Changes at MEARS

[jboosted92]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

So in saying that, why dont they just release the records to the public? Just curious.

"They" did. Vince took HIS time to organize the info into a very readable book, and for his work, he sells the book. Fair enough.

Im sure all other persons who had the data werent going to dump it out publicly while Vince is making a book.

And remeber these "records" werent the cleanest copies of information to be distrubuted...

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

I see what you are saying, but when I said "records", I meant every player that has records available, which they have not done.

When you said, "Most people think on this site, that those records are the end all of authenticating bats. While its a tremendous assest, to think that the bats listed in the notes were the only ones ordered or the only style(s) ordered is absurd and disproven, even by a L.S. Manager like yourselve!"

I see what you are saying, but at the same time a lot of people do not want the records for authentication purposes, obviously. I, for one, would like a fair advantage when I go after a bat, and when I go up against someone that has every record of a player. I personally feel thats an unfair advantage for the person that does not have those records. Sure, they've posted lots of records in books, but what about the Fred Hopke's, the Dwayne Helbigs, the Joe Pattersons, the Johnny Lipons?--Very small examples. They arent in those books, mostly just HOF and major stars. But, someone that is supposed to use these records for authentication purposes gets on Ebay and uses it for personal gain, thats what ticks me off. And I know some will disagree with this, but I know people that have gone after items without the records(not knowing for sure if the item is the real deal), to only be outbid by someone that has the records for that player. Then he authenticates his own items, and sells them for a huge profit on their website, as well as individual sales. Now thats wrong! I guess I might be the only one that feels the same about this issue. This is a hot topic for me, if you cant tell

[G1X]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Eric,

How do I research names of posters in the searchable database of names in the Hobby Network section as mentioned in your previous post?

Regardless, it seems much easier to set rules requiring folks to post their full (real) name and email address each time they post. It would lend us all a little more credibility, and completely eliminate the "annonymous posters" and "coward" argument raised by Dave Bushing, Chris Nerat, and others.

Just a thought.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[jboosted92]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

I see what you are saying, but when I said "records", I meant every player that has records available, which they have not done.

When you said, "Most people think on this site, that those records are the end all of authenticating bats. While its a tremendous assest, to think that the bats listed in the notes were the only ones ordered or the only style(s) ordered is absurd and disproven, even by a L.S. Manager like yourselve!"

I see what you are saying, but at the same time a lot of people do not want the records for authentication purposes, obviously. I, for one, would like a fair advantage when I go after a bat, and when I go up against someone that has every record of a player. I personally feel thats an unfair advantage for the person that does not have those records. Sure, they've posted lots of records in books, but what about the Fred Hopke's, the Dwayne Helbigs, the Joe Pattersons, the Johnny Lipons?--Very small examples. They arent in those books, mostly just HOF and major stars. But, someone that is supposed to use these records for authentication purposes gets on Ebay and uses it for personal gain, thats what ticks me off. And I know some will disagree with this, but I know people that have gone after items without the records(not knowing for sure if the item is the real deal), to only be outbid by someone that has the records for that player. Then he authenticates his own items, and sells them for a huge profit on their website, as well as individual sales. Now thats wrong! I guess I might be the only one that feels the same about this issue. This is a hot topic for me, if you cant tell

Last time i checked there wasnt a Fred Hopke store model bat, so if you came across one and it was a professional model, i think it would be a safe bet.


Are you saying that if according to L.S. entries Fred Hopke ordered a 33 inch 33 oz bat, and you came across a 34 inch 36 ounce Fred Hopke Pro-Model...the fact you "knew" that he ordered a 33 inch bat, would deter you from getting it? For common players, i doubt it...

As i doubt Fred Hopke bats were ordered in a heavy manner.

Im not sure if thats 100% of the reason, but think of how many pro -ball players ordered bats.. 60,000?

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Fred Hopke was a small example. And the answer to your question--Absolutely! If I had records indicating that a player ordered 33in 32oz bat, and came across a 35 in 34oz bat, whether a no namer or not, I wouldnt purchase it. Why would I? If the records dont match, then its a good probability its not his. Since I do not have the records, I have to go with a pure gut feeling I suppose and do research with the resources that I have. Does this make sense or am I just dumb?--dont answer that!

[MSpecht]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Hi Nate--

At the risk of going too far off topic here, here are my thoughts on the points you raise:

First, to get a historical perspective on how the bat collecting hobby got to this point, check out this piece in the "Expert's Corner" of the GUU site:
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/blog/post.php?topic=151

As far as H & B releasing the records to the public --- the effort, cost (in time and money) and the potential audience really does not make that viable , even if they wanted to do it. Remember, H & B primarily in the business of making and selling baseball bats. The records they have were never intended for public scrutiny, they were basically internal documents (or other pieces of information) used to assist in the manufacture and sale of baseball bats. When, after publication of our first book, BATS, H & B agreed, due to the tireless efforts of Vince Malta, to give us full access to their records, it was because Vince convinced them that the distribution of the records would assist collectors in determining the legitimacy of an item and lessen the possibility of collectors getting ripped off. Bill Williams, VP at the time, agreed that would be a good thing.

How much effort did the publication of Vince's second book take? Well, it was initially thought to be about a one year project , but it turned out that it was published 13 years after BATS, and about 10 years after autherization had been gained from H & B. And, that was after the decision to limit the inclusion of players' records to only Hall of Famers. By the way, in a previous post someone mentioned something like 'Vince got the informatiion, wrote the book, and makes the money.' I am absolutely positive that if either Vince or his wife read that, it would give them the best laugh they have had in years. If either of the books would have been viewed only as a profit-making venture, then publication of them would have been the worst business decision ever made. Anyway, as Brian Hillerich points out, the work involved in the research, writing, and publication was overwhelming to Vince and others at times, but ultimately the book proved to be useful to H & B over time as well. Also, H & B subsequently saw fit to use Dave Bushing as well, to access information in the records and respond to inquiries that the company received.

More to the point, Nate. Unfortunately, there is just not a sufficient audience of Johnny Lipon and Jesus Alou fans out there to warrant the effort and expense. The idea has been thrown around to publish another book, something along the lines of "The Next Best 100 Hitters Not in the Hall of Fame," but given the expense and effort, I do not see it happening. Occasionally, I will prepare a limited chart for a collector, and, depending on the number of years played, and the number of bats ordered, it is a 3 to 10 hour (unpaid) job. Actually, Jim Caravello and I have discussed the possibility of getting another 400 - 500 personal H & B shipping records out there through various possible delivery systems, but nothing has worked out yet.

Which brings us to GUU. There is no better place to access available information about professional model player's bats than this site. All of the HOF charts in Vince's book are available in the Game Used Library section of this site. If you use the "Read All Posts" feature by clicking on the name of Jim Caravello or me, you will find responses to questions that give all available information found in the H & B records for many, many non-HOF players, in much more detail than found elsewhere. The willingness of members Jeff Scott, Carlie Medina, Marcus Sevier, and many others to share their expertise in specific areas pertaining to game used bats is the embodiment of the "community" envisioned by Eric and Chris. The willingness of Brian Hillerich to actively participate in GUU is a major bonus to get both insight as to the inner workings of the H & B plus specific information on many current players. Not to say that GUU is the only place to get information. As I have always said, I believe the researched information delivered by Dave Grob, Dave Bushing, and Troy Kinunen on the MEARS site is among the most valuable in the hobby, not to mention the additional information found on Jeff's site - Birdbats , Vince and John Taube's postings on the PSA/DNA site, and others. But GUU is the site where you can get detailed information in pretty much real time, and that is the difference.

All the best in future collecting.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- MARK: to use the Hobby Network festure, take the following steps:

GUU > Log In .> Hobby Network> Search

Mike

[BMH]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Mike,

Excellent post, I've spent the past hour trying to write something to answer some of the posts made and I believe you did a beautiful job. I'm not the best writer in the world and sometimes transferring what's in my head to the keyboard doesn't go as planned

I love visiting this site and talking to different people in the business because it helps me learn about my job and it's past. I'm a firm believer in the fact you'll never know where you're going if you don't know where you've been. The information I get from this site is great and I recommend it to anyone that has a question for our company. To this day when I get an email about a bat I first consult Mr. Malta's book and if the information isn't there I give them Dave Bushings number. We don't have the resources to do the legwork so it was a great service to us to have Vince and Dave in our museum to help organize it better. After being on this site for the past year I now give out the web address to people who have questions about our bats.

I can answer most questions about newer models. I've been the one making them since 2003 and have made almost 300 new models. But for the older stuff I first refer to some computer records I have but most of that information is focused on souvenirs and may not accurately reflect what the player ordered.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

robert and eric: agreed.

bushing addresses every single issue under the sun except the actual one at hand.

voice - dave, if you saw the stain and you know that at least .5 pt up to 5 pts should've been deducted, how did it retain an A10?

dave - people on GUF are nameless! and faceless! and good god, do you know how many books i've written?! books for pete's sake! who among you can say you've written books? alright then.

voice - dave, if you saw the stain and you know that at least .5 pt up to 5 pts should've been deducted, how did it retain an A10?

dave - stop focusing on mistakes! do you know that i've gotten many items right? stop hiding behind computers! mears offers guarantees! what other company offers a guarantee? answer me that.

voice - dave, if you saw the stain and you know that at least .5 pt up to 5 pts should've been deducted, how did it retain an A10?

dave - that's it, i'm quitting mears.

the last time i heard a whine like that was from the neighbor boy and it was because he needed his diapers changed. maybe dave needs the same.

rudy.

[trsent]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

dave - people on GUF are nameless! and faceless! and good god, do you know how many books i've written?! books for pete's sake! who among you can say you've written books? alright then.

rudy.

Rudy, I personally appreciate the work you have done on this forum helping create new avenues to authenticate and photo-match memorabilia.

I take the quote above and post it here, because everyone I talk to in the industry feels you are not a real person, that "Rudy" is a bulletin board persona.

I really don't care if you are real, if your real name is "Rudy" or if you buy and sell game used items yourself. I just bring the point up that Mr. Busing's comment that you listed above is a belief of many that even though there is a check and balance system on Game Used Universe, and your work on this forum has often been amazing, that no on really knows who you are or where you came from before the Game Used Universe discussion forum.

Eric,

How do I research names of posters in the searchable database of names in the Hobby Network section as mentioned in your previous post?

Regardless, it seems much easier to set rules requiring folks to post their full (real) name and email address each time they post. It would lend us all a little more credibility, and completely eliminate the "annonymous posters" and "coward" argument raised by Dave Bushing, Chris Nerat, and others.

Just a thought.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

As Mark suggests above, I do not understand how all posts are not responsible to the writer with a full name and email address. I know the staff from this web site has their rules and regulations, but maybe it is time everyone is public if they are going to post on this forum, the most read discussion group in the industry of game used sports memorabilia.

Rudy, I am not picking on you, please don't take it that way. I am just bringing up the point that anyone who ever discusses this forum with me brings up that they have no idea who you are. I would believe that someone in this industry would know you personally who I would have run into over my years of travel and chit-chat.

Finally, after talking to Troy and Dave Bushing from MEARS today, I found no reason to believe there is "Trouble at MEARS". They just introduced their new pin-back button grading and slabbing service at this convention, and they are doing fine. I just believe Dave Bushing has decided it is time to concentrate on his first love once again, which is buying and selling game used and vintage sports memorabilia as a part of MEARS For Sale.

[3arod13]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

All I can say about this thread is WOW!

[mvandor]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Eric,

How do I research names of posters in the searchable database of names in the Hobby Network section as mentioned in your previous post?

Regardless, it seems much easier to set rules requiring folks to post their full (real) name and email address each time they post. It would lend us all a little more credibility, and completely eliminate the "annonymous posters" and "coward" argument raised by Dave Bushing, Chris Nerat, and others.

Just a thought.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Personally I agree, but then I already comply with those parameters. I do thoink it would enhance credibility. I also think it would cause some to type more cautiously knowing they couldn't hide behind a handle.

--
Michael Vandor

[trsent]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

To the GUU Moderator who edited my post, what was wrong with my discussion on MEARS For Sale? My short paragraph was removed and I have no clue why.

Please advise on this forum, as I cannot imagine what rule was violated. I have a copy of the the three sentence paragraph on file and I cannot imagine what was wrong with it and I figure if it is going to be removed, me and my public should be notified why.

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

What good does it to post your name and email address after our posts, if you dont want to? I understand all of your points, but at the same time, if I post something, and at the end put "Yoshi Nastystain Email- Yoshi@yahoo.com" Does that mean you are going to email me and feel better about my post knowing that you guys know my name is Yoshi Nastystain? So to me, posting your name and email address isnt a necessity. Is it sometimes nice for someone to drop a first name? Sure. Some people feel better about not posting that personal info on the net. And if you would really like to see a persons info, just search it on the Experts Corner. I personally have no problem with people posting their opinions whether they put a name/email with it or not. Its a game used forum, we're supposed to have fun and learn, not whine and fight with each other.

-Nate Devlin

[Danny899]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

And if you would really like to see a persons info, just search it on the Experts Corner. I personally have no problem with people posting their opinions whether they put a name/email with it or not. Its a game used forum, we're supposed to have fun and learn, not whine and fight with each other.

-Nate Devlin

Nate, Search the "experts corner." Oh no, there's that word expert again! Maybe rename it the, Ego Corner. We left out, "foremost authenticator." Is humor permitted here? You're right, this forum should be to have fun and learn, and mostly it is, but DO NOT question the experts. BTW, I haven't seen a Lampson mention in almost a day. Can you beleive it?
Dan

[ndevlin]

Re: Trouble at MEARS

Nate, Search the "experts corner." Oh no, there's that word expert again! Maybe rename it the, Ego Corner. We left out, "foremost authenticator." Is humor permitted here? You're right, this forum should be to have fun and learn, and mostly it is, but DO NOT question the experts. BTW, I haven't seen a Lampson mention in almost a day. Can you beleive it?
Dan

Whoops, thats Hobby Network to search. Are you implying that I am questioning experts?