Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

**tacprc** · 06-09-2010, 09:25 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by STLHAMMER32

According to the seller of this bat. Pete was selling items 25 years ago.

I was talking about important awards; World Series rings; World Series and All-Star Game bats; bats, balls, and jerseys from significant games; etc.

However, it is true that Pete sold some of the items related to his 4191 and 4192 Hit games.

I have read that Pete sold to Greg Walker's father, Dennis, the S. Rae Hickok Award belt that he was given for being named the 1975 Professional Athlete of the Year by a panel of 250 national sports writers.

And he might have sold other significant items to Dennis Walker. I don't know. Greg may have a list.

In the late 1970's or early 1980's Pete also began selling his own uniforms, bats, and equipment. However, it might have been the case that friends of Pete, like Whitie Willenborg, were really driving the business in order to enrich themselves. I don't know.

**33bird** · 06-09-2010, 09:40 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

My dad bought most of Pete Rose's stuff back in the mid-80s. He was master of ceremonies at the opening of my dad's sports museum in Medford, Oregon back in 1984 or 85. I'm gonna get the inventory list from my mom soon of what he had in there, but I know he had many of his bats, jerseys, rings, baseballs, etc. and of course the Hickock belt. I know my dad believed he had the record breaking mizuno bat too, but I'm not sure that he did. Maybe Pete just told him that. It talks about it in this SI magazine back in 1989. I think it says 2 or 3 different thought they had the record breaking bat. I don't think Pete was always honest about what he sold to people. Just my 2 cents. This is the SI.

Attached Files

**33bird** · 06-10-2010, 08:32 AM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Now Zane Burns has one on ebay for 100k. The corked Mizunos are coming out of the woodwork now!

**rj_lucas** · 06-10-2010, 02:36 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Heritage is auctioning the jersey Rose worn for his 4000th hit, and after reading this thread, I had to chuckle when I read this in the Heritage auction listing:

"All shenanigans aside, Pete Rose stands alone as the game's most prolific hitter, holder of what is arguably the most important record in the sport. That's an honest, incredible achievement, completely unsullied by any misdeeds."

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

**CowboyJohn** · 06-10-2010, 02:52 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by rj_lucas

Heritage is auctioning the jersey Rose worn for his 4000th hit, and after reading this thread, I had to chuckle when I read this in the Heritage auction listing:

"All shenanigans aside, Pete Rose stands alone as the game's most prolific hitter, holder of what is arguably the most important record in the sport. That's an honest, incredible achievement, completely unsullied by any misdeeds."

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

Ouch...

Obviously that description was written before Bill's post hit and became public.

I think this is kind of a good time to revisit a thread from last year, close to this time.... post 45 would be a fairly good starting point, and shed a bit of insight into some of the posts on this thread. Link below...

Game Used Forums

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=27898&page=5&highlight=pete+rose+corked+bat

**STLHAMMER32** · 06-10-2010, 03:11 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by 33bird

Now Zane Burns has one on ebay for 100k. The corked Mizunos are coming out of the woodwork now!

Didn't even bother to cover this one up it looks like....wonder what the story is behind it... Was it corked after the fact? Used in BP where it didn't matter? Or did he really just not care and used it in a game that way?

I saw a couple corked bats awhile ago that were claimed to be Sammy Sosa's. It had his number on the knob and appeared to be his writing...what was interesting was that it was a pro model bat only it did not have a name on it....There was just a blank area where the block letters or signature usually would be. Looks like he was cautious not to have his name associated with it but if I remember right the one that broke did have his name. Anyone remember for sure?

**tacprc** · 06-10-2010, 06:30 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

**tacprc** · 06-10-2010, 06:36 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by CowboyJohn

I think this is kind of a good time to revisit a thread from last year, close to this time.... post 45 would be a fairly good starting point, and shed a bit of insight into some of the posts on this thread. Link below...

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ose+corked+bat

I stand behind all my comments.

**CowboyJohn** · 06-10-2010, 06:39 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

I just got off the phone with Bill.

Any of you in the Sacramento area should immediately tune in your local CBS and ABC new stations. He just completed two interviews from his home.

They will be aired on the 4:00 o'clock and 5:00 o'clock local news stations (I believe channel 10 and 13, respectively) TODAY.

The news medias led Bill to believe that this will also be aired in San Fran and Los Angeles.

**schubert1970** · 06-10-2010, 06:43 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by tacprc

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

I'm not going to argue chain of custody, beacuse this issue with every PR4192, especially anything from Pete and stated by Greg Walker

But I will say that I stand by the words of Steve Wolter himself as stated in my LOA from him and signed by him. "This is one of the finest 4192 game used bats we have ever handled or seen. We guarentee 100% the authenticity of game use."

**CowboyJohn** · 06-10-2010, 06:53 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by tacprc

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

Chuck,

You come on here, against all reasoning and common sense, just to support a guy you apparently idolize, follow, document, etc. That's all good.

What I don't understand is your side of this argument. The chain of custody is going to be questionable for ANY PR4192 unless it came directly from Pete Rose. But here's the problem.

If a guy got the bat directly from Pete, what would he be gaining by then corking it, and selling it to someone else? He wouldn't have gained a thing by his handy work, so what motive or conspiracy makes sense behind an act of this nature?

**STLHAMMER32** · 06-10-2010, 07:31 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by CowboyJohn

Chuck,

You come on here, against all reasoning and common sense, just to support a guy you apparently idolize, follow, document, etc. That's all good.

What I don't understand is your side of this argument. The chain of custody is going to be questionable for ANY PR4192 unless it came directly from Pete Rose. But here's the problem.

If a guy got the bat directly from Pete, what would he be gaining by then corking it, and selling it to someone else? He wouldn't have gained a thing by his handy work, so what motive or conspiracy makes sense behind an act of this nature?

I could see someone corking a pete rose bat and then selling it as a corked bat to try and make profit off of it being a "Rare" corked bat. However why would someone cork a bat, cover it up with pete's 14 and then make no mention of it when selling....doesn't make much sense.

Defending an idol just as you would a close friend is admirable but at some point the evidence and stories can't all be some weird plot againt him. What would be the point? would it be to ruin Pete's perfect image?!

**CowboyJohn** · 06-10-2010, 07:36 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

tacprc,

Would you pease consider emailing me your phone number so we can chat? I think this topic is too important to litter with unfounded accusations against the original story breaker at DEADSPIN who truly did his homework, around the clock, for a few days, before breaking this story.

You can contact me at the email below.

Thanks,

Steve

stevemears@roadrunner.com

**tacprc** · 06-10-2010, 07:42 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

There's a big difference between Rose possessing corked bats and actually using one in a regular season game.

So it's important to try and find an example that went right from Pete's hands at home plate to another person.

For example, I have heard collectors say that Pete cracked his bat during an at-bat and then handed the bat to them in the stands.

Or photo matching -- including the barrel end of the bat -- might be a good substitute. That was Bill was trying to do.

Note: It's also possible that we're all naive, and lots of players use corked bats, or at least the players who can significantly benefit from using them do. It could be one of baseball's dirty little secrets. As Steve Wolter mentioned in one of his on-camera interviews this past week, MLB doesn't proactively check players bats. It only reacts when one explodes, or a manager lodges a complaint. That being said, Pete doesn't appear to have corked his bats prior to 1985 -- but I guess we'll see about that.

**tacprc** · 06-10-2010, 08:04 PM

Re: Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Originally posted by CowboyJohn

tacprc,

I think this topic is too important to litter with unfounded accusations against the original story breaker at DEADSPIN who truly did his homework, around the clock, for a few days, before breaking this story.

In my opinion, the deadspin columnist mis-stated when and how Steve Wolter acquired Bill's bat; totally made up the details of Mizuno's spring 1985 shipment of bats to Rose including the number of bats and their weight; and totally made up the date and location of the Bob Bartosz photo showing Pete holding Bill's bat.

I would challenge Mr. Petchesky to produce his sources on those details.

Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment