The ethics of flipping an item

[BergerKing22784]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

I understand and agree with the once its yours, your free to do what you want with it idea.

I cant really say ive ever actually hooked anyone up in the game used community in terms of a game used item at a great price at close to my cost or not because its rare I actually ever sell any game used items. The few that I have listed on this site were pretty much my cost if not at a loss.

I went to college and got my degree in business but I am a pretty crappy business guy. I am a way better "good guy" than I am business man. I always try and hook my friends, my peers up with the best deal and sometimes at a loss to myself.... I try and follow the golden rule and believe in karma.

Chances are if I knew one of you guys collected a certain player that I had no interest in and I happen to find one of their items I would pretty much sell it to you at my cost. Im not so sure everyone else would do that for others, a lot of people want to know "whats in it for me" . If I put countless hours of work in just for you thats a different story but if I just happen to say go to Orioles fanfest on Saturday and I find player X for $120 bucks and I happen to remember oh yeah Person A loves this guy and would love to have this item I would get it for them and sell it to them for $120.. That person will love the gesture and in the future it may comeback and work out for me and my collecting needs.

Recently on ebay the Negro League game Orioles vs Royals jerseys were sold on ebay and a focus of my collection Kevin Millwood was listed on there and the topic was brought up on this forum explaining that they were listed. I made sure to point out on this forum that Kevin Millwood is a focus of my collection in hopes no one would bid if they really really really didnt want it, if they could live without it. Needless to say I didnt win it (a fault of my own for not bidding enough but times are tough) I just hope whoever did didnt know I really wanted that jersey or they really wanted it for themselves that it would be a nice focal point in their collection and not just another hoarded piece of game used items.

If they bought it for the sole purpose of trying to flip it knowing there is a demand there by someone such as myself as I stated intentions and they knew I was interested in it I would be kind of upset if they ever offered it to me for sale for more than they paid. Yes its there right but I just hope nobody would do something dirty to another collector like that knowing that inside information. Thats just me though, Id never get into a bidding war with someone if I knew they really wanted it.

[MarinersFan34]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

Clearly a case of someone with zero interest in the item and simply looking for profit. Obviously it shows with the timing of the sale but that's how it goes sometimes. There are dealers and collectors that simply keep an eye out for a chance at profit. Some do it to further their business and some do it well, just because or to get a more positive cash flow, even if it is at the cost of their hobby friends.

Recently I lost out on an item I wanted very much but due to working massive amounts of OT I was not able to respond to email quickly and the item sold to a dealer, which of course now has it marked up. Had this dealer/collector not been looking out for just profits, I'd have gotten the item. Will I buy from this person now or in the future, most likely not. Previous to this instance though, I probably would have bought from them.

I know some will say it was fair game to anyone who saw the sale posted and you're right. But in the end when you know you've missed out on an item because the other party had zero interest in keeping it and just wants to flip it, it stings a little and that doesn't go away with how small the collecting community is.

[perlman9]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

a little off topic, but I collect small press horror books as well and there was a company that sold limited stephen king books. They used to do first come/first served and the same thing happened where dealers, etc who are at their computers, etc got firs shot. After probably receiving similar complaints, they started doing two things. One, was they held a lottery so there was a certain amount of days to get your name in, and if more than the number of books, they drew names. The second was they started sending out an email a day or two ahead of the actual reservation period to give collectors fair notice. Not sure how Meigray did it, but I have been happy with both those options and although no system is perfect, I at least felt collectors were given the same opportunity. But as always, there will be those who resell either to fund more purchases or to pay bills, etc.

Where I do have an issue is when a seller agrees to a sale price, gets offered more by someone else and then sells for a higher price.

[3arod13]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

Other than the below statement, which would piss me off also because you were doing a good thing for what you thought was a sincere fellow collector, I don't get what all the fuss is about.

If it wasn't for flipping, I couldn't afford most of what I get.

Nobody owes anybody anything. You own it, you do as you see fit with it.

Quote: "One instance where I could envision myself being mad about somebody flipping something I sold them is if somebody begged and begged for me to sell them something that I was reluctant to sell under the guise that they collect that certain player and had to have the piece for their collection, then turn around and flip it the next day, that would make me angry."

[jobathenut]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

gingi-Yeah i was following that thread also on there.And i think all the posters hating on this seller are way out of bounds.I am in the opinion that if its yours,then make that paper all you can.I mean its yours,so ask whatever you want.And i just have to say "gingi",i know this is not the point of what you are asking.But i do have to comment about something you said.That this is not a "top tier player".Well its not like its a nobody bench player,i mean that PAUL MARTIN might not be a crosby but he is a top tier player to me.But then as he played for me and my brothers favorite college hockey team i might be a little bias.And i think its neat that the seller has included the stick as how many people can say they have the stick and jersey.But i know what you mean, most of the time you have stick collectors and jersey collectors.I went to ebay where its on now and its up to $800 right now.So a a little more than what he paid for the jersey.

I know a few of you collect hockey gamers and if you do, the odds are you may have come across a squabble on another game worn jersey site regarding the immediate flipping of a jersey for very large profit. I'll start by giving you some details:

MeiGray does something I think unique to the hobby. They allow collectors to send in wish lists for jerseys you would be interested in obtaining. They have this list and allow people to submit their wants WITHOUT HAVING TO PUT A DEPOSIT. Now I don't want to go off topic too far here but you really have to admire the fact MeiGray offers this service. MeiGray will contact you, in the order a want has been received when said jersey arrives. Don't like the price, lost interest, can't afford it now? Simply pass and they move on to the next collector on the list.
So when the NJ Devils announced they would wear their initial NJ colored sweaters (Green rather than black stripes is the main difference really.) Devil collectors I am sure bombarded Barry and Co. with wants for specific players.

So now you know the back story even though it is not essential to the debate at hand. I thought it brought up a great topic for discussion (and admittedly some debate if we are open to listening) so here is the story:

The Devils wore one set of throwback jerseys in 2 games last season. MeiGray had a deal with them to obtain said shirts and market them to the collecting public. It is announced that the set is now available and that they will be contacting previously requested wish lists with first dibs. This is done, jerseys are sold, end of MeiGray participation.

Much like any other team, the NJ Devils have a lot of fans. Let's remember that the word "fan" is short for "fanatic" I honestly believe that while we are fanatical about our teams, the word was shortened because it comes off as a little insane, creepy and scary to say "I have fanatical emotions about this team!!!!" Due to the large pool of Devil fans and the very short number of actual jerseys worn, many people were not able to obtain the jersey they wanted at what I am told were extremely fair prices. Annnnd that's where the drama begins......

Almost 24 hours to the second after they were sold out, one of them was put up for sale at a price that was much higher than the published initial sale price. (There are small details I am omitting like the fact a photomatched stick from the same player and same game was also included and while it seems important, it really isn't relevant to the issue at hand. The player is not top tier and therefore while the stick would be great for a player collector, many jersey collectors have no interest in sticks and vice versa.)

If you are still reading and wondering what the point is, here ya go. I have a lot of opinions to share but I would rather hear yours first. I am going to ask that you NOT hold back your opinions because I think this is one of those major questions in our hobby that is never really answered successfully.

When is flipping a jersey considered unethical? Did the collector really do anything wrong? Do other collectors have any right to be upset?

[Jules9]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

Well the thread has magically been deleted, along with the Ebay auction post. Also the ebay auction has been stopped. I'm sure there are a few people that are going to make a mental note about dealing with this seller.

[jobathenut]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

Yeah, and the mental note i am making is how much for the stick as i want it.

Well the thread has magically been deleted, along with the Ebay auction post. Also the ebay auction has been stopped. I'm sure there are a few people that are going to make a mental note about dealing with this seller.

[jppopma]

Re: The ethics of flipping an item

Flipping an item is all about making money. Nothing wrong with that, whether it be at the right place at the right time or somehow being in the know....thats how it goes and I'm sure we have all been on both sides of that fence.

In this case, the person who got the jersey put in their request for it long long ago. Therefore they had first dibs on the jersey and to do whatever they want with it. They could have passed and the #2 request would have been offered the jersey. I think Barry was more than fair in doing this for these collectors and giving them a decent chance at the jerseys, which would have likely outpriced the buyers in auction.

Other instances of people flipping items are season ticket holders, being lucky enough to be at a game they put new gamers out for sale at, or being on a short e-mail list to get the deals sent to you.

It hurts to be miss out on an item, but there will always be more available. The only think I wonder about the whole "problem" people have with the original listing..how many of the complainers would have been interested in a Paul Martin at the original offering price to begin with?