Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

One last thing, everything I learned in the last two years about game used memorabilia came from here so big thank you to everyone!!!!!

Bill

[dcrules01]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Bill I do not know you but this has been a great thread and it has been very knowlegeable. I liked Pete Rose and always will no matter what. You have a great bat and a great story to go along with it.Congrats on both ends.Rose was far from perfect but any baseball fan had to love the way he played the game.Thanks for sharing ypour story.

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

A pic sent to me today from 9/11/85

[joelsabi]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

A pic sent to me today from 9/11/85

Depending on how much foul territory there is, taking a knee in the on deck circle can be negligent, as your reaction time is slower when on the knee.

I found a photo of Mike Schmidt in the batting circle in Old Veteran Stadium in 1985. I assume the dugout is on the first base side based on where Schmidt is looking.

I assume a parallel location occurred for the visitor on deck circle too. Looking at Rose's photo on the Beckett Cover I don't think Rose is on the on deck circle based on the different relative location from on deck circle to the dugout compared to the Schmidt photo. Maybe my rotation is incorrect as I am not sure where the photographer is located and the background objects is blurry.

Also what is the rectangle green object in front of Rose in the Beckett Cover? The object is chin high to Rose. To me it looks like a post of some sort.

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Depending on how much foul territory there is, taking a knee in the on deck circle can be negligent, as your reaction time is slower when on the knee.

I found a photo of Mike Schmidt in the batting circle in Old Veteran Stadium in 1985. I assume the dugout is on the first base side based on where Schmidt is looking.

I assume a parallel location occurred for the visitor on deck circle too. Looking at Rose's photo on the Beckett Cover I don't think Rose is on the on deck circle based on the different relative location from on deck circle to the dugout compared to the Schmidt photo. Maybe my rotation is incorrect as I am not sure where the photographer is located and the background objects is blurry.

Also what is the rectangle green object in front of Rose in the Beckett Cover? The object is chin high to Rose. To me it looks like a post of some sort.

Here is a better view. This is a pic of Alou in the on deck circle from 1993. If Alou was standing up, the Beckettt cover would be almost identical.

I've also included an overhead pic of the stadium so you can see where the photographers are compared to the on deck circle. The photographers at that time were on the right end of the dugout (visitor side).

[joelsabi]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Here is a better view. This is a pic of Alou in the on deck circle from 1993. If Alou was standing up, the Beckettt cover would be almost identical.

I've also included an overhead pic of the stadium so you can see where the photographers are compared to the on deck circle. The photographers at that time were on the right end of the dugout (visitor side).

Yes this looks like Alou in a same place as Rose. The object that I thought was a post seems to be a seam in the wall, the same level as Alou.

i was trying to figure out where the photographers are able to take photo from. make sense. thanks

To me this important to establish where he was photographed since I believe players normally wait in the on deck circle for their turn during a game and wait near homeplate behind the bp cage during bp.

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Just when you think this thing is going to fade away, I was contacted from a person in Ohio today who actually has a picture of Pete Rose with my bat in hand during a photo shoot. This person originally sold the bat to Steve Wolter in 1988 or 1989. Apperantly this picture is so good, you can photo match the 14 on top of the barrel. He said the bat is the exact same from the photos posted on here and deadspin. So at least we can eliminate the last 22 years of someone else corking the bat.

Needless to say this person was really excited for me and gave me some great info.

This person would like to remain anonymous due to the coverage of this story. Hopefully I'll be able to post his photo in the next couple of days.

Also, my interview with Ken Broo aired today if your interest in listening click the link below and download the 3rd hour from the show on 6/13. Listen to the callers after my interview, some are spot on. One note, I said that John Taube had a corked PR4192, but after the x-ray this was a false statment. I didn't know till after the interview, but John thought for sure it was corked.

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KenBroo.xml

Bill

[joelsabi]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Just when you think this thing is going to fade away, I was contacted from a person in Ohio today who actually has a picture of Pete Rose with my bat in hand during a photo shoot. This person originally sold the bat to Steve Wolter in 1988 or 1989. Apperantly this picture is so good, you can photo match the 14 on top of the barrel. He said the bat is the exact same from the photos posted on here and deadspin. So at least we can eliminate the last 22 years of someone else corking the bat.

Needless to say this person was really excited for me and gave me some great info.

This person would like to remain anonymous due to the coverage of this story. Hopefully I'll be able to post his photo in the next couple of days.

Also, my interview with Ken Broo aired today if your interest in listening click the link below and download the 3rd hour from the show on 6/13. Listen to the callers after my interview, some are spot on. One note, I said that John Taube had a corked PR4192, but after the x-ray this was a false statment. I didn't know till after the interview, but John thought for sure it was corked.

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KenBroo.xml

Bill

Bill,

Is this what Steve Mears meant about working on finding a photo?

"If we could find a photo of the number 14 on the end of the barrel, and photo match it without question to Bill's as was done with the knob "14", that would leave no question that that bat, on the cover of Beckett's magazine, photo-matched as the very same one Bill now owns, did in fact possess cork inside of it the moment that photo was taken"

http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/1209/100613_3_SMST_1276446534_1521.mp3?

Was the photoshoot of the new photo before or after the July 4th weekend?


Ken Broo kept on talking about the problem of Chain of custody and I think this upcoming photo is your smoking gun. It would be circumstancial evidence that the bat was unaltered from the time Rose had the bat in his hands until the time you tested it for cork. One of the callers mentioned about never find corked in a Rose cracked bat. If its corked in the barrell, its not likely that you have the bat cracked in the barrell area but rather in the handle area. What was the likelihood of a Rose bat being confiscated by an ump? Not likely.

Nice interview. Has your wife changed her opinion on your purchase?

Related:
Ken talks with Mike Hefner, President of Leland Auctions about Pete Rose's corked bats:

http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/1209/100606_1_KEN_1275844871_24011.mp3?

[yanks12025]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

I'm alittle lost, if the bat was used in a photo shoot wouldn't that show it wasn't used during a game or did you guys come to conclusion that the one photo is from a game and not BP. Thanks

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Sorry for the confusion. This guy purchased the bat in '87 or '88 then wanted to take a picture of Pete (at a meet and greet) with himslef and the bat in '88 or '89 (I'll try to verify the dates).

I guess the pose has Pete extending the bat so you can see the top of the barrel. I was told the top still looks the exact same.

There is still a 2 or 3 year gap between '85 and '87 of ownership, but it does prove the bat has been in the same condition for at least 22 years.

Can't wat to see the picture.

Bill

[schubert1970]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

[quote=joelsabi;204934]Bill,

its not likely that you have the bat cracked in the barrell area but rather in the handle area. What was the likelihood of a Rose bat being confiscated by an ump? Not likely.

quote]


Funny you mention this, my bat has a slight crack in the handle.

Steve Mears wanted a game photo of Pete using the bat showing the top of the barrel. This person just has a meet and great photo. Still can't believe he just contacted me out the the blue.

[tacprc]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Sorry for the confusion. This guy purchased the bat in '87 or '88 and then wanted to take a picture of Pete (at a meet and greet) with himself and the bat in '88 or '89. (I'll try to verify the dates.) ...

Bill

Yes, please try to verify the dates. Steve Wolter said that he bought the bat from this guy in 1996 per Ken Broo.

Also, please try to find out from whom he bought the bat in 1987 or 1988.

Thanks.

[tacprc]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

I just took a look at Pete's detailed batting log for 1985.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=rosepe01&t=b&year=1985

I just don't see at what point he would have really panicked and started using a corked bat.

Remember that Pete was a 24-year veteran and had battled through many bad weeks at the plate.

Remember also that Pete batted .365 for the last six weeks of the 1984 season -- after he returned to the Reds from the Expos -- so he knew that he still could hit major league pitching even at 43 years of age.

Let's assume for now that Rose never used a corked bat prior to the 1985 season, and his bat speed from 1963-84 was sufficient that he didn't need one. Prior to 1985 I have never heard of a Pete Rose corked bat in the collecting hobby. Moreover, prior to 1985 he always used an ash-colored bat -- with the exception of spring training (and possibly possibly the first six weeks) of 1981 when he used a pink Mizuno bat -- and it would have been harder to hide the corking.

[Mark17]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

I just took a look at Pete's detailed batting log for 1985.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=rosepe01&t=b&year=1985

I just don't see at what point he would have really panicked and started using a corked bat.

Remember that Pete was a 24-year veteran and had battled through many bad weeks at the plate.

Remember also that Pete batted .365 for the last six weeks of the 1984 season -- after he returned to the Reds from the Expos -- so he knew that he still could hit major league pitching even at 43 years of age.

Let's assume for now that Rose never used a corked bat prior to the 1985 season, and his bat speed from 1963-84 was sufficient that he didn't need one. Prior to 1985 I have never heard of a Pete Rose corked bat in the collecting hobby. Moreover, prior to 1985 he always used an ash-colored bat -- with the exception of spring training (and possibly possibly the first six weeks) of 1981 when he used a pink Mizuno bat -- and it would have been harder to hide the corking.

Yeah, and I don't understand why a guy making a lot of money for a lot of years would throw it all away by gambling. I guess it's hard to understand Pete's mentality, can we at least agree on that?

It is a LOT easier to hide corking when you can re-paint the top of the barrel black, and then paint a white #14 over that. As opposed to clear wood, where the grain is easily visible.

By the way, a week or so ago you suggested everyone hold off reporting this story until Pete had a chance to give his explanation, which was supposed to come last Wednesday. Did he say anything? If so, I missed it.

[yanks12025]

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Another thing is with the gap of when Rose used the bat and the photo shoot, why would someone cork a Pete Rose back then. There was no reason for a collector to have corked his bat during that couple year period.