My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

[LastingsMilledge85]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

In my eyes that is not style match, look at the piping above the Rawlings logo. The one on Manny is brown, while the one without Manny is black (At least that's what the picture looks like).

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

In my eyes that is not style match, look at the piping above the Rawlings logo. The one on Manny is brown, while the one without Manny is black (At least that's what the picture looks like).

Exactly... the STYLE of the gloves is very similar but it's not an identical match (Photomatch). There are just 2 pictures of Manny wearing this style glove in 2003 that come before Oct (playoffs) meaning over 150+ reg season games, ST games, workouts, etc without anything to go from.

[CampWest]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!



Two things concern me... The lace on the middle web off the index finger. The Getty picture the brown lace is on the "fingers" side of the white seam line, but in the acquired glove its on the thumb side of the white seam line.

Also the getty glove has a brown trim edge on the hand vent hole whereas the acquired glove appears to have black trim edge.

And maybe a non-issue but the thumb laces look longer in the getty image, but of course the difference could be another knot tied since that picture was taken.

I know you are not calling it a photo match, but I think it raises a question and disproves it as a photomatch, unless there is something else I cannot see.
Does it still qualify as a style match with those differences?

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Michael,

I was offered this exact glove in 2009 and I can prove it's not legit and has been altered since I have seen it. It's not from the sale where Phil went to Manny's apartment, did Phil tell you that?

Bobby

Bobby, you're killing me with the wait!

Please email me michael_benko@yahoo.com or post for all of us on here what evidence you have. I'm fielding lots of calls and emails from people that want to know and most importantly in this case I need to know. We've essentially retraced the glove back to Manny and it's only been with one owner after Phil and never offered for sale to anyone. Apparently it was still in the original bag up until last week when the photos were done. Even Phil has been reached for comment. Thanks in advance!

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Two things concern me... The lace on the middle web off the index finger. The Getty picture the brown lace is on the "fingers" side of the white seam line, but in the acquired glove its on the thumb side of the white seam line.

Also the getty glove has a brown trim edge on the hand vent hole whereas the acquired glove appears to have black trim edge.

And maybe a non-issue but the thumb laces look longer in the getty image, but of course the difference could be another knot tied since that picture was taken.

I know you are not calling it a photo match, but I think it raises a question and disproves it as a photomatch, unless there is something else I cannot see.
Does it still qualify as a style match with those differences?

Sure it's a style match... and a pretty good one for a 2003 glove. That was never the issue and you're correct when you say I never claimed it to be an exact photomatch. The "issue" here, and the only thing I've ever been concerned with, is that a well-known Manny collector from these boards said it's not legit, was doctored, has evidence, and was offered the same glove last year.

Do we really think Rawlings cranks out identical player-quality gloves time after time without even minor alterations? Someone actually sits down and hand crafts these. Maybe they didn't have brown piping around when the glove in question was made so they went with black. Maybe it was repaired or replaced post-use. To me, it's the same as the fact that no two bats are the same, or that ball marks and other mysterious markings may show up after photos were taken. I think it's a pretty major accusation to question Sportsworld and the small number of collectors that have seen this piece in the last several years without some pretty hard conclusive evidence.

[LastingsMilledge85]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

I thought style match meant it looked EXACTLY the same as one in a photo, but there were no marks or indications that it was the EXACT one to call it an actual "match?"

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Bobby, you're killing me with the wait!

Please email me michael_benko@yahoo.com or post for all of us on here what evidence you have. I'm fielding lots of calls and emails from people that want to know and most importantly in this case I need to know. We've essentially retraced the glove back to Manny and it's only been with one owner after Phil and never offered for sale to anyone. Apparently it was still in the original bag up until last week when the photos were done. Even Phil has been reached for comment. Thanks in advance!

Michael,

Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm still at work and will be home in an hour, really busy day for me. I apologize for keeping you waiting for so long.

Thanks,
Bobby

[CampWest]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Sure it's a style match... and a pretty good one for a 2003 glove. That was never the issue and you're correct when you say I never claimed it to be an exact photomatch. The "issue" here, and the only thing I've ever been concerned with, is that a well-known Manny collector from these boards said it's not legit, was doctored, has evidence, and was offered the same glove last year.

Do we really think Rawlings cranks out identical player-quality gloves time after time without even minor alterations? Someone actually sits down and hand crafts these. Maybe they didn't have brown piping around when the glove in question was made so they went with black. Maybe it was repaired or replaced post-use. To me, it's the same as the fact that no two bats are the same, or that ball marks and other mysterious markings may show up after photos were taken. I think it's a pretty major accusation to question Sportsworld and the small number of collectors that have seen this piece in the last several years without some pretty hard conclusive evidence.

I don't recall ever stating the glove was a fraud or not game used. I read a post from a well respected Manny collector claiming it was questionable and there are some inconsistencies between this glove and the only "style match" photos presented. I said nothing about Sportsworld or any collectors that have seen the piece. I don't recall making any accusations.

All I stated was that those inconsitencies would concern me if I was the buyer when combined with the concerns from the other Manny collector who flat out stated it was an altered fake. Its being stated that Manny only used that "style" of glove for a very short time in 2003, if he used that style so sparingly, I would not expect many many gloves with multiple variations in lacing locations and color to have been made for him, much less multiple variations of the same sparingly used glove to have been game used.

My sincerest apologies for offending you, sportsworld or any other collectors. Though I honestly don't see how I could have by just pointing out some lacing differences and asking a question for my own personal education.

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

I wasn't refering to you!!

I'm talking still about Bobby's claim and waiting to see what he has to say before moving forward...

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Here's the photos.....took me a while to locate them as I had to search my yahoo mail.

The glove had a Dominican last name(cant remember the name)written in silver pen which can barely be seen on the 2nd photo ring finger slot and also the MPR 20 was altered to MAR 24.

I showed this glove to a couple of glove experts and they both stated that Manny gets fielding gloves from different company reps, in hopes that he would use them and this was most likely given to one of his Domincan buddies for use.

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Wow! I can't say I'm shocked b/c you generally know exactly what you're talking about, but that's crazy right there. The glove was inspected and identified as the same glove. Thank you for mentioning this to me. The glove is being brought to Sportsworld to be shown to Phil so he can see firsthand. I don't think anyone had ill intent with this attempted transaction, but it's always a strike against the hobby when bad stuff finds its way in. Thankfully I'm not the only one here that's a bit disturbed and there are some guys that will hopefully get to the bottom of things. MB

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Here's the last name that was written.

[AWA85]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Not always good news to collectors, but this forum continues to amaze me with the helpful information and guidance provided.

Hope you get it all squared away!

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Wow! I can't say I'm shocked b/c you generally know exactly what you're talking about, but that's crazy right there. The glove was inspected and identified as the same glove. Thank you for mentioning this to me. The glove is being brought to Sportsworld to be shown to Phil so he can see firsthand. I don't think anyone had ill intent with this attempted transaction, but it's always a strike against the hobby when bad stuff finds its way in. Thankfully I'm not the only one here that's a bit disturbed and there are some guys that will hopefully get to the bottom of things. MB

Michael,

Couple of questions I have for you.......do you know the date Phil purchased this glove or when did the guy that sold you the glove purchase it from Phil?

Also, you mentioned that the provenance is from a very tight-knit group of private Red Sox/Manny guys that have some of the biggest authentic collections around. Can you tell me who they are or can you email me privately with some names?

Thanks, Bobby

[prosvr1]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Bobby please email directly about this glove
Thanks prosvr1@tds.net