Changes at MEARS

[kingjammy24]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

i suppose i've got a different take on things. i think differing viewpoints are one of the things that makes this forum so valuable though.

predictably, dave paints himself as a selfless martyr, castigated by bloodthirsty hatemongers, all for nothing more than a couple of simple "mistakes". oh woe is him who hath build this hobby with his bare hands, authored every book and every article ever read by anyone, and helped his fellow collectors more than anyone in history. the nameless, faceless, online hellhounds have chased away a completely well-intentioned man who desired nothing more than to simply help his fellow collectors.

not sure how many caught this recent thread:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/42715...nt+REA+Auction.

a simple "mistake" right? the sort that dave feels he's unfairly persecuted for. let's look at this mistake to see the grave injustices that dave is subjected to. the jersey is owned by bushing and has been given an A10, the highest grade possible. it has a very large, very noticeable stain on the front. mears' own grading criteria explicitly states that points are deducted for stains. anywhere from .5 to 5 pts depending on the size and severity of the stain. in order for the A10 to truly be an innocent mistake, 1 of 2 things must've genuinely occurred: either dave did not see the stain or he was unaware of mears' grading criteria. anyone with one working eye can see that stain. if dave truly missed it, then that is frightening. i don't believe he missed the stain. it's as plain as day, especially for an "expert".
was dave unaware of the details of mears' grading system? after spending years at mears, as their top authenticator, evaluating hundreds of items, i have to think that dave is very well versed in mears' grading system. so if dave saw the stain and was aware that points ought to be deducted for them, then how on earth could this jersey have managed to retain a perfect A10? could it be because dave owned the jersey and stood to personally profit from it? could it be because dave knew that an A10 would put more money in his pocket than an A7 or A8? those certainly seem far more plausible than the idea that he missed the stain or was unfamiliar with mears' grading system. this of course begs the question of how many other A10s has dave slapped onto items he's owned that really should've been graded lower (and thus sold for lower)? this behavior is not tolerable to me.

"I will no longer even grade or authenticate my own merchandise, rather leave that to the staff."

why was this not happening from day 1? if other mears staff could authenticate dave's items, then why on earth was dave doing it himself, especially given mears' strong objection to conflicts of interest?

dave bushing has his fans. i am not among them. if he truly stays retired from authenticating, then it seems he'll be doing what he really does best: blowing his own trumpet and flipping items.

incidentally, i found the notion of a "professional authenticator" calling out others for being "self proclaimed so called authorities" to be absolutely hilarious. especially when it was prefaced with dave "self proclaiming" all of his mighty accomplishments in the hobby. did he tell you how he's written more books than you? more articles, has given more advice, baptised more babies, parted more seas, and saved more planets? what i suspect dave is really tired of is being called out on his shenanigans. he's tired of not being able to operate in the "ethically-challenged" bushingland of the 90s, before mears came along and forced him to disclose conflicts of interest. oh the heady days of when you could buy a dimaggio bat, give it a perfect score, attribute it to his 56-hit streak, and quietly keep secret that you also owned the bat. perhaps he's really tired of having to operate within the confines of an ethical standard all while having his work subjected to the diligent eyes of the internet. it was much easier before GUU came along and before vince malta had the bright idea to release those damn bat records to the public.

"Base point, no more conflict of interest, I am simply interested in buying and selling and making a profit."

i'm not sure dave was ever interested in anything else. mears was simply a convenient tool for him to do it.

rudy.

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

"I will no longer even grade or authenticate my own merchandise, rather leave that to the staff."

why was this not happening from day 1? if other mears staff could authenticate dave's items, then why on earth was dave doing it himself, especially given mears' strong objection to conflicts of interest?

---Because he buys way too many bats on Ebay



dave bushing has his fans. i am not among them. if he truly stays retired from authenticating, then it seems he'll be doing what he really does best: blowing his own trumpet and flipping items.

---- I agree with you! He sounds pretty damn arrogant to me!!

[kingjammy24]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Very true about using the records, but you know what I mean how that would get frustrating for someone that does not have access to that?

i'm sure mike specht can provide more illumination and/or correct me here. way back when, only a select few had access to the LVS records. clearly this was frustrating to the collecting masses who were forced to depend on the select few for their interpretation of the records. especially frustrating when some of these select few came up with entirely new definitions for "matches factory records". i believe vince malta was instrumental in getting the permission from LVS to be able to release these records in a public format. vince authored 2 books on the matter. it's likely that malta's books are by far the most influential and valuable to bat collectors.

the curious side of me wonders what dave bushing originally thought of vince's idea to release the records to the public.

rudy.

[Danny899]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

[---- I agree with you! He sounds pretty damn arrogant to me!![/quote]

Imagine that, someone arrogant in this hobby. Words like "self proclaimed expert, professional authenticator, impeccable source, expert opinion" and a host of others. Don't forget the endless Lampson posts. It's obvious he doesn't have much credibility in this forum. Am I the only one who's grown tired of them? Do your own research when making purchases and don't rely on a letter or "expert opinion" Because when you question an "expert" whether it's here or through a company, you will certainly see how delicate some feelings are.
P.S. This was my amatuer opinion.

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

So danny, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my quote you used?

[Danny899]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

So danny, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my quote you used


Mr. Devlin, I am agreeing with you and trying to show that the arrogance of some in this hobby is not limited to just one individual, company or "expert." You can see this on many posts in this forum, auction catalogs or websites. Try telling them them that slight deviations in numbers, fonts, sizing, tagging and tailoring doesn't necessarily mean a jersey is not authentic. Watch a game closely or look at common player jerseys and you can see that if you look hard enough. This is just one example. I'm objective enough to say that there many members on this forum who are extremely knowledgable and often helpful. But try telling some of them, "Hey you might be wrong," and watch the arrogance that you and I mention kick into high gear. Now wouldn't you agree?
Respectfully, Dan

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Ohhh ok, I got ya now! I think I just misinterpreted what you were saying I would agree with you.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Authenticating? I thought that MEARS evaluated and researched material? I thought they gathered information about an item, gave an opinion, then let the customer make up their mind. All they have to win or lose is credibility.


Authenticating is like playing a girl in basketball. If you win, then you hear: "it's a girl-you're supposed to win."
If you lose, then you hear:
"how in the hell did you get beat by a girl?"

[BMH]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Personally I believe Dave Bushing and Vince Malta did a great service for Hillerich & Bradsby by going through the archives, categorizing materials and for making a great manual such as Vince's book. This may sound sad but it's easier for us to use Mr. Malta's book than our own records when looking information on certain models!

The time and effort it must have taken to go through the written materials and through the bat vault is truly astonishing. A lot of our turning models are gone, they were thrown out, sold, or given away during a time when no one thought they were worth anything. At one of our auctions we were interested in buying a Honus Wagner bat that Mr. Bushing had for sale. Mr. Bushing stopped us because he found one in our basement that no one knew about.

I know most of you think of our records as some huge secret or holy grail of collecting, but honestly, there isn't much information there. Most of the details were kept by the turners themselves, in their heads. A lot of what's written in the books are footnotes to help them remember how to make the bats. None of it was really for historical documentation. Some of it are scraps of paper thrown in a folder. If it's anything like most the information I've found it was in one of the old warehouses in some corner and no one knew or cared it was there. I've found some of our old autograph books in our Floyd Street warehouse on the floor rotting.

I personally don't know all of the details with our dealings with Mr. Bushing or Mr. Malta. So if something did happen (which I seriously doubt) to our relationship with Mr. Bushing I haven't heard anything about it. I do know that Louisville Slugger is better off with the help we have received from both of them. I hope to see Mr. Bushing at Fanfest as I have for the past couple years and our auction in November.

Brian Hillerich
Pro Bat Production Manager
Louisville Slugger

[allstarsplus]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Just last week on my top picks for bat authenticators on a GUF I listed Dave Bushing as one of my picks although I hadn't used his services in a while.

I found this on the MEARs site:

Re: More info

April 17 2008 at 1:37 PM
Joel Alpert (Login trsent)

Response to More infoDave Bushing, bravo if it is time to move on but please understand, if you let the likes of certain public forums who believe everyone is out to commit fraud and never give a chance to the honest people in the industry get the best of you, they have done the job they have set out to do.

I stopped posting on one discussion group about a year and a half ago, but I did post a few months ago when questioned about an item I had for sale on eBay to come out of my shell. Before leaving that group on a daily basis, I had more posts in the discussions there than anyone else. I just realized my life was better not reading their criticism each and ever day.

In fact, here is an example. There was many issues with an auction house, Historic Auctions, where they were not replying to emails about questionable merchandise. I went out to dinner with the owner of the company where we discussed him responding to questions in a more professional manner. He promised to do so, then kept ignoring the questions.

Members of the discussion group threw it in my face that I met with the guy and listened to him promise to respond to questions. They literally made fun of me for trying. (I guess in the end they blocked links from the web site of this group, meaning they didn't want to be responsible for listening to questions about their merchandise)

Anyway, best of luck to you. I think you'll find being a buyer and seller only once again to be a great, stress free way to enjoy this great industry.

Joel Alpert
TRS Enterprises
joel@alpert.net

MEARS Certified Dealer

[aeneas01]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

i suppose i've got a different take on things. i think differing viewpoints are one of the things that makes this forum so valuable though.

predictably, dave paints himself as a selfless martyr, castigated by bloodthirsty hatemongers, all for nothing more than a couple of simple "mistakes". oh woe is him who hath build this hobby with his bare hands, authored every book and every article ever read by anyone, and helped his fellow collectors more than anyone in history. the nameless, faceless, online hellhounds have chased away a completely well-intentioned man who desired nothing more than to simply help his fellow collectors.

not sure how many caught this recent thread:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/42715...nt+REA+Auction.

a simple "mistake" right? the sort that dave feels he's unfairly persecuted for. let's look at this mistake to see the grave injustices that dave is subjected to. the jersey is owned by bushing and has been given an A10, the highest grade possible. it has a very large, very noticeable stain on the front. mears' own grading criteria explicitly states that points are deducted for stains. anywhere from .5 to 5 pts depending on the size and severity of the stain. in order for the A10 to truly be an innocent mistake, 1 of 2 things must've genuinely occurred: either dave did not see the stain or he was unaware of mears' grading criteria. anyone with one working eye can see that stain. if dave truly missed it, then that is frightening. i don't believe he missed the stain. it's as plain as day, especially for an "expert".
was dave unaware of the details of mears' grading system? after spending years at mears, as their top authenticator, evaluating hundreds of items, i have to think that dave is very well versed in mears' grading system. so if dave saw the stain and was aware that points ought to be deducted for them, then how on earth could this jersey have managed to retain a perfect A10? could it be because dave owned the jersey and stood to personally profit from it? could it be because dave knew that an A10 would put more money in his pocket than an A7 or A8? those certainly seem far more plausible than the idea that he missed the stain or was unfamiliar with mears' grading system. this of course begs the question of how many other A10s has dave slapped onto items he's owned that really should've been graded lower (and thus sold for lower)? this behavior is not tolerable to me.

"I will no longer even grade or authenticate my own merchandise, rather leave that to the staff."

why was this not happening from day 1? if other mears staff could authenticate dave's items, then why on earth was dave doing it himself, especially given mears' strong objection to conflicts of interest?

dave bushing has his fans. i am not among them. if he truly stays retired from authenticating, then it seems he'll be doing what he really does best: blowing his own trumpet and flipping items.

incidentally, i found the notion of a "professional authenticator" calling out others for being "self proclaimed so called authorities" to be absolutely hilarious. especially when it was prefaced with dave "self proclaiming" all of his mighty accomplishments in the hobby. did he tell you how he's written more books than you? more articles, has given more advice, baptised more babies, parted more seas, and saved more planets? what i suspect dave is really tired of is being called out on his shenanigans. he's tired of not being able to operate in the "ethically-challenged" bushingland of the 90s, before mears came along and forced him to disclose conflicts of interest. oh the heady days of when you could buy a dimaggio bat, give it a perfect score, attribute it to his 56-hit streak, and quietly keep secret that you also owned the bat. perhaps he's really tired of having to operate within the confines of an ethical standard all while having his work subjected to the diligent eyes of the internet. it was much easier before GUU came along and before vince malta had the bright idea to release those damn bat records to the public.

"Base point, no more conflict of interest, I am simply interested in buying and selling and making a profit."

i'm not sure dave was ever interested in anything else. mears was simply a convenient tool for him to do it.

rudy.

i share your take....

but i also thought bushing's meanderings entered the realm of the truly bizarre - twilight zone, actually. i mean where else other than in the mind of mr. serling would you find a staff member announce to the world that he will remain with the company but will quit contributing to the very service the company offers? only in serling's world would this make strategic business sense.

here's a novel idea - rather than whine incessantly about perceived injustices and personal sacrifices that are not appreciated, why not publicly state that the message has been heard loud and clear and that from this point forward energy will be redoubled, commitment refocused, in an ardent effort to regain and maintain the collector's confidence in mears and its staff members. that from this point forward, with the collective help and input of collectors everywhere, mears will strive to be the absolute best in the business.

guess that wouldn't make much sense though, would it? guess when faced with adversity it's much easier to blame others, play martyr and take your ball and go home.

i don't know bushing but i have read some of his articles at mears and he strikes me as a guy that's genuinely passionate about the hobby - and he seems like a decent enough fellow. i just wish that he, nerat and a few others would hang up the ridiculous "evil anonymous poster" schtick. it's an enormous cop out and entirely disingenuous - i have never had any problem whatsoever contacting a forum member, we are here and available. hardly anonymous, hardly incommunicado. i would suggest that it is they that are the anonymous posters, bloggers, because they choose not to engage in discussion - and for good reason from what i can tell....

[jboosted92]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Personally I believe Dave Bushing and Vince Malta did a great service for Hillerich & Bradsby by going through the archives, categorizing materials and for making a great manual such as Vince's book. This may sound sad but it's easier for us to use Mr. Malta's book than our own records when looking information on certain models!

The time and effort it must have taken to go through the written materials and through the bat vault is truly astonishing. A lot of our turning models are gone, they were thrown out, sold, or given away during a time when no one thought they were worth anything. At one of our auctions we were interested in buying a Honus Wagner bat that Mr. Bushing had for sale. Mr. Bushing stopped us because he found one in our basement that no one knew about.

I know most of you think of our records as some huge secret or holy grail of collecting, but honestly, there isn't much information there. Most of the details were kept by the turners themselves, in their heads. A lot of what's written in the books are footnotes to help them remember how to make the bats. None of it was really for historical documentation. Some of it are scraps of paper thrown in a folder. If it's anything like most the information I've found it was in one of the old warehouses in some corner and no one knew or cared it was there. I've found some of our old autograph books in our Floyd Street warehouse on the floor rotting.

I personally don't know all of the details with our dealings with Mr. Bushing or Mr. Malta. So if something did happen (which I seriously doubt) to our relationship with Mr. Bushing I haven't heard anything about it. I do know that Louisville Slugger is better off with the help we have received from both of them. I hope to see Mr. Bushing at Fanfest as I have for the past couple years and our auction in November.

Brian Hillerich
Pro Bat Production Manager
Louisville Slugger

BMH,

Thanks for saying the following:

"know most of you think of our records as some huge secret or holy grail of collecting, but honestly, there isn't much information there. Most of the details were kept by the turners themselves, in their heads. A lot of what's written in the books are footnotes to help them remember how to make the bats"

Most people think on this site, that those records are the end all of authenticating bats. While its a tremendous assest, to think that the bats listed in the notes were the only ones ordered or the only style(s) ordered is absurd and disproven, even by a L.S. Manager like yourselve!

I realize this is off-topic, but a great point to many other posts.

[sicollector1954@insightbb.com]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

BMH--I would appreciate an e-mail from you if you see this post. I have some pictures I would like you to send you.
I was at the Premier show in Chicago yesterday and talked with both John Taube and Dave Bushing for some time. I did not bring up this subject with Mr. Bushing as I had not read this thread previously and really did not know anything as to what might be going on.

The comments made by jboosted92 in the previous post are very true. I took a bat in for these 2 authenticators to see in person and neither could tell me what it was. They had no records to identify it and had never seen one marked like it previously so an opinion is all they could offer. Apparently--everyone is still learning something when it comes to this hobby--even the so called experts.

sicollector1954@comcast.net

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

BMH,

Thanks for saying the following:

"know most of you think of our records as some huge secret or holy grail of collecting, but honestly, there isn't much information there. Most of the details were kept by the turners themselves, in their heads. A lot of what's written in the books are footnotes to help them remember how to make the bats"

Most people think on this site, that those records are the end all of authenticating bats. While its a tremendous assest, to think that the bats listed in the notes were the only ones ordered or the only style(s) ordered is absurd and disproven, even by a L.S. Manager like yourselve!

I realize this is off-topic, but a great point to many other posts.

So in saying that, why dont they just release the records to the public? Just curious.

[Eric]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Regarding the posters being anonymous,

As I have explained before, everyone on this site registers with a valid first name, last name and email address. As I have explained before there is a searchable database of names in the Hobby Network section.

It is by no means anonymous.

Also, I'm confused about something. Bushing wrote "And it is of no consequence that you can get 8000 items right but if you make a single error, regardles of how trivial and regardless that you will offer to buy back any mistake, no matter what it is, it never seems to be enough for the self proclaimed so called authorities who wait at the computer for an auction catalog to come out merely for the purpose to rip it to shreads to show the world how much they know and how little others do."

So the complaint is that he's being corrected by people when an auction catalog comes out? These people- who are de facto niche experts- are saving MEARS the money and effort of having to buy items back.

It's interesting that he didn't say the info being offered by the people on message boards was incorrect, it's that they "show the world how much they know and how little others do"

Actually what they're doing is trying to prevent consumers from buying iterms that aren't entirely as authenticated.