Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

[rose14]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

I don't care who does it or has done it in the past. They are all cowards in my book. Anyone that takes joy in particpating or watching whether a past president or not is scum in my book. Those people have no respect for any living creature.

[camarokids]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

Hey Pedro , at least the Roman Emperors and Gladiators would be proud of you and your Dominican Culture....

but this is the 21st Century.....

I for one do not see the where the joy comes from in watching an animal or person fighting to the death .....

[kingjammy24]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

FYI George Washington and Thomas Jefferson participated in cockfighting.

thomas jefferson also owned 187 slaves and believed in segregation. at the same time, he was also a hypocrite who fathered out-of-wedlock bi-racial children with a concubine. washington owned 317 slaves. if your point is that both men had severely flawed sides, then i agree. apparently, their enjoyment of cockfighting was one of their flaws.

during the time of slavery in the US, it was not only legal but also acceptable. during that time, there were also those who, despite the laws and culture at the time, clearly had the common sense and moral compass to know it wasn't right. today, any thinking person looks back and knows it wasn't right or acceptable.

at some point in the future, i imagine the DR will follow a similar path and look back this disgusting part of its cultural history with regret and embarassment. washington went from having no moral reservations about slavery to eventually realizing it was wrong. everyone wakes up at different times.

rudy.

[sylbry]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

Apparently there is a tv show hosted by former Twin Kent Hrbek who *gasp* hooks fish with sharp wires and kills birds and animals.

Pedro appearing at a chickenfight is about as newsworthy as Britney Spears going to the hospital. Chickenfighting is legal and generally accepted in the the DR. They don't care if you like it or not. It isn't your business. Things like abortions are legal in this country. Which is worse. Letting two chickens duke it out or shoving a sharp object through the head of an unborn baby. I don't like abortions but I won't sit here and judge someone who got one. I won't call them a coward.

I am not saying you don't have the right to be disappointed with Pedro supporting that activity. But judging him is premature without first understanding the role the activity plays in the culture. I know we as Americans certainly don't appreciate the radical Muslims judging us for what is accepted in our culture.

As far as people doing things in the past that were legal which are illegal now, yep it happens and it is based on changing opinions over time. I am fully convinced that in 100 years from now people will look back on us with disgust for driving gas guzzling heavy vehicles with big v8 engines that "destroyed" the environment.

[XPFO]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

Not only is cock-fighting a part of the culture in the Dominican but it is widely accepted through most parts of Central and south America as well as Mexico. Several years back, I attended a cock fight while on an excursion in Mexico. We went and explored the more traditional side of Mexican culture including the cock-fights and luchador fights. they have stadiums built to hold upwards of a thousand people just to see the cock-fighting event. I am not saying I condone it, but every culture has things that are frowned upon in other societys. China and Korea, eating dogs is common place, here it is seen as disgusting. We have abortion, other religions and culture think that is murder.

I don't think it is right for us to judge another societies beliefs. It might not be politically correct where you come from, but to some societies it is common place.

And FYI, if you ever want to speak of inhumane torture of chickens...on a recent business call to a plant that processes chickens for chicken wieners, I was far more disgusted with the way Chickens were treated and "disposed" of then I was attending the cock-fights, but this is accepted in our culture...why is that?? Because they are being processed for food? Tell that to the chicken.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

Apparently there is a tv show hosted by former Twin Kent Hrbek who *gasp* hooks fish with sharp wires and kills birds and animals.

Pedro appearing at a chickenfight is about as newsworthy as Britney Spears going to the hospital. Chickenfighting is legal and generally accepted in the the DR. They don't care if you like it or not. It isn't your business. Things like abortions are legal in this country. Which is worse. Letting two chickens duke it out or shoving a sharp object through the head of an unborn baby. I don't like abortions but I won't sit here and judge someone who got one. I won't call them a coward.

I am not saying you don't have the right to be disappointed with Pedro supporting that activity. But judging him is premature without first understanding the role the activity plays in the culture. I know we as Americans certainly don't appreciate the radical Muslims judging us for what is accepted in our culture.

As far as people doing things in the past that were legal which are illegal now, yep it happens and it is based on changing opinions over time. I am fully convinced that in 100 years from now people will look back on us with disgust for driving gas guzzling heavy vehicles with big v8 engines that "destroyed" the environment.

These are all good points. They make for an interesting debate. These are all opinions, so everyone is right. I think the animal lovers of this forum (myself included) just spoke with their hearts. I was given a shotgun on my 12th birthday. I went with my dad and grandfather, and shot a squirrel. I've gone duck hunting and dove hunting. But I grew up and realized I had more sense. I didn't keep hunting cause it was part of my culture. I picked up a fishing rod before I picked up a football or baseball bat. I still think fishing is cool. But what angler tortures fish? My family practices the "catch and release" concept of fishing. The information given about Washington and Jefferson is not opinion....it is fact.

[joelsabi]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

Dude
What is your obession with giving cockfighters the benefit of the doubt? The Dominican Republic is a third world country. They're still learning. Giv'em a few years to catch up with the rest of the civilized world. Washington and Jefferson never learned the difference between right and wrong, then they died and their bodies turned to dust. I don't know much about the laws of the Dominican Republic....but, slavery is illegal there, right?

i am not obsessed. i just dont think it is newsworthy. its also not like culture is morally progressive. maybe the dominicans will illegalize boiling live lobster before we do.

[zonker]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

just my 2 cent's i agree it's not newsworthy. i wonder if the forum member's who are so offended by the culture of the dominican republic and the thought of legalized chicken fighting, realize chicken fighting is legal in oklahoma. which is part of the great o'l usa and it's culture! i know oklahoma isn't the culture meca of the universe or anything! ,but i just don't think people should be casting stones. when as far as i can see are just as guilty. look at all the negative thing's stated out of "ignorance" about another culture, by member's of our own. "makes me proud" do you really think our culture is so much better, that it gives us the right to judge another? personally i would rather pay to see a heavy weight fight or an ultimate fighting match where i can watch men or women go at it legally. hey maybe someone will die! oh how civilized we are?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

I re-read some of my earlier posts and realized I may have come across as an elitest. I DO NOT think American Culture is superior to that of other nations. I'm simply against cruelty to animals. I also think chicken fighters in Oklahoma are sociopaths and psychopaths. This is my opinion. This is a great topic for debate (although off topic for this forum). Is there a difference in stomping chickens to death at a KFC processing plant (behind closed doors); or betting on which rooster kills another (out in the open)?
No hard feelings to those with different opinions!

[metsbats]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

Gentlemen,

Let's put things in perpective.

We live in a country where it's legal for women to have abortions.

OJ Simpson is aquitted of murdering two people but Michael Vick is convicted of killing dogs.

And we are frowning upon chickens fighting?

David

[joelsabi]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

[quote=both-teams-played-hard;71369] My family practices the "catch and release" concept of fishing. quote]

Studies show that fish who are caught and then returned to the water suffer such severe physiological stress that they often die of shock. Fish often swallow hooks, and anglers try to retrieve the hook by shoving their fingers or pliers down the fish's throat, ripping out not just the hook but some of the fish's throat and guts as well. When fish are handled, the protective coating on their bodies is disturbed. These and other injuries make fish easy targets for predators once they are returned to the water

[frikativ54]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

These are all good points. They make for an interesting debate. These are all opinions, so everyone is right. I think the animal lovers of this forum (myself included) just spoke with their hearts. I was given a shotgun on my 12th birthday. I went with my dad and grandfather, and shot a squirrel. I've gone duck hunting and dove hunting. But I grew up and realized I had more sense. I didn't keep hunting cause it was part of my culture. I picked up a fishing rod before I picked up a football or baseball bat. I still think fishing is cool. But what angler tortures fish? My family practices the "catch and release" concept of fishing. The information given about Washington and Jefferson is not opinion....it is fact.

Glad you became more wise with age. You shot a squirrel? I have 20,000+ squirrel photos on my kodakgallery website, because I love them that much. In my world, dead squirrels upset me just as much as dead humans. Though, I'm glad you grew out of it with age.

My personal opinion on the matter is that animal cruelty is bad, but we've got to clean up our own country first. Unless the woman is pregnant because of rape or incest, or the woman is in long-term danger, then I think that abortion should be illegal here.

We also should clean up our treatment of downed cows and animals in general in the U.S. We keep them in cages and raise them just to kill them. I'm not suggesting that we all turn vegetarian; I just wish we treated our animals more humanely.

What Pedro Martinez did was wrong, and he should be reprimanded for that. I hope that U.S. animal rights groups get all over this one and exert their influence. But I think that we have a lot more to worry about here than cock-fighting in the Dominican Republic.

That doesn't mean we should do nothing; it just means that it's easy to point fingers at others, without examining the human rights tragedies here in the U.S. But more power to us if animal rights groups can educate the DR on right and wrong.

[thome25.com]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

How can anybody be so barbaric? By the way, did anybody see that great middle weight fight the other night? The 2 guys beat the crap out of one another.. Great fight.

[bscott]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

hmmm...

First: how does one's particular stance on abortion have anything to do with Game Used Sports Memorabilia?

Second: TO BE CLEAR: COCKFIGHTING IS CURRENTLY LEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES. RIGHT NOW. (It is only legal in the State of Louisiana, and a ban on cockfighting will take place there on August 15, 2008.)

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/aug07/070815n.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockfight

Just saying.


-bscott.

[frikativ54]

Re: Pedro Martinez - the new Michael Vick

hmmm...

First: how does one's particular stance on abortion have anything to do with Game Used Sports Memorabilia?

It isn't directly pertinent. However, the point being made was that we are judging other cultures' practices, when we aren't the archetype of a moral nation ourselves. And many of us who are pro-life are saying that we should look at our own country's faults before we castigate Pedro for the actions of Latin American cultures who have gotten it right about abortion.

Hope this clarifies things.