually can find them on video searches for teams on ebay for a few bucks.

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  • mchmaj
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Originally posted by RKGIBSON
    I believe the photo of Kelly on the 87 Pro Fooball Year Book, posted by Chris, is like the font on my jersey. I also like the 8/19/86 picture posted by Eric. I do agree that matching the font style does not have to be on Kelly only. Thanks for the effort, it is appreciated.

    Roger
    u are saying the photo on the 87 pro football year book is like the font on ur jersey ?? can u read ?? did u see the linemen next to kelly the 2s does NOT MATCH UR kelly , sorry to say this , its ok to make mistake sometime.
    now everyone is saying we should not focus on kelly to find the numbers match. well i only can find kelly wearing this style big block 12s in 1986 beacuse in 1987 the bills worn different numbers font as they worn champion style numbers. And in 1985 kelly was playing for houston USFL team ...
    marcus

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  • Eric
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Dumb question-

    How do we know that letter from the Bills goes with that jersey?

    Perhaps it's a cynical view but:

    Is it possible that the letter went with a jersey that was described in the letter- a Kelly rookie, but someone has since put it with a jersey with an unusual font?
    I realize that would hurt the provenance of the first jersey in my example, but it would help a jersey with an unusual font.

    Or, is it possible that a charity jersey from the team is not exactly what they thought it is and that it's an honest mistake? Teams don't always know the things that game used collectors would. Any idea when this was auctioned off? Seems like it was a long time ago because there's no website address on the letter.
    Eric
    Just my opinion, but i don't feel that we have quite seem a photo style match for a Buffalo Bills player on a "1" or a "2" on the front of back.

    Eric

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  • RKGIBSON
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    I believe the photo of Kelly on the 87 Pro Fooball Year Book, posted by Chris, is like the font on my jersey. I also like the 8/19/86 picture posted by Eric. I do agree that matching the font style does not have to be on Kelly only. Thanks for the effort, it is appreciated.

    Roger

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  • josports
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Everyone, I think you are looking at the width of the numbers when you should look at the style of the numbers. The style of the numbers are completely different than the pictures supplied. What you should do is try and match the one and two to any Bills players numbers from those couple years, not just Kelly pictures. Number slants and the block spacing within the numeral two.

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  • kingjammy24
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    more pics from '86. the pic of smith with his jersey untucked is a still from a video of the 1986 training camp.

    maybe i'm wrong but isn't '86 the last year that they wore the blue facemasks? if so, then wouldn't any pic of kelly with a blue facemask necessarily be only from '86?





    rudy.

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  • beantown
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    Other photos circa. 1986/1987...
    Attached Files

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  • beantown
    replied
    Re: New Football Items

    More photos from 1986...

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