Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

[JimCaravello]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

Joel - I did not e-mail them and felt that I did not need to, as they have already commented on my original posts which included the information and questions on the Yaz bat. If they want to respond, they are more than welcome. If they don't, that's their choice. In reading the MEARS site, its clear they responded with comments they wanted to make about other things in my original posts and didn't respond on the Yaz questions. They read the Forum everday as evidenced by their posts over the last few months. Jim

[trsent]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

I just though the rules of Game Used Universe were if you questioned an item as being genuine you were to contact the seller or authenticator in advance of posting issues with an item.

I know not all authenticators are available to answer questions, but I do know MEARS has a web site, email addresses and phone numbers they can be contacted to question an item.

Part of the reason I support MEARS, they stand behind their service and they will communicate with individuals when questions arise.

[b.heagy]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

My question is for Joel. If you had any interest in obtaining this bat for your personal collection or for re-sale, would you be comfortable purchasing this item understanding what the letter of opinion states and what Mr. Caravello has pointed out. I am in no way trying to pick a fight or argue with you in any way. Just curious of where you would stand. Thanks for your time.

[JimCaravello]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

Hi Joel - I believe our rules indicate we should contact the seller ( not the authenticator ) which I have done and will post their response when they get back to me. In addition, MEARS as mentioned, knows about my concerns on the bat as they have read and responded to my original posts ( not on the Yaz bat specifically ) on their web site. Also - the authenticity is not in question - MEARS has already indicated this is a promotional bat with use not attributed to Yaz. The answer I am looking for is two fold - ( 1 ) why is this graded an A6 as it is clearly a promotional bat the player never used and how do you distinguish this from a legitimate factory ordered Yaz bat that grades A6 and ( 2 ) Why is Vintage marketing this as a game used bat that Yaz used in 1983?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Bill's question. Thanks, Jim

[trsent]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

My question is for Joel. If you had any interest in obtaining this bat for your personal collection or for re-sale, would you be comfortable purchasing this item understanding what the letter of opinion states and what Mr. Caravello has pointed out. I am in no way trying to pick a fight or argue with you in any way. Just curious of where you would stand. Thanks for your time.

Nope, I have owned two bats in the last few years and this one is not one I am looking for. Generally, I prefer bats with grades of A8 or higher from MEARS.

If the statistics matter, I have owned hundreds of jerseys over this period of time.

[b.heagy]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

Nope, I have owned two bats in the last few years and this one is not one I am looking for. Generally, I prefer bats with grades of A8 or higher from MEARS.

If the statistics matter, I have owned hundreds of jerseys over this period of time.

Good answer, I like it. Let's say it was one that fit your needs - would you spend your money on this piece. Yes or No. Thanks again for your time.

[RKGIBSON]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

It would be interesting to know how many items all of these authenticators flat turn down. Lets face it the authenticating business is out of control. I have had my issues over the past few years and suggested that certain experts letters are worthless, but they are still being used. I guess they just get up after a mistake, brush their ego off and hold out their hand out for the next dollar due, for a worthless piece of paper, that most collectors do not need anyway. These mistakes cost everyone involved but them, the best I can tell. A while back someone posted that AMI told them, "if your not comfortable, do not bid on this item", thats the best advice they could have given. I alway talk, or communicate, with the auction house or seller, and ask enough questions to satisfy myself.
It would be refreshing if these authenticators would state their expertise. I certainly would not send a 1960 football jersey to someone that is a baseball expert. I always supposed that was why a group of experts got together to pool their knowledge. Do you think that all of the experts in the group look at every item, or do they all lend their name as long as one guy says OK? It eviedent that the jersey in question was not looked at very closely. I think they give certain submitters a pass in questioning items, because of who they are or were.
Unless a item comes straight from the player or the team with documents, none of us know if any item is real. When I question a item the first thing I want to know it where it came from. If the auction house refuses to give some chain of ownership or source, we all should pass. When I look at the MEARS LOA when they say no provenance. Forget it.

Roger

[JimCaravello]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

One other tid bit of information on this Yaz bat that is very important. According to MEARS website, the following items should be subtracted in arriving at the overall grade of a bat:

( 1 ) No Factory records, but bat exhibits known player length, weight or model specifications ( - 3 points ) Our bat in question does not match the ordering records for Yaz and or the Red Sox. Matching Baseball Promotions is not matching factory records for the player

( 2 ) Use can not be attributed to examined player ( -1/2 to 2 points ) Mears has clearly said in the COA that the use can not be attributed to Yaz

Now - assuming we should even grade a promotional bat which I think is ludicrous, how does this bat grade A6? If you were even to take the aggressive and liberal appraoch in grading this bat, it would be 5 as the base grade for matching I don't know what - 3 ( does not match factory records ) - at least 1/2 ( use attributes don't match player ) , + 1 for light use for a grade no higher than 2.5 which is a complete stretch.........

Jim

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

It would be interesting to know how many items all of these authenticators flat turn down.

An interesting example of this is outlined on the MEARS website. Dave Bushing breaks down the flaws of a fabricated "1955 Hank Aaron Braves Flannel" that was submitted for authentication. The problems are outlined in detail; from the phoney tags, to the hand-cut lettering, to wrong number fonts. It reminded me very much of the 70s Superstar knits that we see regularly on eBay, with bad chain-stitched NIC, inconsistent year tags, etc.
It is worth reading.

[JimCaravello]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

Folks - the right thing has been done relative to the Yaz bat. Please see the dialogue below of my conversation via e-mail with Mark Redmond of Vintage Authentics. Thanks, Jim

Thanks - you definitely did the right thing and I applaud your stance on this item. Thanks, Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Redmond <mark@vintageauthentics.com>
Date: Monday, August 7, 2006 12:15 pm
Subject: lot 76
To: jcaravello@nc.rr.com

> Hello,
>
>
>
> The listing was an oversight on our part. We have pulled the lot.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Mark Redmond
>
> Co-CEO Vintage Authentics
>
> 866-304-3090 Phone
>
> 763-208-2890 Fax

[Eric]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

Another thumbs up for vintage authentics. People have said this numerous times around these parts- Mistakes are going to happen, it's how you handle those mistakes which defines your character.

Eric

[34swtns]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

And for the record, not ALL auto'd jerseys auctioned by NFL Auctions have applied numbers. I recently purchased 2 Bears jerseys and the auto's are clearly over the stitching.

[34swtns]

Re: Hines Ward Game Cut/Game Worn in Vintage Authentics

And for the record, not ALL auto'd jerseys auctioned by NFL Auctions have applied numbers. I recently purchased 2 Bears jerseys and the auto's are clearly over the stitching.

LOL. Maybe I should've started a new thread to make that comment as the original point of this post has been completely deviated from. I don't think anybody even remembers what this thread was originally ABOUT! Talk about meandering subject matter.........
Has anyone considered breaking up the forums by sport? 'Cuz me and the other (maybe) 3 people on this board who are primarilly interested in NFL items would dig not having an NFL discussion turn into another bizitch session about a freakin' BAT.
Just a thought.