Game Used Favre Story in SCD

[kingjammy24]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Rudy - I can hear the other conspiracy theory now that the #4 with the real sig and inscription was removed from the real jersey and sewn to a fake one.

sure, that's always possible too. but, from what i can tell, the number is tackle-twill right? so you're talking about removing the stitching, leaving those noticeable holes, and then re-sewing it. it's one thing to do such an alteration on a jersey where it's possible to cover up the ghost holes on the jersey material but i don't know how easy it'd be to cover it up on a tackle twill number. guy hankel saw 2 of these in person. i'm thinking he'd probably notice re-sewn numbers? you wouldn't see the ghost-stitching on the jersey but rather on the number itself. i think 2 sets of holes on those #4's would be somewhat obvious? it's a thought.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

sure, that's always possible too. but, from what i can tell, the number is tackle-twill right? so you're talking about removing the stitching, leaving those noticeable holes, and then re-sewing it. it's one thing to do such an alteration on a jersey where it's possible to cover up the ghost holes on the jersey material but i don't know how easy it'd be to cover it up on a tackle twill number. guy hankel saw 2 of these in person. i'm thinking he'd probably notice re-sewn numbers? you wouldn't see the ghost-stitching on the jersey but rather on the number itself. i think 2 sets of holes on those #4's would be somewhat obvious? it's a thought.

rudy.

Rudy - I don't think that was done either, but whenever something is questioned like this the "blame game" starts and the revisionists jump in and the conspiracy theories come about.

Already you have some that believe this is all just a big misunderstanding and an honest mistake happened which is impossible if Hankel is correct.

Like I said, let's see who wants to volunteer for a polygraph.

Hopefully Chris Nerat will throw in some more info on this.

[gwh11]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Regarding the jerseys I examined in hand, I saw no evidence that any numbers were re-sewn.

Guy

[beantown]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Very interesting read and analysis....for the '97 jersey, I did a quick search on eBay and found these....

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRETT-FAVRE-1997-TEAM-ISSUED-WHITE-JERSEY-GREEN-BAY_W0QQitemZ140279203787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item140279203787&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

This jersey is correct for not having the neck line below the horozontal seam, however, it has heat pressed numbers...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brett-Favre-Authentic-Used-NIKE-Jersey-Packers-Pro-Bowl_W0QQitemZ130268100687QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item130268100687&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/Packers-Brett-Favre-Authentic-Jersey-NIKE-1997-56_W0QQitemZ270284891985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item270284891985&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

These two Nike "authentic" store bought jerseys (IMO) have the neck line going below the horizontal line...

When looking at the SCD article/photo of the '97 Favre, it appears that the jersey that is being called into question has more of a "sheen" to the mesh vs. the actual photo of Favre in his game jersey....

Just my thoughts.....

[kingjammy24]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Rudy - I don't think that was done either, but whenever something is questioned like this the "blame game" starts and the revisionists jump in and the conspiracy theories come about.

Already you have some that believe this is all just a big misunderstanding and an honest mistake happened which is impossible if Hankel is correct.

Like I said, let's see who wants to volunteer for a polygraph.

Hopefully Chris Nerat will throw in some more info on this.

andrew lang

you know, you could quickly see if the numbers had been re-sewn if you could take a closer look at the inscriptions. i noticed that on the '97 jersey pictured in nerat's article, a part of the inscription runs to the very edge of the number and presumably over the thread. you could take a look at some of these bad favres and see if the inscription runs over the thread thereby indicating the number was signed after it was sewn on or if the there are breaks in the ink as it goes over the thread thereby indicating the number was re-sewn after it was signed. as easy way of telling whether it was sewn and then signed or signed and re-sewn. maybe nerat can follow up with that and get us a couple of closeups from this towes fellow.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

andrew lang

you know, you could quickly see if the numbers had been re-sewn if you could take a closer look at the inscriptions. i noticed that on the '97 jersey pictured in nerat's article, a part of the inscription runs to the very edge of the number and presumably over the thread. you could take a look at some of these bad favres and see if the inscription runs over the thread thereby indicating the number was signed after it was sewn on or if the there are breaks in the ink as it goes over the thread thereby indicating the number was re-sewn after it was signed. as easy way of telling whether it was sewn and then signed or signed and re-sewn. maybe nerat can follow up with that and get us a couple of closeups from this towes fellow.

rudy.

Rudy - Trust me, I don't believe that is the case, but there will be many with their own theories and I threw that out as a remote possibility.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Regarding the jerseys I examined in hand, I saw no evidence that any numbers were re-sewn.

Guy

This basically throws that alternate theory out the window. Have you determined if the sig/inscription are authentic?

[gwh11]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Typically, these GU Favre jerseys come with a signed letter and a photo of Favre holding the jersey after he had signed it or as he is signing it. The jersey, letter and photo will have the Brett Favre hologram all with the same (matching) number.

In the case of the two jerseys Steve sent to me, I didn't ask to see the accompanying letters and photos. If I recall correctly, I was told they did come with photos of Brett w/the jerseys. Obviously, this leads one to assume that the signatures/inscriptions are Brett's.

Guy

[kingjammy24]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Typically, these GU Favre jerseys come with a signed letter and a photo of Favre holding the jersey after he had signed it or as he is signing it. The jersey, letter and photo will have the Brett Favre hologram all with the same (matching) number.

In the case of the two jerseys Steve sent to me, I didn't ask to see the accompanying letters and photos. If I recall correctly, I was told they did come with photos of Brett w/the jerseys. Obviously, this leads one to assume that the signatures/inscriptions are Brett's.

Guy

if the numbers haven't been resewn, all signatures and inscriptions are legit (which i'd assume they have to be if the photos showing favre with the item are identical to the item at hand), then the only plausible conclusion is that favre was signing bad jerseys. after all, if the jerseys shown in the photos with favre, on the letters, perfectly match the jerseys deemed to be bad, then where else is there to possibly look? if at the time favre was signing the jerseys the jerseys were already bad, then you don't have to go too far to find out what happened.

one wonders if favre was handing over legit gamers to a certain person for the purpose of reselling them and that person was keeping the legit gamers and having favre sign bad shirts. twice the money. favre gives you a legit gamer which you can resell for say $4k. you go out and procure a doctored shirt for a pittance and have favre sign it and the corresponding letter and there's another $4k and all the while favre think he's given you 1 jersey and meanwhile you've sold 2 for the full market rate.

of course i suppose theres always the possibility that an intermediary was used to collect the jerseys from favre and deliver them to thomason. some lackey deliveryboy who got wise to it all and started slipping in the bad ones so he could keep the legit gamers. not sure if favre would give these personally and directly to thomason or if they used some intermediary to deliver them from favre to thomason.

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

if the numbers haven't been resewn, all signatures and inscriptions are legit (which i'd assume they have to be if the photos showing favre with the item are identical to the item at hand), then the only plausible conclusion is that favre was signing bad jerseys. after all, if the jerseys shown in the photos with favre, on the letters, perfectly match the jerseys deemed to be bad, then where else is there to possibly look? if at the time favre was signing the jerseys the jerseys were already bad, then you don't have to go too far to find out what happened.

one wonders if favre was handing over legit gamers to a certain person for the purpose of reselling them and that person was keeping the legit gamers and having favre sign bad shirts. twice the money. favre gives you a legit gamer which you can resell for say $4k. you go out and procure a doctored shirt for a pittance and have favre sign it and the corresponding letter and there's another $4k and all the while favre think he's given you 1 jersey and meanwhile you've sold 2 for the full market rate.

of course i suppose theres always the possibility that an intermediary was used to collect the jerseys from favre and deliver them to thomason. some lackey deliveryboy who got wise to it all and started slipping in the bad ones so he could keep the legit gamers. not sure if favre would give these personally and directly to thomason or if they used some intermediary to deliver them from favre to thomason.

rudy.

Rudy - If I follow your theory, than Rick Radtke would be in the clear.

Now if I read Nerat's notes correctly, Thomason is spearheading an investigation which brings his own impartiality and objectivity into question if he is not in the clear.

Rudy, is that a correct assumption?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Rudy - If I follow your theory, than Rick Radtke would be in the clear.

Now if I read Nerat's notes correctly, Thomason is spearheading an investigation which brings his own impartiality and objectivity into question if he is not in the clear.

Rudy, is that a correct assumption?

here's an example of what came with the favre package:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=45083

you'd get the letter, a photo of favre holding/signing the actual jersey, and matching holograms on the letter and jersey. if the numbers weren't resewn, then you can clearly match up the jersey in hand to the jersey shown with favre in the photo. (i'm guessing if the numbers were resewn, then things like the number placement may not match up in the photos.) again, if the bad jersey in hand matches the jersey in the photo with favre, then it's clear that favre was signing bad jerseys, isn't it? there isn't much more to it. towes should post the photos he received of favre holding his jersey. if they match up, then there's no other explanation other than favre was signing bad jerseys before they ever even shipped to any dealers.

favre wouldn't just scribble his signature. he'd add all those unique inscriptions such as the date or score or opponent. you can match those perfectly from the jersey in hand to the jersey in the photo so if that's the case it necessarily means favre was signing bad jerseys. i don't think it was rick radtke putting those jerseys in front of favre and taking those photos.

IF, purely for arguments sake here, thomason is behind it, then the notion of him spearheading a campaign to find the culprit isn't only impartial but it's clearly an attempt to divert attention away from himself. like a guy who robbed a bank saying he's going to lead the force into finding out who robbed the bank. noone suspects the guy leading the investigation right?
if you can control the evidence and information uncovered, as head of the investigation, then you can make sure it doesn't point to you. you can also name other suspects and, as head of the investigation, folks are going to believe you've got the proof to be right. purely hypothetical of course.

anyway, check out this oddity on that AMI favre jersey:



what happened to that poor hologram? looks like a squirrel got at it. of course, there's no mention of the mutilated hologram in AMI's glowing description. everything's sunny here in pleasantville folks, just move along. you'll notice from the favre pics that the holograms are added after he signs them. if you paid over $13k for a favre gamer, with favre letter and photo holding your jersey, wouldn't you take the utmost care with it and especially with that hologram? who attacks a hologram on a $13k jersey with player provenance?

rudy.

[lund6771]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

IF, purely for arguments sake here, thomason is behind it, then the notion of him spearheading a campaign to find the culprit isn't only impartial but it's clearly an attempt to divert attention away from himself. like a guy who robbed a bank saying he's going to lead the force into finding out who robbed the bank. noone suspects the guy leading the investigation right?
if you can control the evidence and information uncovered, as head of the investigation, then you can make sure it doesn't point to you. you can also name other suspects and, as head of the investigation, folks are going to believe you've got the proof to be right. purely hypothetical of course.

rudy.

Reminds me of OJ looking for the REAL killer...sure

Radtke is a good guy and I'd be surprised if he knew anything about this scandel

And who is Thomason's crew going to investigate?...himself?...as usual, smells like greed to me

Great article by Nerat...hopefully SCD will continue to persue the interview wih Thomason...if Thomason continues to dodge interviews, hopefully the Attorney General will be getting this info as well....

this will be a very interesting story to follow

Maybe SCD can do an expose on Coach's Corner next and start gaining respect as "the hobby's oldest and largest publication" instead of a being regarded as a sell-out

[gwh11]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Rudy introduced the AMI Favre Wildcard jersey to the thread, so...

Please take a look at the attached pictures. They are
from the '03 Seahawks-Pack playoff game.

Compare where the NFL shield is sewn on the front
collar. It's lower on the AMI jersey.

Compare the amount of space between the top of the
nameplate on the back and the lowest part of the
collar striping. There's more space on the AMI jersey.
That's because the jersey is larger than a size 52.

Compare where the front number 4 is located in
relation to the tip of the NFL shield on the collar.
Different location on the AMI jersey.

Also, Favre didn't change jerseys at halftime. I've
included a photo of him putting a hat on the sidelines
as the 3rd quarter starts. His jersey is dirty.

Guy

[indyred]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

Also, on AMI Favre jersey. Anyone else think the jersey that Favre is holding in the picture is different than the one in the auction? I wonder who won that jersey for almost 13 large. Would love to see a close up of the photo of Favre with jersey.

[mvandor]

Re: Game Used Favre Story in SCD

The saddest part of this story is that Favre provides the best provenance out there, not much more you can ask for, personal numbered holograms, signature, even a pic holding the item. If you can't trust that, the lesson is you can't trust ANYTHING.