I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

i've repeatedly stated that it's likely ortiz purchases jerseys to sell/trade. this was never a point of debate. the original issue in this thread was whether these jerseys are gameworn. i've reiterated the same position as the article that these jerseys are purchased, sold/traded, and not gameworn.
again, in short: yes ortiz probably purchases jerseys, yes he most likely trades/sells them. nothing about this is "unbelievable". what is unbelievable and what is the issue is whether these jerseys are gameworn.

as i said, there's a difference between ordering a jersey and wearing a jersey. if nesports wanted an unworn, unissued, ortiz-purchased jersey, then i don't think there'd be much to talk about.

rudy.

[CollectGU]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Below was taken from another thread on the baord. After reading the story, i think that Papi having extra jerseys for this very reason, as he is one of the most popular players in the league is indeed plausable:



Here's an interesting article on players who trade jerseys with other players.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi... ate=20060828

I knew this went on, but didn't realize it was so widespread. Adds a new wrinkle to the whole "game used" vs. "game issued" debate since it seems these traded jerseys aren't necessarily worn before being traded. I've been told that Pujols does this (I'd think his jersey is really in demand), but the jerseys he gives away are tailored differently than his gamers -- gamers have a straight hem, the "giveaways" have tails. I'm also aware of "gift jerseys" that have 6200 laundry tags. I've wondered if Majestic, knowing an order of a dozen jerseys is being made for player trading, intentionally supplies 6200 jerseys. It could explain why some "gamers" have 6200 tags. Who knows?

Jeff
http://www.birdbats.com

[trsent]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Isn't it possible that Papi ordered extras to trade with other players both home and away and has some in his locker...Why is this so unbelievable....

Soccer players trade, maybe Red Sox players trade.

[CollectGU]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Isn't it possible that Papi ordered extras to trade with other players both home and away and has some in his locker...Why is this so unbelievable....

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

nesports:
i'm aware that ortiz is free to keep whatever he likes in his locker. in fact, i even said that i agreed that a likely hypothesis may be that the 11 jerseys in his locker may be those that he ordered. however, you're missing two crucial points:
how can ortiz wear road jerseys if they're sitting in his locker at fenway? and
why is ortiz keeping road jerseys in his locker at fenway instead of in the equipment room where all of the other player's road jerseys are kept?

"Something tells me Papi put the extra road jerseys in his locker.."

why is he intentionally stocking his home locker with road jerseys he ordered? he certainly can't wear them at home, can he?

when the team packs for a road trip, the equipment staff fetch the road jerseys from the equipment room. for ortiz they fetch them from his locker? and then when they return, all of the bags are unpacked and everyone's road uniforms are placed back in the equipment room. yet when ortiz's bags are unpacked, his road jerseys are put in his locker? does big papi not trust the equipment room?

you think he ordered them, received them at fenway, then takes them on the road and wears them, brings them back to fenway and chooses to personally store them in his locker for some wierd reason? i can think of a more plausible alternative.

"He could have ordered a ton of jerseys to wear only one time.."
or he could have ordered a ton of jerseys to not wear at all. ordering "a zillion jerseys" is different than actually wearing a zillion jerseys.

"So what does that mean about the value of his jerseys?"
if ortiz is ordering boxes of jerseys then, as you said, "the money is not the issue. The authenticity is..". if you're a believer in occam's razor, then how's this for an alternate theory to the ones provided above:
ortiz receives boxes of jerseys at his home, doesn't bother taking them on the road, and every now and then brings a few from his home to the ballpark for his muchachos. the road jerseys he actually uses are packed and unpacked just like everyone elses and kept in the equipment room. ortiz is essentially operating a side business selling huge amounts of un-used jerseys, and that's why these road jerseys aren't with the others in the equipment room but rather in his locker (because they were never packed/unpacked for any road trips. they simply made the trek from his boston home to fenway so there'd be no reason to put them anywhere but his locker) and that's why they're coded 6200. i'm not sure why the fact that he may be doing this comforts you.

at the end of the day, it's you that has to be comfortable with your items. from the sounds of it, you're quite pleased so i think this thread is done.

on a side note, i'm sure your buddy looked great on the security cameras going through ortiz's jerseys examining each tag. some guy poking into ortiz's locker during a game like he's looking for spare change.

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey


Interesting comments:

In your earlier post you note, "I know someone that works for the Red Sox. (I'm not saying who.) I asked him to check out Papi's gamers. He literally went into the clubhouse during the game and read me the numbers from jerseys in Ortiz's locker.

Now you mention, "The Red Sox have very strict rules regarding employees so my “contact” actually can’t get stuff...Earlier this year a security guard asked Pedro Martinez to sign a ball... He was fired within an hour. notice all the surveillance cameras around the place. I’ll bet there are 200+ non-broadcast cameras in there now.

There used to be all kinds of equipment and jerseys coming out of there. Now there is not. Why? They hired a new guy that is like Big Brother watching over the place. He has clamped down on any possible tokens of appreciation that players could give to workers. There used to be a hazy gray area. Now it is black and white. You do X, Y or Z and you are fired. That’s it. No ifs, ands or buts.

Based on your most recent post, you expect us to believe your "contact" just walked into the clubhouse, stood in front of Ortiz's locker, and examined over a dozen jerseys inside of his locker (during a game no less!) to try to assit you in determining if your jersey was real? He did this knowing that an 8 year Red Sox employee was recently fired for asking for an autograph, knowing that there are over 200 cameras and an individual is roaming the place strictly looking for problems and crooks?
Did he happen to mention that he also took a quick dip in the Jacuzzi and tried a plate of the post-game spread, all before the 7th inning stretch?

You can't be serious!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[nesportspromotions]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

To Howard Wolf:
I am NOT trying to sell these jerseys. I am NOT a deceitful person. My game used expert buddy that knows the code “0062” said there was no way they could be game jerseys if they were “6200”. When I heard this, the first source I thought of and least embarrassing place for information is this forum. It’s an embarrassment to purchase bad stuff. I came to this forum first simply because I trust the people that post here. I trust there opinion and I TRUSTED the fact I wouldn’t be ridiculed here. (Well that trust is now gone.)

And by the way Howard the Red Sox are not the MARINERS. (That is not meant to be an insult to the Mariners.) In 2006 teams know a lot more about memorabilia and how to make their own money off it, (especially the RED SOX). The Red Sox will milk every penny they can out of that stadium and try to sell anything they can. For instance: the Red Sox themselves now sell game used bats at around 2 times market prices. In 1991 the world was a different place. If Griffey played for the Mariners NOW and your same contact set you up with him again Griffey would tell you to screw then tell the organization about your contact to ensure she would get fired.

The Red Sox have very strict rules regarding employees so my “contact” actually can’t get stuff. They are not supposed to ask for autographs or gratuities of any sort from a player. Earlier this year a security guard asked Pedro Martinez to sign a ball when he came in with the Mets. He happily signed it for him. This happened right in front of Larry Lucchino and John Henry. He was fired within an hour. He worked there for 8 years and got a 2004 W.S. Ring etc. He was fired for a single autograph. What do you think the odds are that Ortiz could sell a worker a jersey and the worker would still have a job? The Red Sox have just about locked down Fenway this year. Next time you are there try to notice all the surveillance cameras around the place. I’ll bet there are 200+ non-broadcast cameras in there now.

There used to be all kinds of equipment and jerseys coming out of there. Now there is not. Why? They hired a new guy that is like Big Brother watching over the place. He has clamped down on any possible tokens of appreciation that players could give to workers. There used to be a hazy gray area. Now it is black and white. You do X, Y or Z and you are fired. That’s it. No ifs, ands or buts.

BTW this bit you wrote is simply not nice:
‘I find your story about your "contact" a bit hard to believe. What I do believe is that you purchased a mint jersey that you have now discovered has retail tagging, and have created this elaborate story to try to make it "legit" in order to resell it.’

ALSO: Papi lives under different rules than the rest of the team. He gets what he wants. If he calls up Majestic and orders 81 home and 81 road jerseys all for 2006 it is now my understanding he’ll get them dropped off at his locker within 24 hours. He can have a zillion home and road jerseys sitting at his locker if he wanted. So what does that mean about the value of his jerseys? It can’t help it at all…

To Rudy:
Your pics you have posted are not from FenwayPark. Also the equipment manager is responsible for a lot of what a player has in his locker but they do not dictate EVERYTHING they have in their locker. Such as skin lotion, jewelry, cologne or 10-11 extra jerseys. If a superstar like Ortiz has extra stuff in his locker the equipment manager doesn’t confiscate it. Something tells me Papi put the extra home and road jerseys in his locker not the equipment manager. I can’t say 100% my jerseys are game used. The 6200 labeling puts doubt on it. But the fact that he has jerseys in his locker just like the two I recently purchased helps me feel comforted. He could have ordered a ton of jerseys to wear only one time and then give them to his boys to make some cash. No harm, no foul but they are just not all that rare. There’s a glut of Papi strip tagged 2006 jerseys now. The jerseys are probably worth a lot less that I paid but I feel better about them now. The money is not the issue. The authenticity is.

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. (Even Howard… but please try not to be so nasty next time.)

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

sylbry,
although i haven't seen many lockers, the ones i have seen have pretty much all been the same; street clothes, pre-game uniform (incl workout clothes + lots of tshirts), and the appropriate game uniform (usually a couple of sets of the same uni. eg: 2 road jerseys, 2 road pants, in case of damage, theft, etc).

11 game jerseys in 1 locker seems like a lot. the equipment manager and his staff, not the players, are responsible for having uniforms ready and laid out for each game. i'm bewildered as to why the redsox equipment staff put 11 jerseys into ortiz's locker for a game. what did they possibly think he was going to do with 11 jerseys in 1 game? as howard has stated, for the home team there's often an equipment room which is where road jerseys would be kept during home games. road teams don't typically bring their home uniforms.

having said all of that, i agree that one likely hypothesis could be that these were jerseys that ortiz ordered in order to trade/sell. however, what does that really say? that they weren't gameworn and were never intended to be gameworn? maybe that's why they all had the 6200 code?
rob, howard, and juan all gave great info regarding this practice. long story short, they said that players order these jerseys and they may, at times, not be completely correct. majestic may be sending customized retail jerseys, not exact player versions. if ortiz ordered 8 jerseys solely to trade, would you want one of these unworn jerseys that he never intended to wear? i wouldn't even call it a game-issue because they weren't issued to wear in a game. they were issued to sell or trade.

at any rate, in my limited experience, i haven't seen 11 game jerseys in a locker or road and home jerseys in a locker in a single game. (i don't understand why they'd lay out road jerseys during a home game or why they'd bother shipping home jerseys for a road series). i'd very much appreciate hearing other people's experiences regarding this.

since everyone loves pictures, here are a few lockers from boston and atlanta:



rudy.

[sylbry]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Wasn't there just a thread on players who trade jerseys? If the "Big Papi has 12 jersey's in his locker" story is indeed true could it be they are jerseys Ortiz signs or trades or sells to players on the other team? Maybe they were waiting in his locker for him to sign after the game for a charity? I am just throwing out some theories.

[worldchamps]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey



I found a picture

Bill

[worldchamps]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Remember the midget that Pedro would take into the lockeroom when he was at Boston, you would always see him on TV especially during lockeroom celebrations. Maybe he is the "inside source".

Bill

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Rudy-
Excellent point! I'm not aware of road jerseys being hung up inside of the home locker. The home jersey, pants, sliding pants, hat, batting gloves, bats, etc. are housed inside the locker. I can tell you that the Mariners do not keep the road jerseys in the home lockers, and up until last year, the Phillies did not either (have not seen this years lockers).

Rudy, excellent post.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

why would ortiz (or any player) have home AND road jerseys in their locker during a single game? if it's a home game, why are road jerseys in his locker? if it's a road game, why did the team bring home jerseys? anyone?

i've only seen a couple of lockers in my day and they typically only held bp jerseys and the uniform needed for that series. home jerseys never went on the road. road jerseys werent put into home lockers. i was once told by a batboy that the equipment manager would fill each locker with the jerseys needed for that specific game. why is the redsox equipment manager putting road jerseys in ortiz's locker during home games? i'd love to hear other's experiences.

thanks,

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

I agree-why would you ask for our opinion first, and then discuss this with your "contact" who can just walk directly into the clubhouse and dig around inside of Ortiz's locker?? Why would you not contact him first?

Sounds to me like you are trying to make your questionable jersey legit by now referencing some sort of "insider information" obtained from your "contact".

If you indeed have a Red Sox contact who works for the team and has total access to the clubhouse, why did you make mention in your initial post that "So I showed both jerseys to my buddy and he said the tags on the seams inside of the jerseys have the wrong number."????

If your "contact" can just walk into the clubhouse, I would have to believe he is in some type of position to secure a jersey directly from Ortiz, correct? You did mention that Ortiz's friends sold you the shirts, correct? If that's the case, then one has to believe that Ortiz himself would sell one of his 11 jerseys directly to a team employee, correct? Why would you have gone to the trouble of dealing with Ortiz's friends, when you could have worked a deal directly between your contact and Ortiz, or better yet, have your contact introduce you to Ortiz!

I have a good friend who works for the Mariners. Back in 1991, she was aware that I collected buy/sell game worn equipment, and as such, introduced me to Griffey Jr. and his "posse" who sold me several game worn jerseys, hats, bats, and a glove. I have to believe any person with a friend who has total access to a locker room would ask for such a favor or at least a chance to meet such a superstar and ask to buy a shirt, especially given the fact that you are aware of Ortiz selling his jerseys to the public.

I find your story about your "contact" a bit hard to believe. What I do believe is that you purchased a mint jersey that you have now discovered has retail tagging, and have created this elaborate story to try to make it "legit" in order to resell it.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[nesportspromotions]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

The original person I showed these jerseys to said there was NO WAY they could be right because of those numbers. "6200 is ONLY RETAIL" I knew nothing about the inside tag. I saw the strip tags and thought they were perfect.

My first thought was this forum b/c guys here know their stuff. I really thought I got screwed out of a bunch of money and was in a panic.

Once I saw replies that said some guys have seen some variance in numbering on those inside tags I thought there might be hope. Then I asked my Fenway buddy to see what goes on in Papi's locker.

Now I feel pretty confident they are real.