Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

[commando]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[kingjammy24]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i think i know why jack lambert NEVER wore short sleeved shirts. he says he might disclose it later..... he has a tatoo that says... (fill in the blanks)

i don't see any tattoos.



rudy.

[trsent]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Robert,

Actually their database is only partially available even to mebers who pay a fee. You can see some information on the items they authenticated, but not the actual photos of the items authenticated to see if fonts were correct, tagging, etc...It pretty much makes it impossible to do your own due dilligence against their findings on a jersey.

Dave Grob did give a reason for this a while back:

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=378

Regards,
Dave

Dave, that link requires that you are a MERAS member to read, so I'm going to post the article since it helps with the discussion.

IMPORTANT CHANGES TO THE MEARS LOO LIBRARY by Dave Grob

This has been the toughest decision I have had to make while at MEARS since it will impact collectors. Since our inception, we have worked to provided useful and valuable information to both members and non-members. At one time we featured probably the most extensive tagging database in the hobby/industry. We made a decision to take it down when we found that others offering opinions for auction houses we were no longer working for began to rely on it heavily. Today we find ourselves in a similar situation.

In speaking with someone who has been involved in this hobby/industry for decades, it was brought to my attention that the use of the Letters of Opinion on the MEARS web site are likely to be used in a similar manner in the very near future. Unlike the information used by a much larger community of those working with bats, our information on uniforms has been built over time and at great expense. It is available for less than $1.00 a week. Subscriptions have always been such that they paid the cost of running the web site. In order to protect our investment of time and money, uniform LOO’s will no longer be viewable in their entirety. There will be no change in bat LOO’s since as I previously stated, the majority of individuals working in this field are working from the same information, most notably Louisville Slugger production information.

We will leave the jersey census information up as collectors will still be able to track items bearing a MEARS hologram but with no letter. We have found that on any number of occasions sellers seem to lose these letters when their item has been designated as Unable to Authenticate. There are currently over 4000 uniforms in the jersey census so there is still a great deal of information to be had. Should MEARS Members have detailed questions about a particular jersey, we will try to be as accommodating as possible in answering your specific questions.

As such, for any MEARS member who feels this change makes their membership no longer worth the money they paid, I ask that that they contact Troy at Troy@mearsonline.com and he will arrange for a refund. This note has also been sent via e-mails to MEARS members directly. Members have 45 days from the date of this announcement in order to re-assess their position and ask for a refund.

We will continue to write and publish information as we have in the past 2 ½ years, but we can’t allow ourselves to be taken advantage of by a segment of this industry who values what we provide, but it not willing to compensate us accordingly. At the end of the day, the real loser is the average collector who has used our information for the intent we had envisioned. The fact of the matter is the environment that exists today and the role we play in has changed dramatically. People who Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen have known for decades have made business decisions in the best interests of their organizations that have impacted Dave and Troy’s livelihood. The Bushing and Kinunen For Sales Section was a direct outgrowth of decisions made not to use the MEARS evaluation services. While this has been very successful, Dave and Troy should not be expected to physically and financially underwrite the evaluation efforts of those in the employ of others. I don’t expect the average MEARS member to like this anymore than I do, but I at least hope they can objectively understand my position.

Since this only effects those who have paid a subscription fee to MEARS On Line, some might wonder why I have also made this announcement public. I am doing this for a number of reasons:

1. To ensure that collectors who are considering signing up for MEARS On Line know just what they are or are not getting.

2. To offer some insights on the real nature of this industry as exists today.

3. To ensure that MEARS Members who may not have a current e-mail address on file get this information.

No hidden agenda here… no double talk on why we are doing what we are doing or some spin on how it will help collectors…the sad fact is that it won’t…but this “hobby” is an industry and a business…and based on the actions of others, we have been forced to act and react accordingly.

Dave Grob

Policy Director

MEARS

[CollectGU]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

"given mears' policy i guess it's safe to say that mears is pretty much like lampson in terms of trying to get answers about their findings and loas - explanations are simply not available. unless, of course, you care to pay a mears' membership fee to find out why they might have graded a jersey an 8.5
...

Robert,

Actually their database is only partially available even to mebers who pay a fee. You can see some information on the items they authenticated, but not the actual photos of the items authenticated to see if fonts were correct, tagging, etc...It pretty much makes it impossible to do your own due dilligence against their findings on a jersey.

Dave Grob did give a reason for this a while back:

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=378

Regards,
Dave

[flaco1801]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i think i know why jack lambert NEVER wore short sleeved shirts. he says he might disclose it later..... he has a tatoo that says... (fill in the blanks)

[jppopma]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I always enjoy reading the information and evidence that Robert, Rudy, and others post on here. Even on items that I am not remotely interested in, it's a benefit to learn about the errors and signs to look for on these jerseys as they often bleed into the same problems on items I am looking at. Thank you guys for that.

Joel makes references to public trial and such before contacting them; however this is an open forum and each is allowed to provide their own evidence and observations. I don't think they are trying to be judge and jury in this or any of the cases. In the end we as buyers are the ultimate judge and jury on whatever we choose to buy. THEY are more like expert witnesses in that case, right along with any authenticator or others on each side of the jersey. In their defense, any authenticator or those in agreeance should feel free to post their evidence on these same posts.

If they question an item from Lou, Dave, or anyone else...we should just leave it at that. It's a question (often good question) and can be used by anyone to consider the piece. I don't think they are trying to destroy anybody maliciously; just sometimes an overwhelming frustration will come across. We all have those same frustrations and fears that something we may buy will turn out to be a fake!

[commando]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

aeneas01,

If I were you, I'd try to contact MEARS. See if they respond. I believe you started a great topic, but the focus of it has gotten way off track because of this issue.

Instead of addressing how this jersey appears to be unworn by Lambert, and probably not issued by the Steelers at all, we now have a diversion that is focusing on other things.

As usual, thanks to aeneas01 for his outstanding research and knowledge!

[trsent]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Gentlemen-

I wanted to step in here and offer my opinion about some of the comparisons here. I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson. They couldn't be more different as a matter of fact.

As long as I have known Dave Grob, his goal has been to share information with everyone in the hobby. Dave was the first expert to hop on board with the old game used forum site and offer his expertise.

He has continued to make that his priority at MEARS. Because he doesn't wish to share information for free which is available to the people who pay for a MEARS subscription does not make him Lou Lampson.

Lou Lampson has no contact information and does not justify how he comes to his conclusions. There is a world of difference.

I have enjoyed my conversations with Dave Grob over the years. We haven't always agreed, but we have both been up front with each other about the issues.

If your questions are about how MEARS came to their conclusions, then go ahead and ask them. And post the response here.

I am happy to read or responses here, or you can email me at ecky3@aol.com
Thanks
Eric

Bravo, Eric - A genuine, honest post.

can someone point me to where dave was compared to lampson? correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the following was stated:

"given mears' policy i guess it's safe to say that mears is pretty much like lampson in terms of trying to get answers about their findings and loas - explanations are simply not available. unless, of course, you care to pay a mears' membership fee to find out why they might have graded a jersey an 8.5, called it "sensational", and declared it a gamer despite no photo support whatsoever. as i've mentioned before, i would think mears would want to respond to questions regarding their curious decisions - promptly and free of charge. but what do i know. btw if lampson ever joined the internet age he could get in on this pay per view service as well."

if someone would like to make the argument that this is the same as singling dave out given his affiliation with mears, then i would have to respectfully disagree. so let's be clear, dave was not singled out and compared to lampson.

...

So, you compared MEARS with Lou Lampson, I am sure this was an honest error when it was mentioned that you compared Dave Grob and Lou Lampson.

Your intentions are very clear and all the same.

I believe what Eric has suggested is that you email MEARS when you have a question about an item's authenticity and post their response here. I know, it appears some people would rather give trial to items before discussing the authentication with the authenticator, but at least you made an attempt to talk to the authenticator before giving them a public trial.

MEARS has never backed away from questions about items if you can identify the item. If you come to them asking for information only available to members on their web site - I can see why they do not wish to answer the question to a non-member. If you come to them asking about a blanket, blind accusation on a web site that doesn't identify the item or authenticator, I can see why the question about the Lambert jersey was not completely answered.

[aeneas01]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson. They couldn't be more different as a matter of fact.

can someone point me to where dave was compared to lampson? correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the following was stated:

"given mears' policy i guess it's safe to say that mears is pretty much like lampson in terms of trying to get answers about their findings and loas - explanations are simply not available. unless, of course, you care to pay a mears' membership fee to find out why they might have graded a jersey an 8.5, called it "sensational", and declared it a gamer despite no photo support whatsoever. as i've mentioned before, i would think mears would want to respond to questions regarding their curious decisions - promptly and free of charge. but what do i know. btw if lampson ever joined the internet age he could get in on this pay per view service as well."

if someone would like to make the argument that this is the same as singling dave out given his affiliation with mears, then i would have to respectfully disagree. so let's be clear, dave was not singled out and compared to lampson.

...

[kingjammy24]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i don't think anyone's questioning dave's character or his contributions.

he's posted lots of great and informative articles, for free, on the mears board. i'm sure he's also willingly assisted many collectors for free. all of that's great and speaks volumes.

which is what makes my experience all the more bizarre. i believe robert was solely referring to my single experience in asking about the lambert jersey, not about dave's last 20 yrs in the hobby. with my experience, it was simply an odd thing to have asked him merely whether mears had looked at an item or not and be told not to ask for such info. the irony of it all? www.100percentauthentic.com is a free, public database of all of the authentications that lou lampson has done for AMI. if i wanted to know whether lou's done any lambert authentications this year, i can go there and check out not only whether he's done it but also the results. if i asked mears the very same question, on the other hand, i'd be told to scram. dave's long trumpeted the importance of accountability and transparency yet it doesn't seem very accountable and transparent when someone evaluates an item and then refuses to say whether or not they've evaluated it.

rudy.

[33bird]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I agree too. Grob has always emailed me right back with great information about Reds game used items. Lampson is the worst of the worst. Come on.
Greg
biggamebird@yahoo.com

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

I wanted to step in here and offer my opinion about some of the comparisons here. I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson.

Agreed. Not even close. LTC Grob makes himself available to collectors and seems to actually like answering questions. He is a thoughtful dude who wants to make the hobby better.
When I read an incorrect LOA from Lampson, I think to myself: "that's just Lampy being Lampy."

[Eric]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

Gentlemen-

I wanted to step in here and offer my opinion about some of the comparisons here. I think it is absolutely unfair to compare Dave Grob to Lou Lampson. They couldn't be more different as a matter of fact.

As long as I have known Dave Grob, his goal has been to share information with everyone in the hobby. Dave was the first expert to hop on board with the old game used forum site and offer his expertise.

He has continued to make that his priority at MEARS. Because he doesn't wish to share information for free which is available to the people who pay for a MEARS subscription does not make him Lou Lampson.

Lou Lampson has no contact information and does not justify how he comes to his conclusions. There is a world of difference.

I have enjoyed my conversations with Dave Grob over the years. We haven't always agreed, but we have both been up front with each other about the issues.

If your questions are about how MEARS came to their conclusions, then go ahead and ask them. And post the response here.

I am happy to read or responses here, or you can email me at ecky3@aol.com
Thanks
Eric

[beantown]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

i don't know how one would go about prosecuting an "opinion" - perhaps if a blatant pattern of "honest mistakes" could be established. in a case like this, an authenticator could simply point to a photo like the one below and say "oops".



...

This MUST be Lambert...I see a #5 an the last name begins with an "L"....wow, there is photographic evidence that Lambert wore short sleeves!!!

Actually, that is David Little #50...

Keep trying authenticators.....

[aeneas01]

Re: Jack Lambert game worn jersey....

You know, you try and give Lou and the auction houses the benefit of the doubt, but when you see auction houses refusing to pull a jersey on the actual player's say so where a clearcut issue is involved like this, mysteriously cropped pics to support an item, and obvious fantasy in item descriptions and LOA's, you really have to wonder what it takes to get a prosecution for fraud in this friggin' country anymore.

i don't know how one would go about prosecuting an "opinion" - perhaps if a blatant pattern of "honest mistakes" could be established. in a case like this, an authenticator could simply point to a photo like the one below and say "oops".



...