Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

[ereyes]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Dave, i understand where you are coming from and read the entire article. It also state that to prevent from forming a contact you should post the terms of sale on the companies terms/conditions of use page. That's what i posted

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

I agree with the OP and Joel on this one. They should honor the prices. Yes they have the right to cancel any order but how fair is that? Many states and localities have laws that require merchants to honor the price on the shelf and how is this any different than going into Macys and buying something. Clothes, collectibles, tvs, etc. it does not matter they are all goods. Although since this is the Internet those laws do not apply here and Dave as an attorney I disagree with you that he has a legal remedy the TOCs are on the site they are pretty clear no court is going to say they aren't. This is a doing whats right thing rather than a legal issue.

There seems to be alot of glitches on the Steiner site and if they want to stop things like this from happening they should address that problem. And if they lose some money that is a great incentive for them not to let it happen again. As far as the items in question except for the Jeter item they seem like items that someone could reasonable believe were on blowout. Noone on earth is going to pay $1,000 for a Melky jersey not even someone in his own family the guy is no longer a Yankee and was nontendered by the Braves so who knows if he will even ever play another big league game so one could reasonably believe that was on blowout. Justin Christen is a soon to be 31 year old prospect who began last year in the Atlantic League and has career stats of zero hrs and six rbis in the big leagues and is currently in the minors. $750 for his jersey is a bad joke so again a closeout would not be a shock as people are not tripping over each other to buy his stuff. The ALCS base also was not likely flying off the shelves at $2,500 since only a select few people collect bases and it was not used in the championship round. Being that the 2009 ALCS is long over someone reasonably could have believed it was also on closeout. Even the Jeter item it could have been damaged in some way or the signature may not have been mint or whatever.

[kudu]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Though I see your point, I disagree with it.

That pretty much means that if we see a J. Bench bat on EBay with a BIN of $50 that we shouldnt hit the "Buy" button because its too good to be true. Clearly the seller meant a different price, right? Whether they did or not, 100% of us would hit the "Buy" button, yourself included.

What if Steiner was cleaning out inventory for a specific category for the end of the year and put them at awesome prices...but I didnt buy any because I decided to go with your theory of..."the price is too good to be true"?

Either way, this isnt the first time Steiner has had this problem. Fix it and we wont be having this discussion!

Sure you can hit the "buy it now", but the seller can refund your money and cancel the transaction. The seller may receive a negative feedback, but that was the their mistake. Essentially, this post is a "negative feedback" to Steiner.

[LWMM]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Dave, i understand where you are coming from and read the entire article. It also state that to prevent from forming a contact you should post the terms of sale on the companies terms/conditions of use page. That's what i posted

That's not quite true. The article suggests that the Terms and Conditions give the company the right to not honor the sale of a mistakenly priced item. However, this is only one step--and the most basic, at that--of what should be multiple to protect such an ability. As the article explicitly states, in fact, "Terms and conditions merely posted somewhere within a company’s website", i.e. the ones you reference, "are called 'browse-wrap' agreements and some courts refuse to enforce them unless customers validly and reliably assent to their terms." Beyond that (and I don't know if Steiner does indeed do this), the article urges companies to make customers actively accept the Terms and Conditions before ordering.

Even with that, I felt that the Terms and Conditions section of the article was really just the precursor to the main substance. What is really harked on is delineating between a customer's "offer" and "purchase". In essense, the formation of a contract is not delayed by the Terms and Conditions of a company, but rather by the way in which an order is structured. With the Amazon example, purchases are set up so that a customer wanting to purchase something sends in what amounts to an offer, which is then accepted (forming a contract) following a specific email from Amazon.

To recap: the article does not "state that to prevent from forming a contact you should post the terms of sale on the companies terms/conditions of use page". It suggests that one do so to limit liability, but gives other measures to prevent the contract from immediately being formed following an order.




However, all this is really a non-issue: it's not as if anyone's threatening litigation, and getting weighed down in the legal mumbo jumbo is tangential and perhaps even captious. In fact, it's also not your job. What's more important, and I think the intent of pjbmd in posting, is the moral issue here. I'd also be curious to know, ereyes, if you actually could autonomously agree to honor the prices, or if someone else would first have to sign off on doing so; it would just help to know exactly who we're talking to/about here.

Personally, I think it would be classy of Steiner to honor the prices, if not morally incumbent. At the same time, one does not want to have to second guess every good sale that comes up--nor does one want its customers to do so! Thus I think the ideal solution would be bringing those errors down to the point where they're so insignificant that one can either honor the prices, keeping everybody happy while having little affect on the bottom line, or cancel the orders, that action being unusual enough that it's shrugged off. Everyone understands that these problems happen from time to time, but when they become commonplace, they serve as a poor reflection on what can come to be seen as a tacky and mercurial company. After all, no company wants "if it seems too good to be true it probably is--so just don't bother" as its motto.

[commando]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Personally, I think it would be classy of Steiner to honor the prices, if not morally incumbent. At the same time, one does not want to have to second guess every good sale that comes up--nor does one want its customers to do so! Thus I think the ideal solution would be bringing those errors down to the point where they're so insignificant that one can either honor the prices, keeping everybody happy while having little affect on the bottom line, or cancel the orders, that action being unusual enough that it's shrugged off. Everyone understands that these problems happen from time to time, but when they become commonplace, they serve as a poor reflection on what can come to be seen as a tacky and mercurial company. After all, no company wants "if it seems too good to be true it probably is--so just don't bother" as its motto.

I agree this may be a moral issue -- but I think I see it 180 degrees from your perspective. If an honest mistake is made, or a computer glitch is responsible for an obviously ridiculous price on an item, I would personally feel like I pulled a fast one if I know in my heart this seller will be losing money (maybe alot of money) on the deal.

In a way, we have talked about this before in regards to how people act at ballparks. If an outfielder looks at a kid, tosses him a ball, and some other guys steps in the way and snags the ball, what just happened there? As far as I know no illegal crime was just committed, but in my eyes (and many others reading this), the guy basically stole the ball from that kid.

Regarding mistakes, they happen. It's not reasonable to expect any business -- or individual -- to be mistake-free. The other day I was surfing eBay and decided to bid on a wax box of baseball cards from the 1980s... I wanted to bid $20, but accidentally bid $200 (hey, it was three in the morning). Well, for this very reason, eBay allows you to retract your bid. I did just that, and all was well.

Everyone has their own opinion, including judges. But in regards to my personal moral beliefs, I will not take advantage of someone else's mistake unless they decide to honor it because they wish to.

I'm not gonna sell my soul for thirty pieces of silver.

[mbenga28]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

what about when Steiner lists on MLB Auctions an item that is simultaneously on sale on their website, then if the item get sold on their site the MLB Auction listing is removed even though there are bids placed. is that fair to those bidders?

[rose14]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Mistakes happen but lets get real here. Any reputable company that post something on their website rather correct or not should honor those prices. It was their mistake and it's called customer service. Steiner had a chance to make corrections before submitting it on the world wide web. It's called proof reading. Steiner making mistakes is something that seems to happen all too often and things like this make them look like a greedy and poorly managed company.

[1929tudor]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

I would think when a company puts something for sale or in an auction they would go back and look at it to make sure the price is right. Like the previous post it's called proof reading. When I list something on Ebay I go back and look to make sure it's priced right.

[mbenga28]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

since Steiner is dealing with the Yankees and their items are always in demand, why would they consider honoring an error price and lose out on a profit? sure, they might lose that customer and their reputation might take a hit but there are plenty more new ones who will replace him and pay full or close to full price.

[pjbmd]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

gentlemen
i appreciate all the feedback
some of what i am reading confirms that others would have felt the same way in this given situation

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

since Steiner is dealing with the Yankees and their items are always in demand, why would they consider honoring an error price and lose out on a profit? sure, they might lose that customer and their reputation might take a hit but there are plenty more new ones who will replace him and pay full or close to full price.

Who do you know that would pay full price for two of the items in question? Justin Christensen $750 and Melky Cabera $1,000? Regardless, it is called customer goodwill when it is the COMPANY"S FAULT they should take the loss. You go to Macys pick out a suit that sells normally for $300 go to the register and the guy scans the tag says ok that will be $50. You think hmm well ok it must be on sale awesome so you pay him the $50 and he gives you a receipt as you are walking out of the store the manager comes charging after you and says wait sir there is an error in our computer system that suit should not be $50. He gives you your $50 back grabs the suit out of your hand and offers to sell it to you for $200 which would be a 1/3 discount off the original price. Yes, someone probably would buy the suit for $300 in the future but would anyone say that such would be acceptable conduct on Macys behalf? What is the difference here? They are both luxury goods being sold by major companies.

[mbenga28]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

if there are people out there that will spend $50 at FAO Schwartz on an action figure you can find at Toys "R" Us for $9.99, there will be buyers for anything regardless of the price. it may take awhile to sell, but ultimately sell it will.

not sure why you would compare Macy's with Steiner. the first major difference between the two is, if I don't like Macy's price or policy I can shop somewhere else that might also have the exact item at a better price. Is there some other company that has an exclusive partnership with the Yankees besides Steiner where I can compare prices and policies with?

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

if there are people out there that will spend $50 at FAO Schwartz on an action figure you can find at Toys "R" Us for $9.99, there will be buyers for anything regardless of the price. it may take awhile to sell, but ultimately sell it will.

not sure why you would compare Macy's with Steiner. the first major difference between the two is, if I don't like Macy's price or policy I can shop somewhere else that might also have the exact item at a better price. Is there some other company that has an exclusive partnership with the Yankees besides Steiner where I can compare prices and policies with?

Yes, the secondary market. There is plenty available of all players out there. For example, Steiner wants 13g for a Jeter but there is one on Ebay right now for 9.5g or best offer. Steiner wants 5hg for a Mo jersey on Ebay there is a signed one for 4.5 g. Alot of dealers have stuff at good prices from the Yankee-Steiner partnership as well, especially of the lesser players. There is always an alternative collectors and dealers who buy from Steiner do not hold the stuff forever, almost everything hits the market at some point. And I agree that often there are people who buy stuff for prices insanely higher than elsewhere but the demand at any price for some of these items is extremely low so it will take a deep discount to sell them.

[CampWest]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Mistakes happen but lets get real here. Any reputable company that post something on their website rather correct or not should honor those prices. It was their mistake and it's called customer service. Steiner had a chance to make corrections before submitting it on the world wide web. It's called proof reading. Steiner making mistakes is something that seems to happen all too often and things like this make them look like a greedy and poorly managed company.

And how many times has that story followed up with ... "but they agreed to sell it to me for a price in the middle"... ie listed at 250 shoulda been 750 so agreed to 500... Seems sorta potentially bait and switch tactics. I don't know that it is an intentional strategy, but they seem to misprice so many things that I have to wonder if it is intentional.

Conversely would they admit to an over-priced error that somebody bought? If the item should have listed something for $500 and accidentally sold it for $600, would they give the unwitting customer a price break before confirming the order or is the order confirmation a one-way street error? There are so many underpriced errors, there almost have to be some overpriced errors as well.

Anyhow, point being why hasn't Steiner found a control process to correct what seems to be an epidemic problem? Is it an intentional tactic to get people committed to purchasing something?

[CampWest]

Re: Forum Advice on Late Night Steiner "Sale"

Conversely would they admit to an over-priced error that somebody bought? If the item should have listed something for $500 and accidentally sold it for $600, would they give the unwitting customer a price break before confirming the order or is the order confirmation a one-way street error? There are so many underpriced errors, there almost have to be some overpriced errors as well.

If I bought this lineup card for $500, would Steiner cancel the transaction and say, oops, should have been $50, we totally hosed you?

http://www.steinersports.com/royals-at-yankees-9-29-2009-game-used-lineup-card

For the record, I side with Steiner on not needing to honor accidental mistakes, just curious if their "integrity clause" is a two-way street.

A couple days ago, I purchased an item for $250 on ebay... Seller stated they used the wrong template and it should have been $600 (which I could easily see they copied another item and forgot to change the price). I didnt know what "exact" market value was but knew I liked the item a lot at $250. I was gracious in their cancellation of the transaction and didn't fight it one bit. Though I wonder if they'd have admitted it if I paid $250 for a $50 item or been as gracious about me not paying if I realized the mistake later.