Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

[5kRunner]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I noticed that the "A" in LAMBERT on the short sleeve jersey is off, as well. The triangle inside the short sleeve "A" is significantly smaller than the triangle inside the "A" on the confirmed GU Lambert jerseys in your photos.

The "R" is different as well.

[aeneas01]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Originally posted by trsent: MEARS will answer questions such as the one you have made if you address it to them or they may answer it based on your posts on this forum... If there is a question about a MEARS LOA I believe MEARS will address the question...

a forum member asked dave (mears) the simple question: "did mears authenticate a short-sleeved jack lambert steelers shirt for mastro..." - dave (mears) responded, in no uncertain terms: "...please do not ask again for this type of information for the reasons stated as I will not provide it."

another forum member asked mears several times if they had used his research, without giving him credit, when they updated the "circa dates" several times in one of their lot descriptions (dr. j shoe, current mears auction). mears did not respond to one of the forum member's emails.

given that it was quite evident that mears did use the forum member's work without extending any credit or mention, i also asked mears about this. and i asked mears if they had issued a new loa based on the forum members' information or if they simply updated the "circa dates" in the letter while leaving the other information untouched. after not receiving a response from mears, i persisted and was given the run arouund. like the other forum member, i have still not received answers to my questions.

so again joel, although you appear to be comfortable speaking for mears i don't believe dave was simply whistling in the wind when he stated that mears does not like to answer questions regarding items in their database. consequently i will post my questions and concerns at the forum and mears can respond on their bulletin board if they wish.

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[trsent]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

a forum member asked dave (mears) the simple question: "did mears authenticate a short-sleeved jack lambert steelers shirt for mastro..." - dave (mears) responded, in no uncertain terms: "...please do not ask again for this type of information for the reasons stated as I will not provide it."

another forum member asked mears several times if they had used his research, without giving him credit, when they updated the "circa dates" several times in one of their lot descriptions (dr. j shoe, current mears auction). mears did not respond to one of the forum member's emails.

given that it was quite evident that mears did use the forum member's work without extending any credit or mention, i also asked mears about this. and i asked mears if they had issued a new loa based on the forum members' information or if they simply updated the "circa dates" in the letter while leaving the other information untouched. after not receiving a response from mears, i persisted and was given the run arouund. like the other forum member, i have still not received answers to my questions.

so again joel, although you appear to be comfortable speaking for mears i don't believe dave was simply whistling in the wind when he stated that mears does not like to answer questions regarding items in their database. consequently i will post my questions and concerns at the forum and mears can respond on their bulletin board if they wish.

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Robert, that is fine, but without asking Dave Grob yourself, you pass judgments about him and the company he is affiliated with comparing them to Lou Lampson's service, which I do not agree with and I have no problem stating such.

[aeneas01]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Robert, that is fine, but without asking Dave Grob yourself, you pass judgments about him and the company he is affiliated with comparing them to Lou Lampson's service, which I do not agree with and I have no problem stating such.

joel, i will repeat myself for the third or fourth time: dave has made it perfectly clear that he and mears will not discuss items in their database - the short sleeve jersey rudy asked about and which i've questioned is in their database. i have chosen to respect dave's clear position - yet you insist that i ignore his direction and contact him about this shirt anyway. i have explained my decision to you many times before yet you persist. dave has stated that discussing information accessible only to paid mears subscibers is unfair. i don't agree but, again, i have respected dave's request not to ask him or mears about it. but you continue to tell me that i should nonetheless contact dave about this shirt, about what he's already stated about this shirt. i think i've been perfectly clear joel. is there another way i can explain to you why i have chosen not to contact dave which you might understand? or are you simply stalking me with the hope this thread might be closed if you continue to ask the same question over and over while ignoring the response? actually no need to respond, i think many here already know the answer to this question.

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[aeneas01]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

You know, you try and give Lou and the auction houses the benefit of the doubt, but when you see auction houses refusing to pull a jersey on the actual player's say so where a clearcut issue is involved like this, mysteriously cropped pics to support an item, and obvious fantasy in item descriptions and LOA's, you really have to wonder what it takes to get a prosecution for fraud in this friggin' country anymore.

i don't know how one would go about prosecuting an "opinion" - perhaps if a blatant pattern of "honest mistakes" could be established. in a case like this, an authenticator could simply point to a photo like the one below and say "oops".



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[beantown]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i don't know how one would go about prosecuting an "opinion" - perhaps if a blatant pattern of "honest mistakes" could be established. in a case like this, an authenticator could simply point to a photo like the one below and say "oops".



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This MUST be Lambert...I see a #5 an the last name begins with an "L"....wow, there is photographic evidence that Lambert wore short sleeves!!!

Actually, that is David Little #50...

Keep trying authenticators.....

[Eric]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Gentlemen-

I wanted to step in here and offer my opinion about some of the comparisons here. I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson. They couldn't be more different as a matter of fact.

As long as I have known Dave Grob, his goal has been to share information with everyone in the hobby. Dave was the first expert to hop on board with the old game used forum site and offer his expertise.

He has continued to make that his priority at MEARS. Because he doesn't wish to share information for free which is available to the people who pay for a MEARS subscription does not make him Lou Lampson.

Lou Lampson has no contact information and does not justify how he comes to his conclusions. There is a world of difference.

I have enjoyed my conversations with Dave Grob over the years. We haven't always agreed, but we have both been up front with each other about the issues.

If your questions are about how MEARS came to their conclusions, then go ahead and ask them. And post the response here.

I am happy to read or responses here, or you can email me at ecky3@aol.com
Thanks
Eric

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I wanted to step in here and offer my opinion about some of the comparisons here. I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson.

Agreed. Not even close. LTC Grob makes himself available to collectors and seems to actually like answering questions. He is a thoughtful dude who wants to make the hobby better.
When I read an incorrect LOA from Lampson, I think to myself: "that's just Lampy being Lampy."

[33bird]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I agree too. Grob has always emailed me right back with great information about Reds game used items. Lampson is the worst of the worst. Come on.
Greg
biggamebird@yahoo.com

[kingjammy24]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i don't think anyone's questioning dave's character or his contributions.

he's posted lots of great and informative articles, for free, on the mears board. i'm sure he's also willingly assisted many collectors for free. all of that's great and speaks volumes.

which is what makes my experience all the more bizarre. i believe robert was solely referring to my single experience in asking about the lambert jersey, not about dave's last 20 yrs in the hobby. with my experience, it was simply an odd thing to have asked him merely whether mears had looked at an item or not and be told not to ask for such info. the irony of it all? www.100percentauthentic.com is a free, public database of all of the authentications that lou lampson has done for AMI. if i wanted to know whether lou's done any lambert authentications this year, i can go there and check out not only whether he's done it but also the results. if i asked mears the very same question, on the other hand, i'd be told to scram. dave's long trumpeted the importance of accountability and transparency yet it doesn't seem very accountable and transparent when someone evaluates an item and then refuses to say whether or not they've evaluated it.

rudy.

[aeneas01]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson. They couldn't be more different as a matter of fact.

can someone point me to where dave was compared to lampson? correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the following was stated:

"given mears' policy i guess it's safe to say that mears is pretty much like lampson in terms of trying to get answers about their findings and loas - explanations are simply not available. unless, of course, you care to pay a mears' membership fee to find out why they might have graded a jersey an 8.5, called it "sensational", and declared it a gamer despite no photo support whatsoever. as i've mentioned before, i would think mears would want to respond to questions regarding their curious decisions - promptly and free of charge. but what do i know. btw if lampson ever joined the internet age he could get in on this pay per view service as well."

if someone would like to make the argument that this is the same as singling dave out given his affiliation with mears, then i would have to respectfully disagree. so let's be clear, dave was not singled out and compared to lampson.

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[trsent]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Gentlemen-

I wanted to step in here and offer my opinion about some of the comparisons here. I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson. They couldn't be more different as a matter of fact.

As long as I have known Dave Grob, his goal has been to share information with everyone in the hobby. Dave was the first expert to hop on board with the old game used forum site and offer his expertise.

He has continued to make that his priority at MEARS. Because he doesn't wish to share information for free which is available to the people who pay for a MEARS subscription does not make him Lou Lampson.

Lou Lampson has no contact information and does not justify how he comes to his conclusions. There is a world of difference.

I have enjoyed my conversations with Dave Grob over the years. We haven't always agreed, but we have both been up front with each other about the issues.

If your questions are about how MEARS came to their conclusions, then go ahead and ask them. And post the response here.

I am happy to read or responses here, or you can email me at ecky3@aol.com
Thanks
Eric

Bravo, Eric - A genuine, honest post.

can someone point me to where dave was compared to lampson? correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the following was stated:

"given mears' policy i guess it's safe to say that mears is pretty much like lampson in terms of trying to get answers about their findings and loas - explanations are simply not available. unless, of course, you care to pay a mears' membership fee to find out why they might have graded a jersey an 8.5, called it "sensational", and declared it a gamer despite no photo support whatsoever. as i've mentioned before, i would think mears would want to respond to questions regarding their curious decisions - promptly and free of charge. but what do i know. btw if lampson ever joined the internet age he could get in on this pay per view service as well."

if someone would like to make the argument that this is the same as singling dave out given his affiliation with mears, then i would have to respectfully disagree. so let's be clear, dave was not singled out and compared to lampson.

...

So, you compared MEARS with Lou Lampson, I am sure this was an honest error when it was mentioned that you compared Dave Grob and Lou Lampson.

Your intentions are very clear and all the same.

I believe what Eric has suggested is that you email MEARS when you have a question about an item's authenticity and post their response here. I know, it appears some people would rather give trial to items before discussing the authentication with the authenticator, but at least you made an attempt to talk to the authenticator before giving them a public trial.

MEARS has never backed away from questions about items if you can identify the item. If you come to them asking for information only available to members on their web site - I can see why they do not wish to answer the question to a non-member. If you come to them asking about a blanket, blind accusation on a web site that doesn't identify the item or authenticator, I can see why the question about the Lambert jersey was not completely answered.

[commando]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

aeneas01,

If I were you, I'd try to contact MEARS. See if they respond. I believe you started a great topic, but the focus of it has gotten way off track because of this issue.

Instead of addressing how this jersey appears to be unworn by Lambert, and probably not issued by the Steelers at all, we now have a diversion that is focusing on other things.

As usual, thanks to aeneas01 for his outstanding research and knowledge!

[jppopma]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I always enjoy reading the information and evidence that Robert, Rudy, and others post on here. Even on items that I am not remotely interested in, it's a benefit to learn about the errors and signs to look for on these jerseys as they often bleed into the same problems on items I am looking at. Thank you guys for that.

Joel makes references to public trial and such before contacting them; however this is an open forum and each is allowed to provide their own evidence and observations. I don't think they are trying to be judge and jury in this or any of the cases. In the end we as buyers are the ultimate judge and jury on whatever we choose to buy. THEY are more like expert witnesses in that case, right along with any authenticator or others on each side of the jersey. In their defense, any authenticator or those in agreeance should feel free to post their evidence on these same posts.

If they question an item from Lou, Dave, or anyone else...we should just leave it at that. It's a question (often good question) and can be used by anyone to consider the piece. I don't think they are trying to destroy anybody maliciously; just sometimes an overwhelming frustration will come across. We all have those same frustrations and fears that something we may buy will turn out to be a fake!

[flaco1801]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i think i know why jack lambert NEVER wore short sleeved shirts. he says he might disclose it later..... he has a tatoo that says... (fill in the blanks)