Is this ethical?

[Swoboda4]

Re: Is this ethical?

(1)Would it be proper to sell the jersey as a "don mattingly game worn jersey"?---- ( No)
What should it be sold as?----(You can't sell it at this point,for your sake and that of the buyer)


2) let's say, in this example, i purchase a jersey as "game issued" from a team or dealer. upon examining the jersey, i find obvious signs of wear. is it wrong to then turn around and sell the jersey as "game used" in light of this wear? -----(Yes it's wrong. You can recontact the seller to make sure it was described properly. Steiner recently sold a Mets BP jersey and it had a LOA describing it as game issued. It was a mistake,it was game used)

[staindsox]

Re: Is this ethical?

Joel,
Once again you're missing my point. This is not about business. It is an ethical point of view. I suggest reading Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience" or the writings of Thomas Aquinas. I think that might help you see where I am coming from. There are plenty of ways to line your pockets and still adhere to personal beliefs.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Is this ethical?

Staindsox: excellent answers, I have a few questions for you.

Have you ever sold anything for more than you paid for it? What did you do with the extra?

Suppose you DID find this incredible deal at a yard sale. you now own a $3,000 jersey that you paid 25 bucks for. what would you do with it? And please don't tell me keep it; someday you'll have to part with it. (OK, you keep it until you die; what do you instruct your heirs to do?)

Recently, a friend of mine was renovating her house, and she found several hundred dollars under the carpet in a closet. (in envelopes addressed to the previous owner, who is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's, doesn't know a thing.) the family is in the same town. what do you do? what if it was $100? 20? A buck seventy-six in change? At what point do ethics kick in over "finders keepers"?

Again, I'm not trying to be jerky with you in any way; i just would like to know what you'd do. (I'll tell you what my friend did later.)

Ken
Earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[trsent]

Re: Is this ethical?

Joel,
Once again you're missing my point. This is not about business. It is an ethical point of view. I suggest reading Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience" or the writings of Thomas Aquinas. I think that might help you see where I am coming from. There are plenty of ways to line your pockets and still adhere to personal beliefs.

Chris, so if you find $1.00 on the street you are saying you'll turn it into the police because it is a lost item. What about a $100.00 bill, same thing, right?

You are not being realistic with this discussion.

A lady came into the store Monday with a bag of old coins. I offered her $28.50 for the bag and she said, "Sure, I paid $5.00 for the bag at a garage sale Saturday".

Are you telling me this lady did something unethical?

What if I offered her $5000.00 for the bag of coins?

This is real life, if someone sells a Tom Seaver jersey for $2.00 they are happy to receive that price because it is what they were asking.

B2B DealerNet there is a story up about a lady who walked into a coin shop that was paying $10.00 for silver dollars. The lady walked in and brought a 1780s dollar and asked for her $10.00. The shop owner said to the lady, "I have to be honest with you miss, I'll pay you $1000.00 for that coin."

The lady replied, "If it is worth that much I am not selling it!".

You can discuss ethics all you want in these situations, but if you are going to not buy an item because it is priced too low, this has become a silly conversation.

Rudy's original question still has not been answered:

What if you bought a jersey at a garage sale that is properly tagged and shows signs of game use, how can you then sell it as game used?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Is this ethical?

robert:
"Would it be proper to sell the jersey as a "don mattingly game worn jersey"?---- ( No)"

why?

"What should it be sold as?----(You can't sell it at this point,for your sake and that of the buyer)"

why can't i sell it?

chris: i understand where you're coming from. thanks for your answers. oddily enough, this is what the entire PBS show "Antiques Roadshow" is based on. People come on the show with their bric-a-brac which they have no idea of the value and the "authenticators" either tell them it's worthless or its worth a ton. it's always some story like "i found this little painting in a store in arkansas. i paid $10 for it. what's it worth?" and the authenticator says "well madam this little painting is a vermeer and is worth $90k". curiously, most of the people don't seem to indicate they plan on returning to the seller to give them more money. i understand you feel that it's taking advantage of a person's ignorance. however, if you yourself aren't aware of the value at the time of purchase though, are you still taking advantage? ultimately, the seller lost money because they chose not to properly ascertain the value of their goods. conversely, you did all the work to find the real value of the item.

however, for the sake of the specific questions i asked, let's get away from any notion of monetary value or gain. i was more interested in making the leap in calling an item "game used".

again, if i find a jersey at a yard sale, listed simply as "baseball jersey $30" with no provenance whatsoever, and after authenticating it myself, i feel it's a perfect 1990 mattingly gamer, would it be ethical to then sell it as a "1990 don mattingly game used jersey"?
(is the issue somehow different if i sell it for $30 or $3000?)


rudy.

[trsent]

Re: Is this ethical?

again, if i find a jersey at a yard sale, listed simply as "baseball jersey $30" with no provenance whatsoever, and after authenticating it myself, i feel it's a perfect 1990 mattingly gamer, would it be ethical to then sell it as a "1990 don mattingly game used jersey"?
(is the issue somehow different if i sell it for $30 or $3000?)


rudy.

How about this:

Rudy, you can sell it as possibly or potentially game used with game issued or style tagging if all matches in your view.

[otismalibu]

Re: Is this ethical?

again, if i find a jersey at a yard sale, listed simply as "baseball jersey $30" with no provenance whatsoever, and after authenticating it myself, i feel it's a perfect 1990 mattingly gamer, would it be ethical to then sell it as a "1990 don mattingly game used jersey"?

If you researched it and gave a full explanation of your findings in your auction listings, along with some visual aids, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Now, if it's a style that no one can find a photo of him wearing, or a size that seems to big or too small, etc., then there's a problem. You'd just be doing the legwork. I don't really care what's on your letterhead, as long as you can support your opinion. Outside of those rare photo matches, aren't COAs simply that...an opinion? Often times, w/o a wealth of supporting evidence.

[ahuff]

Re: Is this ethical?

I don't understand why the jersey can't be sold as "game worn". Once a jersey passes from a player's back, does it really matter where it winds up? To me NO!!! Either a jersey is game worn or it is not. Does it have to come with a letter of authentication or one from the team to make it a real gamer? In this scenario, the jersey clearly matches the specs of a gamer and shows signs of wear. Does it really matter that the jersey went from Mattingly's back, to Steinbrenner's office, to his secretary, to her son, to his friend, to his mom's yard sale? I don't think so.

The ironic part, I thought, was that alot of people were saying to get it authenticated to make sure it is real. This goes against most everything that I've seen on this site.

As far as it being ethical to sell it for a huge profit, I don't see anything wrong with that, because it was being offered for sale. If that person's yard sale was anything like the ones my family has had, the person was probably just hoping someone would buy something from them. I'm more on the softer side, though, so if you feel like you need to give that person a percentage, than I believe God will look down and smile. That belief only holds true in this scenario. I believe quite differently if you knowingly rip someone off. When I was a young kid, I once saw someone come into a baseball card shop with a box of 1983-85 cards. This was when those cards were in their heyday. The kid had multiple rookies of Gwynn, Mattingly, Puckett, Big Mac, etc. This box was loaded (worth hundreds of dollars), and the dealer never said how much they were worth, but offered something like $5.00. I remember the kid didn't really want to part with them for that amount, but the dealer seemed to be forcing the issue. That is when I think a person crosses the ethical line. I told the kid the cards were worth much more than $5.00, and was quickly kicked out of the shop!!! I didn't blame the owner for kicking me out, but I do blame him for making a living taking advantage of kids. We all know that a person's got to make a buck, but do it in an honest fashion.

[staindsox]

Re: Is this ethical?

I'm sorry Joel, this has become a silly conversation if you would NOT turn in that $100 you found. My ethics go beyond finders keepers and I am sorry if yours do not. Read Thoreau and then we'll talk.

[flaco1801]

Re: Is this ethical?

there are 2 types of ehthics 1 for dealers and 1 for collectors. the dealers make their living buying and selling. when they make a bad purchase they rationalize that the the good deal ( maybe unethical to collectors) is fine, it just makes up for the bad one. it all evens out, thats the logic. they have to support their families too. dealers will buy anything, from anyone to make a profit, its how they survive. Jeff

[trsent]

Re: Is this ethical?

I'm sorry Joel, this has become a silly conversation if you would NOT turn in that $100 you found. My ethics go beyond finders keepers and I am sorry if yours do not. Read Thoreau and then we'll talk.

So when you find a $100.00 bill on the ground, say in a street in a busy metropolitan, you'd then turn it in to the police?

Who is going to claim it? Everyone and their mother?

I am realistic and honest, but a c-note on the street is open game.

Also, the $20.00 jersey at a garage sale is also open game to the first buyer. The seller choose their price to ask, end of story.

[jessicawinters]

Re: Is this ethical?

I cannot believe the guy is attacking Joel!! Thoreau?? Yeah, Joel, go read Thoreau, ONLY THEN are you allowed to post in the forum!!

The guy's ethics is warped. It's extreme. Does he know that cigararettes cause cancer? Beer and wine are intoxicants. How does he sleep at night without doing things help these poor people???

The seller is responsible for setting a fair price. There are other sellers that have their prices unreasonably high. Are we supposed to beat them up and make them reset their prices?

Also, we are talking about a GARAGE SALE!! You buy things that cost 20 bucks for a QUARTER! Prices are set to go, and it's anything goes.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Is this ethical?

I'm sorry Joel, this has become a silly conversation if you would NOT turn in that $100 you found. My ethics go beyond finders keepers and I am sorry if yours do not. Read Thoreau and then we'll talk.

Staindsox, perhaps I got something else out of Joel's post: what would Thoreau do about $1 he found on the street? What about $5?

Why didn't you reply to MY posting?

Ken

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Is this ethical?

And Why Do I Keep Finding Myself Defending Joel??

[staindsox]

Re: Is this ethical?

Thoreau has everything to do with this. For those of you who have bothered to read this whole thread, even though I might be in the right legally does not mean I am in the right morally. "Civil Disobedience" argues this. You are obligated to follow your personal morals. I think it is unfortunate that I am the only one here that doesn't live by finders keepers.