Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

'77 Yaz: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=33846

'75 Yaz: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=41852

'75 Burleson: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=31117

'75 Burleson: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=31179

'75 Fisk: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=29367

'75 Conigliaro: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=29367

'75 Fisk: http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...2006/1057.html

'75 Yaz: http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=405&lot=891

'75 Conigliaro: http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=412&lot=556

'77 Evans: http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=412&lot=549

'76 Lynn: http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=611&lot=652

beantown: i'm not a redsox collector nor an expert in 70s era jerseys. from the yaz jerseys i've seen tonight, they were all size 42.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

"no flaco if we can go back to the 20ties for H&B how hard would it be to find records from the 70ties?"

why don't you try to get the mcauliffe records and find out how hard it is?
H&B chose to release their records after much effort and persuasion on behalf of several individuals. to my knowledge, mcauliffe hasn't released their records so it would be very hard to get them.

"Each and every act of fraud is punishable by no less than 1 and no more than 4 years in jail for each act"

so a certain delicious authenticator should be behind bars by now doing a 1200 year sentence. but he's not. how did that happen? ah to be young and naive again.

anyway, here are a couple of photos:




rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

no flaco if we can go back to the 20ties for H&B how hard would it be to find records from the 70ties?

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Yeah it is funny that an auction house or dealer would take the risk for a few thousand dollars because knowingly selling an item that is not what it is stated to be is fraud; and fraud equals jail time. Each and every act of fraud is punishable by no less than 1 and no more than 4 years in jail for each act plus restitution to the adversely affected party. So yeah to me their is no upside and only down side and with operation bullpen still going strong and nice shinny auction books and auction results it's easy to go back and see the bad items and lets not forget the FBI hit up the last National so yeah from where I stand what's the benefit to selling crap when there is enough great stuff to sell and make money on?

[flaco1801]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

yeah the auction houses are gonna lose profits turning away somewhat looking legit shirts.. wake up.... you are looking for printed sales documents from employees of mcaufliffe for proof... this is a joke right?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

It is just funny to me that every auction house & major dealer has not made the differential between blue neck trim and non blue neck trim

is it really surprising that professional sellers have not made a distinction that would reduce their profits?

hey lookie here, lelands didn't make the distinction between a canseco gamer and a scoreboard canseco and sold the latter for over $1200. http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=205&lot=1979

4 yrs later, they do it yet again!: http://www.lelands.com/bid.aspx?auctionid=611&lot=672

cha-ching! yet it is common knowledge amongst collectors that home jerseys with "2 90" labels were Scoreboard shirts.

i don't know what the story is on these shirts but i do know i can't remember the last time an auction house or major dealer added to the collective knowledge of the hobby. those guys tend to keep very quiet for a reason. yaz shirts are profitable..no need to stop the gravy train.

as for a company differentiating between retail and pro shirts at a time when there was no such interest, rawlings began supplying the majors about 25 yrs ago. they differentiated between pro and retail shirts by sewing the tagging differently. 2 sides of the tag were sewn for the retail tags, while all 4 sides were sewn on the pro tags.

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

So now we are using a new letter from the 1990ties as evidence that shirts could be bought in the 1970ties. Do you have a copy of this? What evidence did they provide that this was the case? Just because a news letter states something are we just going to believe it? If their is an interview with an worker from the company or records or 100% examples of this then tremendous but if we are to believe that the only difference is the lack of blue trim in the neck tag would a company actually do that 35 plus years ago when there was no collector interest and if they did it to the neck why not do it to the year tag as well?

[beantown]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

I've been in the hobby for close to 30 years and I can confirm Lon's comments that anyone could order jersey's directly from McAuliffe back in the 1970's which would explain why you see a relatively high amount of Hank Aaron Brewers tops as well as BoSox & A's star players from that time period.....I learned this from a popular newsletter entitled "Diamond Duds" which was a very informative monthly publication in the mid 1990's

Interesting...do you know if there was a difference in tagging with retail jerseys vs. game used jerseys?

[ironmanfan]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

I've been in the hobby for close to 30 years and I can confirm Lon's comments that anyone could order jersey's directly from McAuliffe back in the 1970's which would explain why you see a relatively high amount of Hank Aaron Brewers tops as well as BoSox & A's star players from that time period.....I learned this from a popular newsletter entitled "Diamond Duds" which was a very informative monthly publication in the mid 1990's

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

flaco if they got 8 shirts per year the 1970 why would any show great wear? That means they got a new shirt every 20 home & road games? The Sox back then you were luck to get 2 homes and 2 roads for the season. Maybe a Yaz or Fisk got more but not many other players.

To me it is just very hard to make a statement when you have no facts to back the statement up. Word of mouth is no better than an urban legend. Until someone has proof of what Mr. Lewis states I can not take it as a fact.


It is just funny to me that every auction house & major dealer has not made the differential between blue neck trim and non blue neck trim but Mr.Lewis says that it is a common fact amongst advanced collectors, so I guess numerous advanced collectors threw away thousands on the yaz, and williams in lelands and that lelands knowingly sold bad items?

I hope a major dealer or a collector more advanced than me and my 20 plus years of collecting chimes in.

[flaco1801]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

i believe lon when he says that..........if you look at the yaz jersey it looks brand new.. back then they got 4 roads and 4 homes for the whole year...i checked my 75 rick miller, it has the blue border and it has some great use.... learn from the ones that wanna share knowledge....

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Yes Mr. Lewis thanks. I tend to disagree with your position regarding the lack of blue in the neck tagging from 75-78 for Red Sox Jerseys being a tell tale sign of it being a retail but I do appreciate your info.

The fact that there are no order forms, no evidence of McAuliffe selling directly to the public other than "word of mouth" and no McAuliffe hoard of borderless McAuliffe jerseys flooding the marletplace I tend to think that it is a simple label varation.

This reminds me of the "strip tagged" argument on majestic jerseys in 2005 and we have seen traded players, late season call ups, players who swaped numbers where there is no strip tag but the correct wash tag and the shirt came directly from the player, team or steiner. I

[lon lewis]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Bosox, I believe I covered/ re-covered everything you requested in my response to your email.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

lon one final point you say after the "70ties" the jerseys did not contain the blue so that would mean 1980 on? So are you saying that McAulliffe went back and issued a 1977 jersey in 1980 without the blue can you please clarify as I am sure there are many collectors who would like to know.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Lon what about 1980 Tony Armas, 1977 Ted Williams, also Lelands past auction? Lon if this is in fact a fact and not your opinion can you provide information such as order forms a book that shows you could order them something more than a statement that would backup your position? Otherwise the statement is harmful toward pieces. If it is indeed true then wouldn't major auction houses know this and not make the same mistake for years?